Runs Scored

[MT73]

College game today.

R3, R2 2out.

Ground ball to F6–throws to F3 fit the out.

Call is challenged and overturned.

Now umpires allow both runs to score.

Is this the right call?

[grayhawk]

19 minutes ago, MT73 said:

College game today.

R3, R2 2out.

Ground ball to F6–throws to F3 fit the out.

Call is challenged and overturned.

Now umpires allow both runs to score.

Is this the right call?

What college game at this time of year uses replay?

To answer your question, it's entirely up to the discretion of the crew.

Appendix E, 2(b)(11):

If the reversing of a call results in the need for decisions on the placement of base runners, the umpire crew shall use their best judgment to determine their locations as if the call had been made correctly.

[jimurrayalterego]

4 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

What college game at this time of year uses replay?

To answer your question, it's entirely up to the discretion of the crew.

Appendix E, 2(b)(11):

If the reversing of a call results in the need for decisions on the placement of base runners, the umpire crew shall use their best judgment to determine their locations as if the call had been made correctly.

Doesn't have to be Video Review:

From OBR 8.02(c) ". If the umpires consult after a play and change a call that had been made, then they have the authority to take all steps that they may deem necessary, in their discretion, to eliminate the results and consequences of the earlier call that they are reversing, including placing runners where they think those runners would have been after the play, had the ultimate call been made as the initial call, disregarding interference or obstruction that may have occurred on the play"

Interesting that NCAA only addresses it with Video review

Time to start playing for 4 or 5 outs. I think I saw it a year or two ago in MLB. But I don't think I would score R2 unless the count was 3-2.

[MT73]

Thanks guys—umpire discretion.

Would it be the same in OBR or FED?

[jimurrayalterego]

3 minutes ago, MT73 said:

Thanks guys—umpire discretion.

Would it be the same in OBR or FED?

I stepped on your post so OBR is covered. FED allows the umpire to rectify any reversed umpire decision that placed either team at disadvantage.

[MadMax]

I have a real hard time justifying R2 scoring on this one. The umpire’s (initial) call of Out was the 3rd Out, which means no additional plays should be required. 

Would we really “play this game of What-Ifs?” if the offense’s team dugout was 3B side, and upon the call of (3rd) Out at 1B, R2 just coasts into the dugout? Are we calling him Out for abandonment?? Coach assist for pointing / guiding him back to 3B? 

If this had been the 1st or 2nd out, does R2 even attempt to score? 

Overturning the Out at 1B is one thing, and scoring R3 is logical and realistic, but scoring R2? On a play like this? A bridge too far… 

R1-R3, 2 Outs, Next Batter… Play!

[beerguy55]

35 minutes ago, MadMax said:

I have a real hard time justifying R2 scoring on this one. The umpire’s (initial) call of Out was the 3rd Out, which means no additional plays should be required. 

Would we really “play this game of What-Ifs?” if the offense’s team dugout was 3B side, and upon the call of (3rd) Out at 1B, R2 just coasts into the dugout? Are we calling him Out for abandonment?? Coach assist for pointing / guiding him back to 3B? 

If this had been the 1st or 2nd out, does R2 even attempt to score? 

Overturning the Out at 1B is one thing, and scoring R3 is logical and realistic, but scoring R2? On a play like this? A bridge too far… 

R1-R3, 2 Outs, Next Batter… Play!

I'd have to see the play...it would have to be something like this for me to score both:

• Slow roller to F6
• R2 (Bobby Witt, not Kyle Schwarber) is in a dead sprint and rounds third and heads home without hesitation as F6 bare hands the ball
• Throw causes F3 to stretch to a position (or even fall) that would have made it impossible for him to successfully fire home (eg. if there was only one out before the play started)

Not much different than the play at the end of Major League.

[SeeingEyeDog]

14 hours ago, grayhawk said:

What college game at this time of year uses replay?
 

Well, I have two summer leagues featuring teams formed by college players in my market and both use replay...

~Dawg

[beerguy55]

1 hour ago, MadMax said:

If this had been the 1st or 2nd out, does R2 even attempt to score? 

Rarely, but not never.  It's certainly lower risk with two out, because if they get the batter then it's moot - but the same principle really applies...you're banking on a bad throw to first base....or even a mediocre throw...and potentially a little bit of hesitation from F3.

[MadMax]

4 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

if they get the batter then it's moot - but the same principle really applies...

But the only way this is overturned, especially at the college level, is either via Video Review (and video proves BR beat ball), or pulled foot / off the bag (done after Crew Conference). If you want to talk really remote possibilities, you could overturn a swipe tag, but I doubt seeing that happen. Regardless, the F3 received the throw securely (else BR would not have been judged Out); if he (BR) had been judged Safe – in real time – I don't see F3 not attempting a play on R2 if R2 is attempting to score. 

[Velho]

 

19 hours ago, jimurrayalterego said:

Time to start playing for 4 or 5 outs. I think I saw it a year or two ago in MLB.

This is the fourth out play that came to mind (11 years ago! Though it's made the internet rounds a few times). May be others but it doesn't seem to have become rampant.

 

[beerguy55]

17 hours ago, MadMax said:

if he (BR) had been judged Safe – in real time – I don't see F3 not attempting a play on R2 if R2 is attempting to score.

Like I said...it would have to be a scenario where he had to stretch far to the right, and maybe even brought him to the ground after making the catch...something that would put him in a position where there's just no chance to get the next runner going home....even if he could muster an attempt.