MadMax

@Scott K, you should have plugged that you were coming to us Live from the Ump-Attire Dot Com Staff Kitchen. It would have been a hoot to see @JimKirk on a cameo, trying to use the sink after shoe cleaning, or list Jim (or Mrs Kirk), besides Mom, as who should not be finding a soiled sink after a cleaning session. It’s Pedag Cream? How does it compare to Kiwi? Is there something particular to it that is beneficial to these latest NB plate shoes?

Uhmmm... what? If I remember right, the Spartans of the movie 300 were "armored" like this: Yeah, those are some impressive... CPs. The point is, that the Schutt XV, the Champro Pro Plus, the Champion P2xx, the Force3 UnEqual, and even the +POS Cobra can all be considered "low profile" because they are using advanced, modern foams and are drastically reducing weight and bulk. The System 7 could be considered in this discussion as well, because every segmented plate is pre-contoured and engineered to fit in a conformed manner. I am probably the standard bearer for the Schutt XV, and its biggest cheerleader. I use no other CP (besides trying a few others and servicing / repairing just about every CP ever made), and you'll find me work plate games for MiLB Spring Training, college -level, Independent league, High School varsity (and upper echelon programs, at that), 18U Academy / Travel ball, and Adult -league (MSBL, NABA, et. al.). I've faced off against 95+ mph. What CP I'm wearing is the least of my concerns. I say this kindly, but bluntly – you know nothing by which to judge this, or any CP, against and claim it's not suitable for "college n up". Yeah, the old default harness was garbage, but anyone who claims that the XV is incapable of treading into the same environments that the "trusted" WestVests go has been duped by the marketing machine, and subscribed to a pack of lies. It is more than capable at all levels of baseball. The only reasons why people perceive it not to be is because it's half the bulk of WestVests, and it doesn't carry a big gold W.

The FM25 is a bit short at the bottom because it’s intended for catchers, most who won’t even mount a dangling throat guard, and who also routinely drop their chin on a pitch. It’s a good mask, but it’s not an umpire’s mask. But you’re playing with house money because you got it on trade. So, what I would do is get a primary mask, outfitted the best to what you can with your budget. Once you have it, then send off the FM25. Due to his workload, Tony cannot guarantee the return date, and you do not want to miss opportunities because you don’t have a mask. Carrying four is (admittedly) excessive – but umpires should carry two masks. Oh, and some of us are brand-nuts, but brand of ball bag is pretty meaningless. Just don’t wear two different colors of ball bag.

Yes, it’s a foregone conclusion a dangling throat guard is attached to a chinless mask like this. Mizuno offers several models as chinless, ready for umpires. Several umpires (butchers) take (perfectly good) masks and chop the chin guard off (how cruel!) so as to cleanly attach a dangling throat guard. The reason? Most masks are made for catchers, and most high-level catchers abhor wearing throat guards. Instead, they rely upon the extended chin guard and are disciplined to drop their chin (younger than 15 year olds can’t be expected to). As such, the rake (forward curve) on high-level mask chin guards is nearly straight down (an original Nike Icon Titanium is), and makes the mounting of conventional dangling throat guards problematic. You’ll notice that the Diamond iX3 family of masks address this disparity – the for-catcher iX3 has big, square ear guards and a rounded chin guard; by contrast, the for-Umpire iX3 (AKA the UMP) has an extended crown guard, tapered ear guards, and a chisel, square chin guard. Notice that this Diamond chin guard encourages umpires to mount the throat guard on the very bottom of the chin guard (not ideal). Mizuno is one of those few companies that do have umpires in mind.

Did a game between the Brewers (AA) and Team Taiwan the other day... and of course I start hob-knobbing with the bullpen catcher. There were four other catchers in the dugout / bullpen, with one wearing a Mizuno Samurai HSM, and the rest using Mizuno Titaniums: Bite-the-back-of-your-hand gorgeous. The bullpen catcher, though, was wearing one of these: ... except his was with sky blue / grey pads. I tried both out, but then we got to talking about the mask you're pointing out, this one: and the guys (the bullpen staff) were remarking that it's for a type of baseball (popular in Asia?) where they used a rubber-coated ball, much more like a lacrosse ball than a traditional baseball. Notice that the eyeport is narrower / shorter than the for-baseball typical mask, and the cheek spaces are barred off... is this rubber ball slightly smaller?

Today's Browsing through eBay found a Wilson Gold CP in very good condition: https://www.ebay.com/p/Wilson-WTA3210-Pro-Gold-Umpire-Chest-Protector-Black-Medium-large/1119110989?iid=292476340967&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D50074%26meid%3D0daec0fe7f364702b60d8b6d0e85a3d7%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D282874635516%26itm%3D292476340967&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851 It's a L/XL And I've always said, a Wilson Gold CP (like its Platinum sibling) is a good CP, and if you find one in good shape, use it. Just don't buy a brand new one at the exorbitant, wallet-gouging retail price.

Dammit, @BT_Blue, I read your post too late... My fellow Vulture just reported back last night – he was asked in to do a simulated game for Padres pitchers. When we're PU for these games here in Phoenix, we outfit ourselves with 2 ball bags (at least! I've been tempted to get a third!) so as to carry multiple ball types – Major, Minor or Foreign (I was PU for a game versus the Korean Nat'l team, for example). As they're prepping for the game, the ball tote (singular) is carried in and dropped at the backstop – all Big Leaguers, baby. Wide-eyed, my fellow Vulture fills his ball bags and heads to the plate, whereupon the first catcher hoists off his mask and introduces himself – Austin Hedges. Unfortunately, he doesn't remember the particulars of the mask he had (only one guy in the Vulture group needs to be the tech-nerd). Annnnnd Play! PS - Oh, and on that note, by being PU on these games, we are getting the chance to see (and try out!) some really top-notch masks. I held a FM4000MAG in my hands (it's like it's not even there!... but look at that Jay Leno chin!) and tried on several Mizuno masks that you just can't get here in the States, including a Mizuno Titanium. Yes, I'm gobsmacked-in-love.

