Feint & Throw

[Jack_Wick]

RHP

OBR

 

If you fake a pickoff to 2B, without stepping off your pivot foot from the rubber in doing so, you can no longer throw to any other base, including 2B?

So if you fake to 2B, your foot stays on the rubber, and you throw to 1B, would that be a balk? 

Instead if you fake towards 2B, but your foot stays attached while doing so, to throw the ball to 1B/2B/3B you should step off your foot from the rubber first or not? How? Rule reference?

[Velho]

Sorry to  but keep in mind you are engaging with an LLM - which basically means you are arguing with everyone who's ever been on the internet. You'll never reach a conclusion.

 

[Jack_Wick]

But even case play books predict situations where, after a pickoff feint, the pivot foot might remain in contact with the rubber. So, it's not entirely unrealistic. Well, theoretically, referring only to official rules and interpretations, what would the procedure be for a pitcher to return to pitching toward home base?

 

From 2019 NFHS case book plays 6.2.4:

 

6.2.4 Situation C With R3 and R1, F1 comes set. He then feints toward third, or he removes one hand from the ball and makes an arm motion toward third but does not step toward third. He follows with a throw to first base. RULING: This is a balk. F1 must step toward third base when feinting there. F1 may not feint to first base. He must step toward the base and throw. He might, while he is on the plate, step toward occupied third and feint a throw, and then turn to step toward first and throw there with or without disengaging the pitcher’s plate. If F1 steps and feints to first, he must first disengage the pitcher’s plate or he is guilty of a balk.

OR

6.1.5 SITUATION:  With R3 and R1, F1 steps and feints to third and then steps and throws to first attempting to pick off R1. The throw goes into dead-ball territory. The offensive team’s coach wants a balk to be called because the pitcher never threw the ball toward third. RULING:  When the pitcher stepped off the pitching plate in his feint to third, he became an infielder. Hence, when his throw goes into dead-ball territory, all runners are awarded two bases. R3 gets home and R1 gets third. Had F1 stayed on the pitching plate during his feint to third and his throw to first, all runners would be awarded one base. R3 would get home and R1 would get second. This would not be a balk as F1 made a legal feint and a legal pickoff attempt with no prior motion to pitch.

[grayhawk]

On 12/3/2025 at 8:46 AM, Velho said:

Sorry to  but keep in mind you are engaging with an LLM - which basically means you are arguing with everyone who's ever been on the internet. You'll never reach a conclusion.

 

Yup. It's like Jack is trying to understand the game of baseball exclusively through the rule book without ever actually watching a game.

[Velho]

26 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

Yup. It's like Jack is trying to understand the game of baseball exclusively through the rule book without ever actually watching a game.

Exactly. Because IT can't.

[Jack_Wick]

In this short video https://www.youtube.com/shorts/if9WnA0bDHE (1-3), the pitcher remains engaged with the rubber every time, never breaking contact with it. He simply disengages from the rubber afterwards by moving his pivot foot backward. So it doesn't seem so unrealistic to me. 

The point here is normative; that is, is there a rule that establishes what is legal or not after a pickoff fake to 2B? I'm afraid there probably isn't a rule, much less an official interpretation. 

The coach next to me explained to me that, without disengaging from the rubber, if the pitcher has separated his hands while faking the pickoff, then, if he doesn't disengage first, he could be balked for having joined his hands twice. BUT he himself added that the feint doesn't require arm movement, so you could also keep your hands together, although it would be completely ineffective. 

In short, he concludes that there is essentially no rule or interpretation that would prevent the pitcher from returning to the windup or set position without first having to disengage from the rubber. Is he right or not?

 

Other video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-9zBGMMg3M:

second 1.23-1.25 / 2.13-2.15

 

Other one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg2F9ibksOo

second 2.55-2.59

3.20-3.25

 

Here, for example, without the swing of his arm he could have easily remained with his pivot feet on the rubber...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFWbCSKg73s

 

For example, furthermore, if during the 3to1 move it was not so realistic that the foot would NOT break contact with the rubber then why would Evans and the other interpretation have specified the opposite?

