834k3r Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Well, last night it finally happened: I got to work (U1) on a varsity 3-man crew. Being it was my first game on a 3-man crew outside of LL, I was nervous and made sure to read up on the CCA mechanics (yeah, I know U1 is the easiest position of the three, but still). I missed one time when I was supposed to be in B (R2 only, 1 out), but for the most part it was a pretty good night. Except for pickoffs. I know in my mind not to step into fair territory on a pickoff throw, but kept doing it. Every. Time. Suggestions on how to beat that into my head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tborze Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 10 minutes ago, 834k3r said: Well, last night it finally happened: I got to work (U1) on a varsity 3-man crew. Being it was my first game on a 3-man crew outside of LL, I was nervous and made sure to read up on the CCA mechanics (yeah, I know U1 is the easiest position of the three, but still). I missed one time when I was supposed to be in B (R2 only, 1 out), but for the most part it was a pretty good night. Except for pickoffs. I know in my mind not to step into fair territory on a pickoff throw, but kept doing it. Every. Time. Suggestions on how to beat that into my head? Sounds like you’re too close to the line. Personally, I position myself between F3 and R1 so I can see F1. About two large steps down the line and one large step toward coaches box. As F1 makes his move I take a half step with my right leg to get behind F3 and use him as a shield, then a step with my left leg to get me closer to the bag for the tag. For aesthetics, get down on one knee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
834k3r Posted March 22 Author Report Share Posted March 22 18 minutes ago, Tborze said: Sounds like you’re too close to the line. Personally, I position myself between F3 and R1 so I can see F1. About two large steps down the line and one large step toward coaches box. As F1 makes his move I take a half step with my right leg to get behind F3 and use him as a shield, then a step with my left leg to get me closer to the bag for the tag. For aesthetics, get down on one knee I was standing about 3-5 feet behind the bag, right foot parallel and next to the line. When engaged with hands on knees, I watched the pitcher between F3 and R1, as you do (and is prescribed in the CCA mechanics). I think part of my struggle is the play coming straight at me (the feeling of getting straight lined), and I'm struggling with how to fix that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Short Umpire Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Just now, 834k3r said: I was standing about 3-5 feet behind the bag, right foot parallel and next to the line. When engaged with hands on knees, I watched the pitcher between F3 and R1, as you do (and is prescribed in the CCA mechanics). I think part of my struggle is the play coming straight at me (the feeling of getting straight lined), and I'm struggling with how to fix that. Just back up off the bag a little bit. I aim for at least 5 feet from the bag, 3 feet is entirely too close and you’ll get tangled in a play being that close. Instead of being parallel to the foul line as normal, and instead of coming off the foul line towards the coaches box, just stay a little back off the bag and square up to the mound. This way you’re still close to the line for fair/foul, but also have yourself lined up for a pickoff at 1st. No need to drop to one knee either that just puts you at risk of not being able to get out of the way of a play. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin_K Posted March 24 Report Share Posted March 24 On 3/22/2024 at 12:25 PM, 834k3r said: I was standing about 3-5 feet behind the bag, right foot parallel and next to the line. When engaged with hands on knees, I watched the pitcher between F3 and R1, as you do (and is prescribed in the CCA mechanics). I think part of my struggle is the play coming straight at me (the feeling of getting straight lined), and I'm struggling with how to fix that. The play isn't coming straight at you. The throw is. Think of it like a play at the plate. That's where you are on the hip of F2 and allow his movement(s) to take you into the wedge. Same thing at 1B. You want to be in the spot where you have a great view of R1 coming toward you and a view of where the tag is going to happen. F3 will guide you to the optimal position based on his movements. There is no requirement that you cement your feet into the ground. As long as the movements are purposeful, quiet, and move you into the best position, get accustomed to having to move on occasion wherever you may be making a call. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Short Umpire Posted March 25 Report Share Posted March 25 12 hours ago, Kevin_K said: There is no requirement that you cement your feet into the ground. As long as the movements are purposeful, quiet, and move you into the best position, get accustomed to having to move on occasion wherever you may be making a call. Not saying that I’ve never had to see a play/ make a call while on the move and there is definitely no requirement to stay put in any situation, I just want to add that you still want to make sure you’re set for the play no matter where it is. There are of course read steps that you can take but these are usually post-pitch or post play steps. And again sometime you have to move in the middle of the play, just don’t get relaxed about it. I like that you said purposeful movements, just make sure you take those steps with proper timing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSam21 Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 This is how I work first base, so take it for what it is worth. 