Dave, you’re going to be my guinea pig... reading your post here, and your reason for wearing your shinguards what I call “cricket style”, is making me think up a way of supplementing the Force3 Ultimate shinguards with thigh pads. I kept looking at the latest Schutt XV-HDX CP with its new, fancy-shmancy bicep guards, wondering wherever I would use those. ... and now I just figured it out. Those bicep guards are D3O-lined, and if I can figure out a connector method, I might be able to attach them to a set of Ultimates to protect your thighs, especially above the knee. Oh, and @wolfe_man? My gut reaction is, if you’re using the mid-cut, taller NB plate shoes, you could get by with the shorter shinguards. That’s my opinion. However, the other rationale – that the additional length will over-protect the ankle area – is equally valid. I measure as a 17” in shins, and wear 16.5” Ultimates.

Pardon me, @wolfe_man, but you knew I was hovering around, waiting to descend and comment upon a topic like this (tech-speak carpet bomb it, yo!)... Yes, at one time, the Wilson WTA3007 and the Nike Icon in Steel looked eerily the same. Of course, the Icon was famously commissioned by and for Jorge Posada, and was executed in Titanium. That planform was further executed in Steel, and set the standard for all other single-wire masks. Because steel corrodes, though, it needs to be painted; because paint doesn’t molecularly bond to steel – such as it does with the powdercoat process – it merely clings to the surface and can be (and does get) knocked off easily by pitched or foul ball impacts... or when a catcher drops or flings his mask to the ground... or chucks it into the dugout bench in disgust... or drops his gear bag, with the mask in the bottom, onto the hard concrete, asphalt, or bus body. Powdercoating is a rather involved process, and does add some specific steps and cost to the overall process. Vinyl dipping, by contrast, is a barbaric, cheap-as-hell process and something that the sports equipment industry has relied upon for decades. When you burn away vinyl dip from masks, I equate it to burning / washing away past sins. Silvers and greys really came into their own as the novelty factor of the Nike Icon Titanium seeped into baseball. You can’t dip that metallic finish. Soon, Wilson was rolling out their own version of a titanium mask (to partner up with the WestVest Platinum), as were All-Star and Rawlings. And, any time there are premium masks at $200+, the cheaper steel lookalikes and knockoffs are not far behind. As far as the pads go, @The1yankee, pad technology hasn’t changed much in the last 100-or-so years (it really needs to). Sure, in the past 10-15 years, with the advent of microfibers – which can wick sweat away, resist abrasion, and can mitigate bacterial infestations – we’ve seen a challenger to leather, but there are still those who prefer (or tolerate more) the feel of leather on their face. Bi-color pads were introduced to showcase that the segment touching your face was, in fact, real leather and not the cheap, pathetic vinyl that companies would utilize to save costs. Indeed, for some time, tan was a color that vinyl just could not properly replicate (it looked really plastic-y, fake, and would lack the variation that organic leather naturally has). Because real leather pads involve organic leather, there is another organic material in the pads, acting as wadding or a shape layer – wool. Wool is a truly remarkable material, for it serves other purposes in the pad, but it does add a degree of energy absorption above which just raw foam provides. It does, however, add weight and bulk – which aren’t bad for a mask that needs to protect against a 95mph projectile striking it, but not the expected heft that a $200 mask is. Wilson identified that leather pads, with their imprecise shapes and propensity to shrink, would often leave parts of the mask exposed and potentially able to contact the wearer’s face during an impact. For this reason, they developed the Wraparound line of pads, wherein the mask bars are encased in leather, thus lessening the blunt, localized impact of steel-upon-tissue. So, there are vinyl pads, and leather pads, and microfiber pads, all using a foam core, encased in a liner jacket of wool or visquine or a synthetic liner of some such... ... and then there are Team Wendy’s. Team Wendy’s is a company built around one purpose – to reduce or eliminate Traumatic Brain Injuries. To that end, they developed a highly advanced (now patented) type of memory foam called Zorbium. It is exceptionally dense, with a slow crush speed and slow rebound speed. Because of their focus on headgear, Team Wendy’s has limited time, attention and resources to mask pads (and, unfortunately, to chest protectors) and can only offer them in black or tan. Perhaps the only flaw or shortcoming with Team Wendy’s pads is, oddly enough, in regards to climate – when the ambient temperature is on the chilly side, the pads can get rock hard. This tendency also materializes after prolonged use and the salt – from your sweat – crystallizes within/upon the foam. Laundering the pads (use a soap or tech wash, please!) helps resolve both problems. Back in Wisconsin, I would keep my mask indoors instead of in my gear bag until just before travel time, or would even go so far as to microwave the pads (off the frame!) prior to travel time if the game day temperature was... brisk. This isn’t to say that the other synthetic pads on the market are crap. Unlike TW’s, though, they have to achieve equitable energy absorption by volume (thickness). All-Star, +POS, and Easton (among others) make synthetic pads that are not only light, but provide excellent stand-off distance, and in a variety of colors. I use All-Star LUC pads on my Navy-rigged mask, while I’ve supplied +POS “AirFoam” pads to several umpire colleagues here in the Phoenix Valley (and I actually like these guys, so I’m not going to give/sell them garbage). I’ve also used the synthetic pads from Easton on their Speed Elite (one of the best masks no one’s ever heard about), and they work quite well. Microfiber pads get a bad rap because, for catchers, they get trashed after being tossed on the ground. An umpire’s mask should never touch the ground (so shame on you bozos who toss your mask on the ground so as to conduct the plate meeting)! Also, some cheaper microfiber pads catch face stubble (ouch!). I will never pooh-pooh an umpire for preferring leather over microfiber or vice versa, but my role is to simply explain and inform, and kick ignorance’s ass when it appears.

