Batter-Runner Passes R1 on Ground Rule Double

[Scotty_Ump]

18u, NFHS rules, R1, 0 outs. 2-man crew and I'm in B.

The batter hits a long fly ball down the RF line. R1 takes off for 2B and is touching the bag when the 1B Coach yells "get back" because F9 is bearing down on the ball. R1 sprints 3/4 of the way back to 1B when B-R clearly passes him rounding 1B. Once I see the pass, I point to the B-R and call him out for passing a lead runner. And while the pass is happening, F9 misses the ball, it lands in fair territory on the warning track, and quickly bounds over the outfield wall for a ground-rule double. We then awarded R1 3B.

The call somewhat confused the OT since they hadn't seen a passing runners situation before. OTHC was great though and had no issue with the explanation we gave him about the ruling.

This also was the first time I can recall calling a runner out for passing another runner. From my view in the working area, I saw the runners pass just after the ball hit the ground but before it went over the fence because (luckily?) I had both the runners and the ball in my line of sight. I was expecting an argument from the OTHC like "How can you call my runner out when the ball is out of play?" but he never brought that up.

And since my partner was focused on the ball, he told me later he hadn't noticed the runners passing so he wouldn't have had anything for me if we did get together on timing of the pass vs. timing of the ball crossing over the outfield fence.

So just an interesting combination of circumstances I never had before in a game... welcome any feedback on how I handled it and anything I should have done differently.

[noumpere]

17 minutes ago, Scotty_Ump said:

1 From my view in the working area, I saw the runners pass just after the ball hit the ground but before it went over the fence because (luckily?) I had both the runners and the ball in my line of sight.

 

Timing doesn't matter -- the ruling is the same whether the passing is before the ball hits the ground, after it his the ground, after it passes out of play.

 

BR is out; R1 is awarded third.

[maven]

2 hours ago, noumpere said:

Timing doesn't matter -- the ruling is the same whether the passing is before the ball hits the ground, after it his the ground, after it passes out of play.

BR is out; R1 is awarded third.

For the OP: the reason that the timing doesn't matter here is that, once the ball is dead, the runners are awarded bases. An award is the right to advance without liability to be put out by the defense, but the advance must be completed legally. When the BR passes R1, that's illegal, whether the ball is live or dead.

The timing of the passing might matter in other situations. This is left as an exercise.

[Velho]

8 minutes ago, maven said:

When the BR passes R1, that's illegal, whether the ball is live or dead.

100% of the time when the ball is dead?

[MadMax]

9 minutes ago, Velho said:

100% of the time when the ball is dead?

This is one of the seemingly contradictory “gotchas” in the Rules. The way to interpret this, is Passing is liable until the completion of the award. And, as others have pointed out, a GR2B and an over-the-fence HR are both dead-ball awards. 

Once the awards are completed, then Passing (as well as Abandonment) is “off the board”, so to speak. 

Let’s say we have R1, and the Batter and R1 are on a team in the 3B Dugout. Batter hits a tracer that one-skips the ground, and goes up and over the fence and OOP. GR2B. R1 arrives and stands on 3B. BR arrives at 2B – his awarded base – and makes that universal signal of wanting to discard his elbow and/or shin guard. He trots on over to the 3BC, who is talking with the (now) R3. BR passes by 3B (and the Runner standing upon it), handing off his guards to the 3BC or a bench teammate. 

Didn’t “passing” just occur??  “Hey Blue! That’s passing! They just passed each other! You just said, an inning ago, that passing can occur on a dead ball! What the hell??!!” 

I mean, s#!t, passing happens on nearly every pitching change! When the Runners leave their bases and gather over in Foul territory. Or, abandonment does, too! Why isn’t that being called, then? Hmm? Hmm?! HMM??! 

On a related theme, do note there’s a purpose to the particular method of how awards are conducted. We (as umpires) are to award and advance the Runner closest to Home first, then work clockwise (on a Balk, or an overthrow OOP as best examples). A prominent exception is CI, wherein we award BR 1B first, and then advance Runners if forced, or place Runners who are not. 1B is the maximum award for the BR for CI. Of course, other infractions and awards supersede or disregard the CI, such as a GR2B on a CI, or a detached equipment (2B at least, if not 3B) occurring on the play. However, on those awards, we are to, again, start the awards process with the Runner closest to Home. 

[grayhawk]

21 minutes ago, MadMax said:

and makes that universal signal of wanting to discard his elbow and/or shin guard.

Just a side note: If you're the umpire in the middle when the BR arrives at 2nd base and play has relaxed, be tuned into him so that he's not shouting 3 times to get your attention to call time. In fact, if you see him wearing an elbow or shin guard, just call time in anticipation of him requesting it (again, once play has relaxed). Saves time for everyone.

[Scotty_Ump]

Thanks for all your feedback! This thread took an unexpected turn when I read runners could be called out for passing a lead runner even in a dead-ball situation. But the home run example makes perfect sense, I guess I had never thought of it that way...

Just so I understand - if the BR had passed R1 immediately after the ball bounded into DBT, by rule B-R is out for passing a lead runner? And the reasoning there is because runners are awarded 2 bases they cannot pass each other while completing their awards?

And to complicate things more...

Let's say that B-R passes R1 on a fly ball hit down the RF line and subsequently the ball lands in foul territory. Does the penalty still apply if the passing occurs on a ball in flight before it becomes foul? I ask because in the OP that ball was fair by about 2' so this easily could have been the outcome of that play.

[BLWizzRanger]

1 hour ago, grayhawk said:

Just a side note: If you're the umpire in the middle when the BR arrives at 2nd base and play has relaxed, be tuned into him so that he's not shouting 3 times to get your attention to call time. In fact, if you see him wearing an elbow or shin guard, just call time in anticipation of him requesting it (again, once play has relaxed). Saves time for everyone.

Save even more time if a new rule was put in place that anything worn in the box during an at-bat is worn or kept on the person while running the bases.  That would probably save 15 minutes a game from the time wasted in taking things off and on. 

[grayhawk]

Thanks for all your feedback! This thread took an unexpected turn when I read runners could be called out for passing a lead runner even in a dead-ball situation. But the home run example makes perfect sense, I guess I had never thought of it that way...

Just so I understand - if the BR had passed R1 immediately after the ball bounded into DBT, by rule B-R is out for passing a lead runner? And the reasoning there is because runners are awarded 2 bases they cannot pass each other while completing their awards?

And to complicate things more...
Let's say that B-R passes R1 on a fly ball hit down the RF line and subsequently the ball lands in foul territory. Does the penalty still apply if the passing occurs on a ball in flight before it becomes foul? I ask because in the OP that ball was fair by about 2' so this easily could have been the outcome of that play.

No. It’s just a foul ball. Think of a similar play where the BR is obstructed running to 1B and the ball lands foul. Same outcome.

[maven]

2 hours ago, Velho said:

100% of the time when the ball is dead?

Objection: asked and answered.

2 hours ago, maven said:

The timing of the passing might matter in other situations. This is left as an exercise.

 

[noumpere]

2 hours ago, Velho said:

100% of the time when the ball is dead?

I think so.

 

In the other (non-award) examples in this thread, when the ball becomes dead, the player is no longer a BR.  So, while there might be passing, it's not the BR passing R1.