Disgraceful Behavior

[grayhawk]

2 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

I didn't read @beerguy55's comments as accepting or justifying that in any way, shape, or form.

Understanding what happened allows us to help prevent it from happening again.  That was the point.

Simply bashing the guy and acting like "you just need thicker skin" is the reaction that pushes people away from seeking help or recognizing they need to take a breather.

When the D1 umpire called the strike bouncing in the batter's box a few years ago, it was easy to quickly jump on him and say "Damn, I should be a D1 ump because I can do better than that."  I cautioned that we needed to get the full story, and yes . . . there was a notable story.  It doesn't justify it, but it allowed us to relate and understand how we got there.

If you want to get to the root causes, that's another conversation and one that will take much longer. Umpire abuse has been happening for over a century. It's essentially ingrained into our culture, unfortunately, and it's only getting worse with social media. Look at the abuse Brian Walsh is taking right now for calling a balk when the pitcher...balked. Even when we're right, the uninformed idiots think we're wrong, biased, gambling, etc.

At the same time, this particular person just doesn't have the temperament for it. If it gets THAT bad, then end the game and walk off the field. Anything is preferable to throwing punches.

[The Man in Blue]

43 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

If you want to get to the root causes, that's another conversation and one that will take much longer. Umpire abuse has been happening for over a century. It's essentially ingrained into our culture, unfortunately, and it's only getting worse with social media. Look at the abuse Brian Walsh is taking right now for calling a balk when the pitcher...balked. Even when we're right, the uninformed idiots think we're wrong, biased, gambling, etc.

At the same time, this particular person just doesn't have the temperament for it. If it gets THAT bad, then end the game and walk off the field. Anything is preferable to throwing punches.

 

No doubt about it on the first part.  Do we have a thread on Walsh already? I just saw an article that I wanted to comment on . . . 

Everybody has a limit. Nobody is that guy until all of the sudden they are. That is the part I am talking about. It is rare that an official joins the avocation to be that guy. You may not be that guy until the cumulative trauma has compounded and compounded. Now we have a two-fold problem . . . (1) recognizing when you shouldn't go out to work and (2) communicating that and being accepting of it in our fellow officials. We could have avoided getting there and could have avoided putting people in this position.  

I recommend watching the second season of The Rehearsal on HBO. While being an extreme mind-F of an experience, they look at the culture of airline pilots that discourages communication between the pilot and co-pilot and how that is a concerning failure in airline crashes. The whole time I was watching it, I thought about how it applies to umpires. Nobody wants to know if you are having a bad day, you shouldn't talk about anything that may affect you negatively, working with a new partner - often someone you are meeting for the first time . . . While we don't have as much on the line, the culture was very similar.

[JonnyCat]

11 hours ago, grayhawk said:

If an umpire is taking abuse to the point of snapping and punching someone, then he has done a terrible job of managing the game.

Yes, he did a terrible job of managing the game. But are you going to deduce exactly how it got to that point from a 38 second video clip? Did the coach spit in his face? And if he did, why is he allowed to do that? Why are coaches allowed to hurl profanities at us? Would you allow that at your place of employment? Sure we can eject them from the game, but what's to prevent them from doing it again? The abuse just continues, and we're shocked that this happened, and want to pass judgement on that umpire? Why do we let the abuse happen?

My point was, why are we not surprised that coaches often attack officials, but we're somehow incredulous that the reverse finally happened? Why is this so shocking to people? We're surprised this happened? You said yourself, the abuse has been going on for over a century. Why? And why hasn't it been addressed? 

I'm not surprised we got to this point, and I for one don't necessarily think it's such a bad thing. Maybe this wakes us up to really take a hard look at the abuse, and maybe, just maybe, we'll start doing something about it. Why don't we ask ourselves, "How did we get to this point?"

I've heard it a million times, "What we permit, we promote." Well, in reality, all of us umpires at some point have permitted abuse, and frankly, we still do. So, all of us, are guilty of promoting the abuse. Sure, it get better to manage games with experience, but we still allow the abuse. We can manage it, but they still abuse us, regardless of the consequences to the coach.

Instead of getting worked up over this incident, why don't we finally work on stopping the abuse? 

[JonnyCat]

8 hours ago, BLWizzRanger said:

Coach, and maybe the umpire, is lucky the mask only swiped his head and didn't make flush contact. 

At first watch, I thought it was a really good left hook! But you're right, I didn't realize it was with the mask. Lucky, indeed.

I'm just bummed I couldn't see if the kick landed! 

[jimurrayalterego]

21 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

At first watch, I thought it was a really good left hook! But you're right, I didn't realize it was with the mask. Lucky, indeed.

I'm just bummed I couldn't see if the kick landed! 

I was sensing some pent up whatever and was going to refer you to some psychobabble until I saw the emogi.

[beerguy55]

16 hours ago, grayhawk said:

It's not about me. It's about every other umpire that has received abuse, but never resorted to violence. As in, nearly every other umpire that's ever worked a game.

You have no idea what those people do when they leave the field.  They may suppress long enough to not act in public, in front of cameras, to not jeopardize the job or criminal record, or whatever.  And then they get in a road rage incident.  Or snap at the wife.  Or smack the kid.  Or crawl into a bottle of Woodford.  Or or or.  As long as they don't do it on the field, you're good? Out of sight out of mind?  I have no problem extrapolating that for every umpire you see react (in any way - assault, quitting, ending the game, etc) on the field, ten more bring their anger outside the field.

Everything is unprecedented until it isn't.  And nobody is the guy on the 6:00 news, until they are.