One simple thing to consider: it's a pickoff fake, so the only thing required is to take a step toward second base; not even arm movement is required, so if someone were to make a very static movement like that, without the momentum that simulates a throw, it would be absolutely realistic to think that someone could stay in contact.

The simple question is: is there a rule or interpretation? If so, fine; if not, it's up to you to decide at random.

[Thunderheads]

Ok, STOP!!!!!!!

REGARDLESS of the situation,...a pitcher will disengage, throwing or faking as seen in every video that's been posted.  The knowledge on this site is expansive, so you have your answers in numerous area of your posts.

 

[noumpere]

You've been given all the information.  The rules (and interps) don't and can't cover all the possible situations.  MLB will not issue any guidance on this for "official OBR" until something weird happens in an MLB (or possibly MiLB) game. And the chances of anything close to what you've been describing happening are infinitesimal.  You can go to "your" league and ask for an advance interp, but they will just be guessing as we are.

[grayhawk]

3 hours ago, Jack_Wick said:

In this short video https://www.youtube.com/shorts/if9WnA0bDHE (1-3), the pitcher remains engaged with the rubber every time, never breaking contact with it.

He literally breaks contact every single time. It's exactly as I say it was - human legs cannot twist in a way to make a legal step to 2B and stay engaged with the rubber in any useful way. You are chasing ghosts. 

[Jack_Wick]

19 hours ago, grayhawk said:

He literally breaks contact every single time. It's exactly as I say it was - human legs cannot twist in a way to make a legal step to 2B and stay engaged with the rubber in any useful way. You are chasing ghosts. 

Look, all you have to do is turn around and take a step without any momentum, and you'll easily remain in contact with the rubber. It's truly bizarre to say it's physically impossible. 

Have you seen the other videos? 

Especially this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg2F9ibksOo

second: 2.55 - 2.59 OR 3.20-3.24 and this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAGjIp_Gnvs

0.04 

The pivot foot could have remained stationary if he hadn't moved it intentionally.

 

Since I don't want to seem annoying, I'll leave this question to those of good will who might want to answer: After a fake to 2B, still engaged in rubber, what must the pitcher do to be able to pitch to homebase again, or throw to a base, or feint to a base? What is the official rule or interpretation?

 

 

[jimurrayalterego]

4 hours ago, Jack_Wick said:

Look, all you have to do is turn around and take a step without any momentum, and you'll easily remain in contact with the rubber. It's truly bizarre to say it's physically impossible. 

 

 

 

All you have to do is make a video of you, yourself, doing that and then turning and taking a windup or set position while remaining engaged/touching the rubber.

[grayhawk]

6 hours ago, Jack_Wick said:

Look, all you have to do is turn around and take a step without any momentum, and you'll easily remain in contact with the rubber. It's truly bizarre to say it's physically impossible. 

Have you seen the other videos? 

Especially this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cg2F9ibksOo

second: 2.55 - 2.59 OR 3.20-3.24 and this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAGjIp_Gnvs

0.04 

The pivot foot could have remained stationary if he hadn't moved it intentionally.

 

Since I don't want to seem annoying, I'll leave this question to those of good will who might want to answer: After a fake to 2B, still engaged in rubber, what must the pitcher do to be able to pitch to homebase again, or throw to a base, or feint to a base? What is the official rule or interpretation?

 

 

I never said it was physically "impossible." You left out the part where I said "in any useful way." There is simply NO reason to do what you suggest. ZERO. Why, on earth, would any pitcher do this? What would he gain? The rules don't specifically address this (nor many other things you seem to ask about), because it's just absurd for anyone to do it. The rules also don't address pitching with a parrot on your shoulder. Is it legal?

[noumpere]

3 hours ago, grayhawk said:

The rules also don't address pitching with a parrot on your shoulder. Is it legal?

Only if you play for the Pirates.