Here’s an idea for you, @The1yankee... Get a new harness for that mask. Get another set of pads, if you wish, but you’re under no urgency to do so, as those stock All-Star LUCs will do just fine. Use the mask on paid games until you can purchase another mask that will be your primary gamer-workhorse. Then send that FM25 off to Tony to get fixed and powdercoated. Tony will of course fix it. The part you bent is called the wicket (the other, on the upper, is the bullring). Tony has fixed no less than 6 of mine (my colleagues and I are doing 300-400 games per year). He’ll also powdercoat it for you, and on a FM25, not only will it end up looking hella-thin, but the sky’s the limit on color. May I suggest a color that would allow you to do navy games or black games? Maybe a silver, or liquid gunmetal? You can put black pads in it, or tan pads, or swap in navy pads if/when games are conducted with navy shirts (which, east of the Mississippi are far too often). Yeah, your primary gamer is rigged for games in black trim, and you use it 90% of the time, but once in a while, you’ll get that game where your partner has nothing but Navy, or the kids are known terrors and you don’t want to bend your primary gamer.

That’s not necessarily the case, @The1yankee. Some Wilson masks have “visibility issues” because A) Wilson DynaLites (Steel, AKA the Cro-Moly) are vinyl dipped, thickening the already hefty bars, B) other than their Memory Foam pads, Wilson uses a lot of leather pads. And, while they use rather nice leather, they make them like sausage casings, instead of the precision cut shapes All-Star uses. This makes for a bulbous shape when fitted to a mask, and C) this is especially true of the Wilson wraparound pads. The “face portal” is the same, it just looks smaller and more confined because those wraparounds are a-lotta pad! Best example is @umpstu‘s Wilson Titanium, using stock leathers versus wraparounds. It’s the same titanium wireframe mask, but why does the wraparound one look so heavy, clunky, and... odd? Hmmmmm... The +POS and Honig’s K-4 frames really are the best value for your dollar, primarily because they are sold as frames alone. The Honig’s is a real Everyman’s mask, with its generous sizing, discreet crown guard, oversized ear guards and short, forward -raked, square chin guard allowing you to learn, train, and be safe while making mistakes. The ZRO-G evokes the iconic Nike, but the forward -raked chin guard allows a dangling throat guard (which new umpires should consider using) and the cost – $40 – allows you to take it into places where you fear to stand with a Nike out of concern of getting it bent (see this?! This is why we can’t have nice things!!). Diamond used to offer their market-smashing iX3 aluminum as a frame alone. Ump-Attire even carried it! Now that was a great value! We could get an aluminum frame, with all their nifty safety features, and then get the pads and harness of our own choosing, for approximately $95. Wilson trotting out their version of an aluminum mask squashed that idea, because there’s more profit for them in a mask bundle, equipped with two-bit pads and a pathetic harness. The Nike isn’t for everybody. Remember, its origins lay with a catcher – a HoF (to be) catcher at that – who hated dangling throat guards and knew better than to turn his head. The Adidas/Reebok versions are using the same planform – we’ve confirmed as much – but there must not be anywhere the Quality Controls in place on these latest orders. That, and I think that these latest versions are using Titanal instead of Titanium.

Just buy a new HDX, and we’ll swap carapaces. Separate the pad jackets, you keep and use the new padding, and I use my existing padding in the new carapace. That or I’m sure there will be “old” stock, unaltered XV’s out there, eager to get moved now that the “proper” model is out on the market.

It's waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy too low'n'loose on you. Way too. Way. Too. (Made my point?) This isn't a Tummy Protector, It's a Chest Protector! The billow – the padding "collar" in blue – is supposed to be at or just beneath your Adam's Apple. Hike it up, soldier! As soon as you push it up, you're going to realize the two problems with brand new, conventional, segmented hardshell CP's – the harnesses suck, and don't hold the CP snugly enough to you, and the shoulder arch plates are not conformed or pre-shaped. They're flat. The only CP's that are pre-shaped are the All-Star System 7, the Champro Pro Plus, and the Champion P2xx. All the rest get... well... flattened out (the Wilson Platinum especially!!!). As the rest of the guys here know, even my vaunted Schutt XV (and the AiR Flex prior to it) needed to be shaped and contoured to fit me properly. So, bust out the heat gun (unless you are able to put your new CP in the back of your car during a 110º+ day, like we are here in Arizona!). I use an "industrial" paint stripping gun, but even a hair blow dryer will work. For this first time, if you can remove the padding jacket, do so. Once you do this the first time, follow-on shapings can be done with the jacket back in. You might want to get a rag, and place it upon the arch plate so you don't blister or dull the finish on the plastic. Apply heat. Once you feel it become somewhat pliable, you'll want to bend it, longitudinally (from front to back) as if it was bending over your shoulder. Don't pinch it or try to fold it, but instead curve it. Apply heat repeatedly until you get the desired form. Once you do this, take another rag, soak it in cold water, wring it out, then apply this cold rag to the formed plastic plate. This may take an afternoon. The desired outcome is a CP that fits you like, well, a glove instead of hanging on you like a shop apron.

My housemate, fellow umpire, and good friend is having an endless laugh over this. We keep looking at this latest XV-HDX, and the use of side-buckles instead of T-hooks (which I've modified a few Honigs K-1's and other CPs to use instead of T-hooks and velcro), and the mounting method of the rigger straps, and the general shape of the new harness... ... and I can't figure out why they used "HD-" instead of "MA-". Oh, why he's laughing? It's now his last name – Adams. "I git no respect" - Rodney Dangerfield.