6'-8' feet back from the base, right foot on the line squared up to the base (not the pitcher and not the plate). Being squared to the base limits our available surface area to the pitcher should we get that wild throw. When a throw comes over, don't move for the play. The only time we should be moving is for the back pick from the catcher. We aren't going to have enough time to get into the spot that you are trying to get to by moving, and you end up having a bouncy bad look at the play. 9/10 times the tag is going to be at the edge of the base on the hand coming back in, you will have a plenty good look at that from your starting position. Excessive moving is a product of working the two umpire system and moving into the three umpire system. Working two umpires, you always have to be moving and doing it in a hurry. In the three umpire system, there are a lot of times where you don't have to do anything or you have a lot more time to make the decision on what movements to make. How to break it? Say to yourself, "Pick off throw, don't move", before every, single, pitch. Make it part of your pre-pitch talk track that you have with yourself. It will take you a couple of hundred games to get to where you can feel like you are on auto-pilot working the three umpire system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeingEyeDog Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 58 minutes ago, JSam21 said: How to break it? Say to yourself, "Pick off throw, don't move", before every, single, pitch. Make it part of your pre-pitch talk track that you have with yourself. It will take you a couple of hundred games to get to where you can feel like you are on auto-pilot working the three umpire system. Don't be too hard on yourself, @834k3r Beeks. You are acknowledging you are learning this on the 90' field. Written materials, visual aids, presentations and training are all important. But, like anything else in life, you can't simply study a human endeavor and then enter into it and operate at 100% efficiency, accuracy and competency. Reps...get reps. And then hopefully you are with experienced partners who can give you constructive feedback on those reps and you can build from there. Tell your crew that you are working on this aspect of 3-man when you are U1 so, they know to look for it and YOU know they will be looking for it. I'm still learning the finer points of 3-man myself; hoping to get to a 3-man camp this summer. In my opinion, the most difficult thing about 3-man is that we don't get enough reps outside of scholastic playoff games. We're in this 2-man fundamental system for the regular season and most of summer and fall ball and then when the stakes get increased for the teams in the playoffs, we flex over to 3-man. Being able to execute that flex to 3-man is, in and of itself, a skill. But, I digress...that is a philosophical discussion and for the teams, a financial one as they have to be willing to pay for a third umpire. In closing, make sure your leadership and or assignors know your ambitions. The first step to ascension is showing those empowered to ascend you that you want it. ~Dawg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man in Blue Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 I typically start about 8 feet back and one big step foul, looking for a wedge approach like @Kevin_K mentioned. Last weekend I worked a JV 3-way in a 3-man crew. I experimented with "mirroring" and starting a step fair with my eyes lined up on the edge of the bag. Chastise me . . . 😁 Seriously . . . any good reason not to beyond "We just don't do that?" I felt it was a really good look with everything right there in front of you. I haven't had issues in foul, I just don't feel it is the best look and I don't like being "behind" F3. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man in Blue Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 2 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said: I'm still learning the finer points of 3-man myself; hoping to get to a 3-man camp this summer. In my opinion, the most difficult thing about 3-man is that we don't get enough reps outside of scholastic playoff games. We're in this 2-man fundamental system for the regular season and most of summer and fall ball and then when the stakes get increased for the teams in the playoffs, we flex over to 3-man. Being able to execute that flex to 3-man is, in and of itself, a skill. But, I digress...that is a philosophical discussion and for the teams, a financial one as they have to be willing to pay for a third umpire. I am not sure how much I want to bite off this summer. I was planning on a little traveling for tournaments . . . but I am kicking around an idea . . . We have a nice new turf baseball and softball fields at the HS in my little town. I heard the AD wants the fields to get usage. We also have an "athletic club" which has a building right by the fields. I've been contemplating trying to set up small weekend 3-ways for the express purpose of bringing guys in to work 3UCs and get more experience. Pie in the sky . . . would love to set up an umpire room in the athletic club for pre- and post-games, maybe even bring in 4 guys so one can debrief/watch one game during each set . . . maybe even have good (not sun faded navy) uniforms to loan so crews can look sharp . . . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeingEyeDog Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 14 hours ago, The Man in Blue said: I am not sure how much I want to bite off this summer. I was planning on a little traveling for tournaments . . . but I am kicking around an idea . . . We have a nice new turf baseball and softball fields at the HS in my little town. I heard the AD wants the fields to get usage. We also have an "athletic club" which has a building right by the fields. I've been contemplating trying to set up small weekend 3-ways for the express purpose of bringing guys in to work 3UCs and get more experience. Pie in the sky . . . would love to set up an umpire room in the athletic club for pre- and post-games, maybe even bring in 4 guys so one can debrief/watch one game during each set . . . maybe even have good (not sun faded navy) uniforms to loan so crews can look sharp . . . Bro...take that pie from the sky, put it in the oven and then eat and enjoy that pie. Let's Go! 😀 ~Dawg P.S. Oh...and as the kids say...Pics! Or it didn't happen! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
