Someone please explain timing plays to me

[buddywilshire]

After four years of doing this, I still seem to get confused. Please no flaming.

[MPLSMatt]

What about them? A timing play is a play where any runs the precede an out count (aka the timing of the out and run is key).

[Umpire in Chief]

No flaming at Umpire-Empire period...

A timing play is one in which there is a potential scoring run and and the run may or may not score depending on how the final out is made.

It is a common practice with say R2 and 2 outs to signal timing play, but virtually any play can turn into a timing play.

R2 2 outs BR hits one to Right field R2 crosses the plate but F9 throws the BR out at first, no run scores.

R2 2 outs BR hits one in the gap R2 crosses the plate and BR gets tagged out at 2nd. Run scores.

These are the most simple of examples. Just remember if the final out is recorded on any player who is forced, no run can score. If the 3rd out is recorded on a non forced player it comes down to timing whether the runner touched the plate before the out.

[buddywilshire]

It is a common practice with say R2 and 2 outs to signal timing play, but virtually any play can turn into a timing play.

That is what always confused me, why wouldn't we call that all the time.

The rest of your info verifyed what I already thought. Thanks.

[noumpere]

That is what always confused me, why wouldn't we call that all the time.

You should signal it anytime outs+runners >= 3.

That said, I can't think of a non-third-world play where there's a timing issue with R3 only and two outs.

[24sdad]

Quick question to add to this...R3 and R2 with one out. Fly out to F8 with both runners tagging. R3 scores and R2 moves to third (but left early). Legal appeal at 2b and R2 is called out for third out. I was reading in 4.09 OBR about something similar, but i was somewhat confused. Does R3's run count due to the appeal and out followed his score, or does R3's run not count because the appealed infraction (failing to retouch) occurred before R3 scored?

Hope this makes sense.

[jnazz]

Quick question to add to this...R3 and R2 with one out. Fly out to F8 with both runners tagging. R3 scores and R2 moves to third (but left early). Legal appeal at 2b and R2 is called out for third out. I was reading in 4.09 OBR about something similar, but i was somewhat confused. Does R3's run count due to the appeal and out followed his score, or does R3's run not count because the appealed infraction (failing to retouch) occurred before R3 scored?

Hope this makes sense.

RUN SCORES. This is a time play. The play at second happened after the run scored.

[24sdad]

jnazz, thanks.

[ukce1861]

RUN SCORES. This is a time play. The play at second happened after the run scored.

Exactly right. The important thing to remember is that the time is of the appeal, not the play being appealed.

[yawetag]

You should signal it anytime outs+runners >= 3.

Bases loaded with 0 outs?

The only time I signal it is R2 with 2 outs, though I can see an argument for R1 with 2 outs (and even R2/R3 with 1 out). Anything else brings up third-world plays. If we get that involved, we'll be flashing more signs than the coach in the third base box.

[Umpire in Chief]

Bases loaded with 0 outs?

It is a third world play but you could have a 6, 3, 5 triple play attempt Where R3 scoring or not is determined by if R3 crossed the plate before the 3rd out which wouldn't be forced.... It could happen

[mstaylor]

It's not third world, saw it end a game, 6,4,3,5 triple play. If it hadn't been a game ender the run would have scored. It also was a perfect example of the BU covering all the plays in the infield. He got the DP then bounced back and got the call at third.

[carolinablue]

It's not third world, saw it end a game, 6,4,3,5 triple play. If it hadn't been a game ender the run would have scored. It also was a perfect example of the BU covering all the plays in the infield. He got the DP then bounced back and got the call at third.

WOW, can't picture how that would happen. Was it a routine DP on a grounder and they were able to turn it and throw R2 out a 3B, all before R3 scored. It would still be a time play, even though the out at third ended the game correct ?

[yawetag]

Sure, that's third-world, but are you going to give the "time play" signal with bases loaded and 0 outs?

[mstaylor]

It was a 6,4,3 DP and the runner rounded third and fell down. The F3 threw across to F5, the BU bounced back and got the third out. The run would have counted if it had not been a game ender. If it had been an earlier inning it would have counted. Actually I suppose it still counts and if had been a tying run would have sent it into extra innings.

[carolinablue]

That was confusing me a little. I didn't think it mattered if the game ended or not as to if the run scored. If the runner crossed before the third out to end the game, the run would have counted and could have tied or won the game depending on the score.

[catoblue]

Exactly right. The important thing to remember is that the time is of the appeal, not the play being appealed.

A little clarification on this one... retouching is not a force appeal, but on a force appeal for the 3rd out, it's not a time play.

R1, R2, 2outs. Grounder up the middle R1 misses 2B and reaches 3B, R2 scores.

Defense appeals that R1 missed 2B, appeal upheld, no run scores since the 3rd out was on a force appeal.

[mstaylor]

A force out is different simply because the rule says a run can"t score if the third out is a force or BR doesn't make first.

[Rich Ives]

It's not third world, saw it end a game, 6,4,3,5 triple play. If it hadn't been a game ender the run would have scored. It also was a perfect example of the BU covering all the plays in the infield. He got the DP then bounced back and got the call at third.

I think you're saying that the play ended the game and the run didn't make any difference in the outcome.

But it DID count and the official final score should reflect it counting.

If it was a tournament with some form of "runs allowed" as a tiebreaker you need to make sure it gets credited.

[Mr Umpire]

No flaming at Umpire-Empire period...

Why not? Can't we just spark the match a little then? I'm sure I can provide the fuel. And, I'm sure there are those who have no problem bringing the lighter.

[Mr Umpire]

Please no flaming.

What would make you think this? Have you been looking at some of my discussions on here?