@HCueds, @kylehutson, @tpatience (and the rest of you guys)... Here's what's not adding up – Why are we doing a 3D printing of a Mizuno Shovel? If you're saying, "Because they're so rare!", then we need to go one step further, and ask why they're so rare. "Because Mizuno doesn't sell them here in the States!" Okay, and why doesn't Mizuno sell them in the States? Because the Wilsons, Eastons, Rawlings, Champros and Diamonds of the industry have made it financially unbearable to market it here in the States!!! The unique "wow" factor of the Shovel is utterly lost amidst an endless sea of cheap, run of the mill, "shoehorn" throat guards! The purpose of a 3D printer is to prototype a product – to make a tangible product you can put in your hands and physically make the virtual idea a near reality. Sure, the automated technology can be put to a myriad of different purposes in the production process, and can do what @wolfe_man describes. The reason 3D printing is used for firearms, as Wolfe put forth as an example, is because the tolerances and variances can be much more precisely controlled when you 3D "print" instead of breaking the model down into components, molding and die-casting those components, and then assembling the components into the finished product. On a firearm that experiences the kind of uses and stresses that a product like that does, and fetches a price tag of $400 and up (keep going), it makes complete sense. On a single-component piece of shaped plastic that hangs off a mask, and you can get from a store for $4? Not worth it. Now, I'm not trying to rain on your parade. I'm all for having some novelty and craftsmanship in our gear, some "wow" factor. So, if we hold the Mizuno Shovel to such a high regard, why not identify what makes it "so cool", make a virtual model of it, adjust it and modify it to make it even better, then have it produced "locally" (here in the States) in a production run?

I carry four masks in my arsenal – 2 +POS ZRO-G's, a Honig's K-4, and an All-Star FM4000. The FM4000 is a very tough, very strong mask, but this very progressive geometry does not make for a typical, expected mask shape (and I mean that in all three dimensions). Keep in mind that All-Star is a catcher's company, first and foremost, and the FM4000 was designed for catchers primarily (not solely, but still). Some things that will jump out to you are that the mask is fairly shallow, and doesn't allow a hat to be worn, brim-forward (as it better be should for an umpire), with anything more than a 4-stitch. The included pads – All-Star LUC "AirFoam" pads – are good, but the forehead pad is a bit on the small side, simply because the mask is intended to be worn with a reverse batting helmet (the so-called "skullcap"). Also, there isn't room to mount a sun visor (unless your name is @Thunderheads ). The chin guard (what most colloquially call the "extended throat guard") is rather small as well, and that's because the majority of catchers are taught to drop their chin to receive / block a low pitch. What are we taught as umpires? Yup, to keep our head still, chin out. Now, with the shortness and forward rake of the chin guard on the FM4000, it's rather easy to mount a dangling throat guard, certainly. On that note, pay attention to how All-Star is guiding us as to where to properly mount a dangling throat guard; yes, it's supposed to attach to the bottom bar of the main mask body, behind the chin guard. No, it's not supposed to hang off the very bottom of the chin guard itself (way to be, Diamond you idiots). As you point out, it is a hollow steel mask, and uses I-bar construction on its horizontal components. This is to promote visibility without compromising strength. All-Star really over-engineered this thing. The only aspect that it comes up short on in quality is the paint – All-Star just can't do a real powdercoat process on these masks, due to the cost, so it's just a simple painting process they apply, and it does wear off rather quickly. Most (amateur) catchers don't really care, but if you're particular about the appearance of your gear, you will. You'll see the FM4000 out and about in the Major Leagues a lot this season, as All-Star used its planform for their elite-level mask, the FM4000MAG. Yes, the "MAG" stands for Magnesium, and the mask is a weld-less, die-cast Magnesium alloy. Eat your heart out, titanium. Here's your lunch, aluminum. That's not to say that Aluminum masks are bad masks – they're not. They're quite good, as long as the welds don't pop... ... oh. Ohhhhh... Yeah, that's been happening to Wilson Aluminum DynaLites. Because aluminum doesn't bend, all that resonant energy has to go someplace, and the welds are the first things to fail, especially if they're just stamped out, pell-mell, by some factory in China. When I pay $40 for a mask frame, whether it be aluminum or hollow steel, and then buy $40 pads (Team Wendys), a $12 harness, and a $10 sun visor, and my mask bends, am I going to be all that upset about it? Nah, not really... it's a $40 mask frame, it did its job. However, when I pay $110 for an aluminum mask – which is comprised of a (overpriced, overhyped) harness at $15, "Memory Foam" pads at $28, leaving the frame to be ... $67??!!) – which is not supposed to bend, and the welds pop... do you think I'm going to be upset?

No one needs to try this, because Force3's pads are made to complement the Defender mask frame perfectly. ... that, and no umpire other than the 76 Big League guys are operating under the Draconian Law that is the contract with the Big Gold W. Hoooooofah.