I'd posit the percentage of umpires that have done this (or for that matter, the percentage of coaches) is much higher than you'd believe, or like.  How many umpires in the US?  50k?  100k?  In 20 seconds on YouTube I was able to find five different umpires hitting coaches, striking first.  I wonder how many happen in the parking lot when nobody's recording? This may not be as isolated as you think.  Doesn't make it right, at all - but it may be a bigger problem than we hoped.  One in a million, maybe call it truly isolated.  One in 10000...might be something more to look at.

I'll repeat what I said - I in no way condone or support the umpire's response.   Not in a million years.  And I support any punishment that fits the crime.  He should have walked away, quit, forfeited the game, wept, curled into the fetal position, or any other response that didn't entail assault.

I simply understand the umpire's response.  And recognize there's an underlying problem that led to the response, and that that particular response could happen to literally anyone (including you or me) if the right conditions occur.  Punishing the umpires that do snap doesn't solve the underlying problem.  And any person that abused that umpire that day, that month, that year I hold culpable - not for his actions, but for his frame of mind.

And that's not even talking about the external factors he may be experiencing, that is compounding the abuse.  Possible layoffs. Financial problem.  Dying wife.  Parent with dementia. Kid bullied at school.   We also collectively have to recognize when we're not 100%.  Not fully productive.  More valuable away from the workplace.

[834k3r]

I just watched the video again. It appears the guy was working solo (small field so that checks out) and I honestly believe the guy could've used a partner to keep the PU and coach separated.

[beerguy55]

This may seem strange for me to say, but I'll be less forgiving and understanding if a coach does this.  I hold the coach to the higher standard from this perspective.

They may be bringing their own baggage to the game, but the game itself is not causing the trauma that umpires experience.  A missed call on strike three isn't abuse.  It may be a source of frustration, but it is not an intentional act of abuse.  In light of that, I don't care if the coach lost his job at the factory.  There's no excuse to attack an umpire.

To illustrate, I'd support an umpire to have a one-year suspension, with counselling, anger management, community service, etc. I'd punt any coach forever, full stop - do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

 

[grayhawk]

37 minutes ago, beerguy55 said:

This may seem strange for me to say, but I'll be less forgiving and understanding if a coach does this.  I hold the coach to the higher standard from this perspective.

They may be bringing their own baggage to the game, but the game itself is not causing the trauma that umpires experience.  A missed call on strike three isn't abuse.  It may be a source of frustration, but it is not an intentional act of abuse.  In light of that, I don't care if the coach lost his job at the factory.  There's no excuse to attack an umpire.

To illustrate, I'd support an umpire to have a one-year suspension, with counselling, anger management, community service, etc. I'd punt any coach forever, full stop - do not pass Go, do not collect $200.

 

I think we're doing something similar. You're a coach, so you hold coaches to a higher standard. I'm an umpire, so I hold umpires to a higher standard.

[Velho]

19 hours ago, grayhawk said:

It's not about me. It's about every other umpire that has received abuse, but never resorted to violence. As in, nearly every other umpire that's ever worked a game.

2 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

I'll repeat what I said - I in no way condone or support the umpire's response [snip]

I simply understand the umpire's response

"Disappointed but not surprised" is the phrase that comes to mind.

[The Man in Blue]

Weird tangent . . . in that vein of not basing your opinions on 38 seconds of crappy cell phone video . . . 

The official I was talking about that had the meltdown . . . I got shuffled on one of my games next week because his wife got into it with a fan at his game yesterday. I guess he was planning on retiring after the post season, but the reactor was still melting down. He told the assignor he was done now.

[The Man in Blue]

Here is the article I referenced earlier . . . see if you spot the problems.

Yankees' Aaron Boone, Devin Williams Have Blunt Message for Umpires

After a leadoff double, Williams walked the bases loaded with two outs. Then, though a 2-0 pitch to Taylor Trammell appeared to graze the virtual strike zone, Williams wound up walking his third batter of the inning to force home the go-ahead run.

Williams got ejected arguing with home plate umpire Brian Walsh, claiming he had four pitches throughout the course of the inning that were called incorrectly.

"I said, 'I had four that you missed,' and he threw me out for it," Williams said, per Steve Schaeffer of MLB.com. "Never been ejected in my career."

...

Manager Aaron Boone was ejected as well during the pitching change as Williams was removed. But had he stayed, he would have been in the dugout to witness as Camilo Doval allowed an RBI single, then balked home a third run in the inning and wild-pitched home a fourth.

"It's amazing how much I ask for that balk call and never get it screaming from the (dugout)," Boone said, per Greg Joyce of the New York Post.

...

Perhaps worst of all, the Yankees could have tied the game if they prevented any of those four runs. Cody Bellinger hit a three-run home run to bring New York within one, but Jazz Chisholm Jr. struck out in the next plate appearance on a 3-2 slider from closer Bryan Abreu that appeared to just miss the virtual zone.

"It's just ridiculous," Williams said, per Schaeffer. "Jazz got the pitch taken out of his hands on a pitch that was a lot further from the zone than pitches I was making."

The Yankees certainly had valid gripes in some instances on Wednesday night. But they're also far too comfortable blaming the umpires and ignoring their own agency in a meltdown.

 

[Velho]

18 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

see if you spot the problems.

Yankees' Aaron Boone

BINGO! What do I win?

[Velho]

22 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Jazz Chisholm Jr. struck out in the next plate appearance on a 3-2 slider from closer Bryan Abreu that appeared to just miss the virtual zone.

Because the tv representation is not always correct. Had that been ABS challenged it would have been a strike - which was known when that article was published.

Kudos to the writer on the last paragraph though