@The1yankee's post will be in blue: 1st. Yr ump doing HS Jv n under games. Some lil league also. So looking for the best price, by using sales, promo codes, free ship, u name it, in order to get some mid to almost high tier equipment. We understand budgets, and that we umpires are not made of money, but as others advise, don't compromise on gear relative to the contextual level you are aspiring to work. First, identify your context – you're doing primarily HS (you say JV, but you'll improve) and under. Second, Ump-Attire is one of our best resources, but not the only place to purchase the best deal on equipment and officiating clothing. If you/we identify an ideal piece for you, and you can get it through a less expensive means, do so. Places like Ump-Attire set themselves apart from the rest not on their prices, but on their back-end support and service. Best example? I bought my vaunted Schutt XV CP (more on this below) on da cheap from another webstore that had it for less than Ump-Attire. Why? Because I'll never return it, no matter what happens to it, because I'm a mad-modder and will fix it (and likely improve it) myself. I accept that. Where did I buy my New Balance 460V3 low plate shoes? Ump-Attire, nowhere else considered. Why? Because if something is amiss with them, I know Ump-Attire will rectify it. Almost 6'2'', 180 lbs. More tall slender build. Ahhhh... I was 180 lbs... for awhile, a while back. Hang on to that tall slender build as long as you can, kid. Not sure if size affects equipment, as I noticed west vest seem to fall about 1 rib short of covering rib cage. Is 12 inch the largest WV SIZE AVAIL? Would I want to look into a CP that fits a guy with a tall slender build like myself? Size does affect equipment. The size you're seeing on the CP's is in regard to their height, how tall they are, from the hollow of your throat – where your clavicles meet – down. The billow – the cushion you see on the neck of the CP – is not included in that measurement, but should line up and rest just beneath your Adam's Apple. So many guys get this wrong! How, you may ask? Because they're trying so hard to cover all of their ribs and abdomen with WestVests, they are pulling (or allowing it to droop) the CP down. The WestVest wasn't designed for abdominal coverage in mind! It was designed for Joe West, who was "just fine" with the default height of the CP that Douglas and Wilson presented to him... based on their football pads!!! Why do you need lower-rib / abdominal coverage in football? Point is, the tallest you'll ever find a WestVest, which is designed to end at the last joined rib pair, is approximately 13". Most other companies producing CP's followed along, and offer their products in similar measurements. A few do accommodate longer torsos, and offer them in 14", 15" and greater (see below). CP I'm not sure. Im in the market to spend around $140. Had my eyes on a WV gold or platinum. Opinions. WV GOLD 12'' $132 at epic, I think Why do you have your eyes on a WestVest Gold or Platinum? Yes, you're seeing it at $132 at Epic Sports, but that's absolute bargain basement pricing. Keep in mind, too, that that design hasn't changed, or been updated, for at least 10 if not 15 or so years. And Wilson still prices it on their own webstore for $200. What do people prefer MORE, in the WV CP, THE GOLD OR PLATINUM? Neither. Fine fine, you didn't want to hear that. The two models have two different origins and "secondary" purposes. The Gold is descended from the original Douglas / Wilson WestVest (not done conjointly, by the way). That original WestVest more or less set the standard for design of hardshell, segmented CP's. Since Douglas and Wilson are both football companies as well, it inspired two other football companies – Riddell and All-American – to jump onboard and offer models that were extraordinarily similar. As to who made what first or who copied who is unclear (at least to me), but in the Patent Law Court, Wilson "won" with the design of the Gold. Of course, the primary purpose of a CP is to protect an umpire from upper chest and shoulder impacts. But the secondary purposes – mobility, sizing, and how the segments go together – are somewhat important, too. You'll notice that the Gold segments the shoulder arches separate from the chest plate, joined by PVC splines, yes? Well, there are gear nuts that claim that that joint is a potential weakness, and doesn't provide adequate protection for impacts at the collarbone. So that's what the Platinum addresses. Whoever designed the Platinum used (again) the original WestVest as inspiration, but instead of segmenting the arch plates, extended them from chest plates up and over, arching to the back. These two chest plates are bridged by a sternum plate – just like an original WestVest. It's a novel psychological trick, and may provide more protection, but is likely is just a gimmick. If it was a legitimate, groundbreaking improvement... why is the Gold still around? Hmmmm... Anyway, from a gear-nut / gear-tinkerer's standpoint, both the Gold and Platinum have their advantages. The carapaces are rather solid, and the padding jackets are removable, secured via velcro tabs. The Platinum, in particular, because of how its constructed / assembled, can have its width adjusted. Yes, you read that right... because those two main chest-arch plates are joined with the sternum plate via rivets, those rivets can be destroyed, the plates can be moved in or out in width, and then simply redrilled and secured with new rivets or Chicago Screws. The primary disadvantages of the Gold and Platinum, however, are sheer bulk and lack of ventilation. Because of the crude means of producing the ABS carapace plates, they're far heavier than they need to be and lack any kind of ventilation holes. Then, because Wilson uses sofa cushion foam in their padding jackets (and refuse to change!), they are far thicker than they need to be, hold heat and moisture, and you look hulkier than you truly are and sap your endurance. And which is more low profile n looks better under your umpire uniforms? Best look for a trim guy like yourself? Champion P2xx, without question. It's no great mystery as to why the P2xx is being snatched up by every MiLB umpire who can find one. While they were brainwashed conditioned on the WestVest at umpire school as being the "only real CP you need", once they started to see the light read and examine the market (and check their wallets), these up-and-coming umpires realized that the Champion P2xx is one-third the cost, lighter, just as protective, "cleaner" (because it uses modern foam laminates, and transports heat and moisture instead of holding it), and... most importantly (to them)... is slimmer and trimmer than the WestVests, so you look slim, trim, athletic, and only need 1 shirt size instead of 2. The Champion P2xx and the Schutt XV (especially the new variant as the XV-HDX) are, pretty much, neck-and-neck in terms of best value for your dollar. They both are segmented-plate hardshell CP's. They both use advanced laminate foam pad jackets. The P2xx is narrower / slimmer, but offered in 3 torso lengths (P200 = 17", P210 = 15", P220 = 13"). Contrastingly, the Schutt XV is wider, and only available in a 13", but it is tremendously well ventilated with those massive 10mm holes, and it comes with an optional 4" abdomen extension included. Now, I would be remiss if I didn't mention the other CP's out there that either look really really snazzy under a shirt, or are very reliable and modern in their performance – the current Douglas CP, the All-Star System 7, and the Force3 UnEqual. I can (or someone else can) explain any of those three if you have an interest in them. I say this kindly – take the WestVest blinders off. If you have a WestVest, or get one passed or sold to you on the cheap, then "mazeltov!" and good health to you (you'll want to thoroughly clean it first; ever sit on an old sofa with complete confidence?). It will work just fine. But, if you really are asking and researching purchasing options, there are whole host of alternatives out there that are much better values and solutions. MASK- I have a Wilson aluminum dyna- lite, with memory foam pads, waiting in my cart for, $97 w/free ship and a 10% off code, online, at purchase officials Sure. It's a very good mask frame. You're not going to get any argument from anyone here. The mask itself isn't the variable in the equation – it's the pads. They're doing most of the work of protecting you. Leg Guards- Found a pair of 16"-17" WV GOLD leg guards $88, at bball monkey. Seemed like a great price for quality shin guards. They had the platinum guards for $60 at bball monkey, but sold out before I could jump. Seems that would've been a Great price on those! With you raving (justifiably) about the New Balance plate shoes (below), I'll caution you – both the Gold and Platinum shin guards from Wilson were designed many years ago, and haven't been adapting to the new styles of plate shoes. Not only are they, like their CP parents, clad in sofa cushion foam, but they are rather flat and contour-less. They also have big flappy toe guards and hard ankle plates, since they were made to be used with rather low, suspect plate shoes that resembled something more like a business shoe than an actual athletic shoe, much less a steel-toed work boot (as some of the New Balance MU460's, Reebok Magistrates, and 3N2 mid-cuts come off behaving like). The trend now, with Plate Shoes becoming more athletic (thanks Reebok) and protective, is to encase the ankle in fortified vinyl wings and eschew (leave off) the toe guards and caps. The bottom also terminates higher so as to allow you to bend your ankle and foot easier, and allow the mid-cut plate shoes to fit properly. Such examples of these new shinguards are the Force3 Ultimates, the All-Star System 7's, and the Douglas's. Even the Champro, Schutt, and Diamond models are decent. And, aside from the Douglas, each is using the new modern foam laminates to cut down on bulk, weight, and be barely noticeable under plate (or combo, for that matter) pants. Shoes- found the NB, white N style, plate shoes on eBay for $120 NEW W/FREE SHIP, Is this best price on NB plate shoes at the moment? Has anybody seen em cheaper anywhere? Do NB PLATE Shoes run normal, BIG, SMALL? I already wear NB running shoes for my normal everyday athletic shoe, n am a size 10.5 E or normal. Love that NB focuses on width in ALL shoes they produce. Soo...? Do I size up a half, or go, 10.5 like other NB shoes I've owned? Also have NB base shoes... As you identified, one of the great advantages of New Balance is their focus on not only length but a variety of widths. These length-width combination templates are known in the shoe industry as lasts, and New Balance has one of the most diverse arsenals of lasts in the entire industry. I'm a Nike guy, and have worn a size 11 in Nike and for the most part, a size 11 Nike fits me exactly the same from shoe to sandal to boot to shoe. I wear a 11 in New Balance as well, and the D (Medium) width is as expected, but in the New Balance 460V3, it has a bit more "wiggle room" in the toe box. It's a very welcome feature, as my toes don't feel smushed or cramped as I would think with a metal(?) toe cap. The foot arches do line up as expected, Nike to New Balance (which they don't in Adidas / Reebok). I probably will spend the extra for the nutty buddy. Does the NB cup, pretty much fit any compression short with a cup pocket? I don't wear all the extras. I wear Nike Pro Combat (compression) sliders, with the cup pocket, and just put the Nutty Buddy or Shock Doctor in there, and it stays. I had an original Nutty Buddy and liked(?... is that the right word for something protecting your junk?) it. I tried it in UnderArmour -brand sliders, and it didn't fit at all. So, back to Nike I went, and I have tried it in McDavid (it works) and Easton (not well) sliders in the meantime. As I said, I had a Nutty Buddy until I took a 10-pin strike to the wahoos that left a lovely purple ring around the plums. That hurt for awhile, and it just so happened that the founder of Nutty Buddy is an amateur / Academy baseball coach in our baseball landscape of Phoenix. I talked with him about it one afternoon, and he remarked that Nutty Buddy has a Flex -version coming out, with a contoured, softer edge. I was intrigued, steering the conversation towards him bringing one the next week to the game and I would try it out. That next week, he said I could "buy one" in about a week. That night, I checked out Shock Doctor, noticed their new Flex model, and purchased it. Whichever you get, get a Flex -version. Thank u so much for taking the time to reply and answer ?s in my thread, and also, very much helping a fellow ump! I'd say 10/12 persons, in my ump class, already bought equipment, but I'm trying to make sure what I get, is SOLID, or the best I can get for my $$, when I finally make my purchase towards my plate equipment. Have a good day Yankee ... and you, sir, have a better tomorrow.

Echoing Ray ( @Razzer, he and I talk about this often), the planform used by Nike is the most iconic, and is the best compromise, or marriage, between weight (in any material), protection, and visibility. During its heyday, with Nike commissioning it for use by Jorge Posada and other Nike-endorsed catchers, it was a thing of near-perfect, fabricated beauty. It didn’t need a dangling throat guard, it didn’t have double bars on the eye port, and the ear guards weren’t big and boxy, making you look like a walking RADAR tower. College catchers, at prestigious Nike-sponsored universities loved it, and lauded it over their counterparts at lesser-supplied universities, who were stuck using Rawlings (shudder!), All-Stars, or Wilsons. Professional umpires got a hold of it, and those that used it, loved it. The welds were minimal and clean as can be, the Titanium was strong and light, and the mask just... was (or is) baseball. I could go a lot further into the history and details of mask design (and bore most of you to tears), but let’s cut to just a few years ago – with universities feeling budget crunches, and professional baseball catchers recognized as branding billboards, the stakes to get a branding logo on equipment intensified. College programs, despite being sponsored by Nike, were entertaining supply contracts for their baseball equipment from Easton, Marucci, Rawlings, and the like. All-Star had cornered the market on HSMs through endorsing Buster Posey and other young professional catchers, and had a huge stake in High School baseball, with catchers using their gear in High School, through to college, and on into professional levels. At this same time, Titanium started to get this “bad” reputation that it was the primary factor, of not the cause, of concussions among baseball catchers and umpires. However, the real culprit is the pads, not so much the mask... but that’s for another discussion. Titanium also got unfairly labeled as “bad” because of the warranty / customer service return nightmare incurred by manufacturers who sold it (Wilson, etc.). What this culminates in is a planform, still iconic and admired by many, sitting in the hands of its Taiwanese shop, with a reduced demand to produce it in Titanium with care and precision. So, they begin cutting corners, using varying gauges and quality of Titanium. Then they increase the production of it in steel (which they were doing before, just not to great quantity). Then they start entertaining requests for production from Adidas and Reebok, eager to supply their endorsed athletes and baseball programs with equipment without investing in the development of new, innovative gear (like All-Star does for itself... and the half-ton gorilla in the room – UnderArmour). Without that Quality Controls check, the masks were rushed through, made in steel, and vinyl-dipped (so the exposed welds no longer had to be pristine). Lastly, since Titanium is so costly, and hollow steel just isn’t providing the desired durability (without vinyl coating), they have been experimenting with using high-grade aluminum alloys, namely one called Titanal. Despite its trade name, it does not contain Titanium; instead, it is a rolled Aluminum-based alloy that specifically marginalizes deformation (bending) while enabling welding and bonding to other composites. This has been appearing on a few masks of late (especially the Adidas ones). So, after reading all this (thank you if you did), Ray is leading the groundswell to have the shop in Taiwan – the very one that holds the planform – produce a run of masks, held to a much more personal / organic quality standard (materials and welds) than some guy sitting in an office a few continents away checking a spreadsheet. I myself am heavily interested, but I’m going to get involved somehow.

The first mask you purchase is usually the most difficult to decide upon. With any of the models that get listed here on U-E and are available at any of the online sources, you really can't go wrong. The Force3 Defender is excellent, but it is an investment, and may be overkill for what you're doing. There are two approaches to this: 1) Get inexpensive masks that will bend when overwhelmed, teamed with really top-notch pads, or 2) Get a top-notch mask that won't bend and functional pads that won't get you killed. I favor Approach 1, while many other of our fellow umpires favor Approach 2. Both are valid. The Diamond DFM-iX3 genuinely is that top-notch mask... it's just that for the first few years, the pathetic pads would have got ya' killed. Those on the Big League, at twice the volume, should work adequately. How fortuitous for you. Not only does the new XV-HDX have the anchor points to mount a Flex-style harness incredibly easy (thereby eliminating my MadMaxMod, and taking away a significant piece of my self-worth), but it also comes with what amounts to be a Flex-style harness (Ray's ULFH RayFlex is still better). I myself don't like dealing with the harness issue, and I'm the one that kinda mastered the mod! The margin of difference between the Schutt-Adams XV and the Champion just whittled down now to two factors – ventilation and width / breadth. The XV has those massive 10mm holes in it, reducing weight and allowing for outstanding ventilation, while the Champion P2xx is, itself, narrower and slimmer. The XV also has the "tummy apron" extension, comprised of blocks of Schutt's D3O padding. If you do need to use this extension, this is going to result in a better overall fit of the CP instead of getting a taller torso unit (such as a 17" P200). Did you get a Nutty Buddy Flex? That's the only way to... fly (? I guess). This is such a pickle. Once you get the Force3 Ultimates (or really, any other top-notch shinguard of any clout, such as the Douglas or All-Star models), two things will strike you: 1) Just how enormously comfortable and protective they feel, and how natural and nimble you seem to be with them on, and 2) What took you so long in purchasing them in the first place?? Available funds are a very real, valid impedance, but as we know, it takes money to make money, right? So here's what I would suggest – either hold out and scrimp and save and get the Ultimates from an online retailer who has a set on a shelf (while Force3 and Ump-Attire have them on backorder) now, or consider / try the All-Star System 7's (or similar models), or get something that will hold up for the interim and that you can regard as spares or sell-off-to-another-umpire later, once you're able to get the Ultimates. Perhaps those Diamond Featherweights or Champro models from Ump-Attire, or the Honig's K10 Collegiates, or All-Star LP1's might fit the bill and budget for you. You did mention you're going to call softball too, right? Yes, you get in the shins just as frequently (even more so, likely) in softball, but the complexity and cost of the top-notch guards such as the Ultimates and System 7's and the Douglas models is lost. Having a second set that can be used for softball is not a bad thing. You did buy plate shoes, did you not?

A Nike Icon in steel, still in its vinyl dip cladding, would probably go $80. What makes it difficult is they (still) aren't sold on the North American retail market. You have to consider, then, that Tony at MaskIt is charging $40 to completely recondition and powdercoat a mask frame, so we're looking at $110 – $140 for a powdercoated Icon. Once recoated, it doesn't matter (much) whether it was a Nike, Adidas, Reebok or Mizuno... It's an Icon. Enough said. It's a shame... another umpire / gear tinkerer and I discussed what it would take it to get that Icon (or any other of our design) planform produced and shipped over here for NA sales and distribution, and I think he said the quote was either 1000 or 10,000 units. Grrrrr.

@Cav, that’s bunk... several of the instructors, calling their own high-level games, use the scissors (ask @jwclubbie, as we just came from WSC). The reason it’s prohibited at school and MiLB has very little to do with safety, and more – almost entirely – to do with expertise with it and the temptation for laziness. You have to track the pitch with your eyes consistently and habitually, else the temptation is to begin to pivot your head. You have to put your hands somewhere (often, on the knee or thigh) with acceptance that they may get hit. As you begin to tire, the back leg starts to bend, and the ground looks so welcoming and tempting upon which to kneel. In short, you have to be physically tuned and know what you’re doing to do the scissors properly. These aspiring umpires are not and do not. For any rationale regarding safety of umpires, coming down from some office in the MLBU complex, you need to look behind the curtain... it’s oftentimes shrouding a different reason. If this wasn’t the case, MLB Umpires would be far more effectively protected, and companies like Team Wendy’s would be actively endorsed and promoted.

John ( @jwclubbie), you’re still trying to figure this out?? Guys, he’s not going to go for the Force3’s... he tried mine at camp/school, in a 16.5”, and they’re not tall/long enough. And the 18.5” is too long. Clubbie needs a true 17”-18”. So that leaves only a few options, considering the level of ball Clubbie does and is stepping into. When you put in the title “low pro”, John, those Schutts, some Champros, and even the +POS BB313’s leap to mind (the similarities between the All-Star LGU313’s and the +POS BB313’s are not coincidental). But would I take them against age-18+ arms? Ehhh... uhhh... no. So, barring Force3 (which doesn’t fit ya) and the Wilsons (wanna play cricket?), I’d take a serious look at the Douglas set (which you might be able to have custom cut to your size) or the All-Star System 7’s. Notice that All-Star put their “Moto” shaping into these guards, they come with DeltaFlex webbing straps, and are offered in a 17” and 18”.

@Kevin_K, I have a hunch they (the PTB in Fed) don’t even foresee BU getting to 2B! I’ve seen some of the... “fitness challenged” guys working high school games as BU and I wonder – I genuinely wonder – how and why they’re still attempting an arcane pivot, defying a fateful trip to the ER or the sports othropedic’s office. So they trundle in, do their little “textbook” pivot, then realize the BR – like a scalded cat – is scampering around the bases and is going to third. So, instead of an Umpire struggling to make a call on the move (hang on! <wheeze> I’ll catch up!), they’re putting the PU “there” already. I fully acknowledge that the NFHS has to be non-discriminatory and all-inclusive (various physical forms, prosthesis, wheelchairs, etc), but to codify it – to put something like this in a manual – is just ridiculous. Because while most sane-&-sound umpires and associations would take a rotation such as this as an advisement on what to do should you have a BU who cannot execute a BR-to-3B movement, and treat it on a case-by-case basis, there are those associations (I hear NJ?) which read it as binding “letter of the law”. I mean, just look at NFHS 10-1-9.

Once I realized my team-issued Rawlings “lobsterback” catchers shin guards weren’t going to cut it as an umpire, I purchased these: All-Star LGU313’s. As you can see, they are the polar opposite of conventional (i.e. bulky) shinguards. No triple and quadruple knee guards, no big ankle flaps, no claw-like toe guards. Not only did these fit under Combo umpire pants, they fit under Base pants! They’re... okay. While I did 18U thru 9/10U baseball, I didn’t take a debilitating shot with them. Within that context, they were ideal because I could switch from Base to Plate to Base to Plate, each time only getting 15 minutes (heck, sometimes 5-10 minutes) between games. Because I was using the boot-like New Balance 460’s, I wasn’t too worried about ankle protection. When I started doing college and adult-age baseball everything changed. The higher velocities gave me pause, and while again, I didn’t take any debilitating shots, I had a direct pitch hit me that felt like a rolling log took out my leg. Having been around fellow umpires at CDP and big tournaments, I knew I didn’t want Wilson shinguards, with their heavy (hot), bulky foam padding, rigid ankle plates, and toe flaps flopping all about. I wore goalie leg pads when I played hockey, and I found Wilson Platinum shin guards to be oddly similar. Besides, if I was going to spend $125 (at that time) on a set, I wanted them to amaze me. To be the last set of shin guards I’d ever need. I considered Schutts (to match my CP, and I wore Schutt in high school), All-Stars and Champros. Heck, I even considered hockey (skater) shin guards, as they are form-fitting and rather protective. But in the end, it was enough guys on here raving about these Kevlar-based shin guards from this quirky little company called Force3 that caught my interest. Ordered them in a 18.5”, liked them, but the fit wasn’t workin for me. Exchanged them for 16.5”, strapped them on, and have been rockin’ and relying on them ever since. Do I still have my LGU313’s? Yes, I’ve toyed with the idea of selling them to another aspiring umpire, but then I end up just keeping them in my “spares” bag. Yes, they made the trip from Wisconsin to Arizona, and I’ve used them for “dusty” games like I’ll have tomorrow evening – 10U educational baseball, solo, on a forlorn school field with rubber throw-down bases and a single-panel backstop that looks like it was reclaimed from a construction site. Those Diamonds you’re considering aren’t bad – a “good percentage” of new(ish) umpires have and use them, but I think a lot of it has to do with Umpire Starter Package and retail store (Dick’s, etc.) availability. Also, consider the context – the majority of us start out doing wee-tyke ball, and are in no position to invest $100+ on all of our gear, let alone just shin guards.