834k3r Posted April 4 Author Report Share Posted April 4 18 hours ago, JSam21 said: This is how I work first base, so take it for what it is worth. 6'-8' feet back from the base, right foot on the line squared up to the base (not the pitcher and not the plate). Being squared to the base limits our available surface area to the pitcher should we get that wild throw. When a throw comes over, don't move for the play. The only time we should be moving is for the back pick from the catcher. We aren't going to have enough time to get into the spot that you are trying to get to by moving, and you end up having a bouncy bad look at the play. 9/10 times the tag is going to be at the edge of the base on the hand coming back in, you will have a plenty good look at that from your starting position. Excessive moving is a product of working the two umpire system and moving into the three umpire system. Working two umpires, you always have to be moving and doing it in a hurry. In the three umpire system, there are a lot of times where you don't have to do anything or you have a lot more time to make the decision on what movements to make. How to break it? Say to yourself, "Pick off throw, don't move", before every, single, pitch. Make it part of your pre-pitch talk track that you have with yourself. It will take you a couple of hundred games to get to where you can feel like you are on auto-pilot working the three umpire system. By "squared up to the base" do you mean standing hands on knees facing the bag, rather than foot parallel to the 1B foul line facing the plate? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
834k3r Posted April 4 Author Report Share Posted April 4 17 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said: I'm still learning the finer points of 3-man myself; hoping to get to a 3-man camp this summer. In my opinion, the most difficult thing about 3-man is that we don't get enough reps outside of scholastic playoff games. We're in this 2-man fundamental system for the regular season and most of summer and fall ball and then when the stakes get increased for the teams in the playoffs, we flex over to 3-man. Being able to execute that flex to 3-man is, in and of itself, a skill. Our association thankfully has enough umpires that the assignor is able to put a 3-man crew on varsity games for the bigger schools pretty regularly which will be nice to get better more quickly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
834k3r Posted April 4 Author Report Share Posted April 4 15 hours ago, The Man in Blue said: Pie in the sky . . . would love to set up an umpire room in the athletic club for pre- and post-games, maybe even bring in 4 guys so one can debrief/watch one game during each set . . . maybe even have good (not sun faded navy) uniforms to loan so crews can look sharp . . . Sign me up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSam21 Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 3 hours ago, 834k3r said: By "squared up to the base" do you mean standing hands on knees facing the bag, rather than foot parallel to the 1B foul line facing the plate? Correct. Think of it as splitting the difference between the pitcher and the plate. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
834k3r Posted April 5 Author Report Share Posted April 5 On 4/3/2024 at 1:29 PM, JSam21 said: This is how I work first base, so take it for what it is worth. 6'-8' feet back from the base, right foot on the line squared up to the base (not the pitcher and not the plate). Being squared to the base limits our available surface area to the pitcher should we get that wild throw. When a throw comes over, don't move for the play. The only time we should be moving is for the back pick from the catcher. We aren't going to have enough time to get into the spot that you are trying to get to by moving, and you end up having a bouncy bad look at the play. 9/10 times the tag is going to be at the edge of the base on the hand coming back in, you will have a plenty good look at that from your starting position. Excessive moving is a product of working the two umpire system and moving into the three umpire system. Working two umpires, you always have to be moving and doing it in a hurry. In the three umpire system, there are a lot of times where you don't have to do anything or you have a lot more time to make the decision on what movements to make. How to break it? Say to yourself, "Pick off throw, don't move", before every, single, pitch. Make it part of your pre-pitch talk track that you have with yourself. It will take you a couple of hundred games to get to where you can feel like you are on auto-pilot working the three umpire system. I worked on this last night as U3 (not exactly the same as U1, I know but similar) for the couple of plays at 3B I had when I was in D. I 💯 got both calls correct. The first play I was too close because I covered down too far to the bag, and the play ended up on top of me. For the second play I was 2-3 feet further away up the line and my view was much better. Thank all you gentlemen for your advice and comments--I started this thread hoping to help someone in the future, and I'm sure it will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuit Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 3 hours ago, 834k3r said: I worked on this last night as U3 (not exactly the same as U1, I know but similar) for the couple of plays at 3B I had when I was in D. I 💯 got both calls correct. The first play I was too close because I covered down too far to the bag, and the play ended up on top of me. For the second play I was 2-3 feet further away up the line and my view was much better. Thank all you gentlemen for your advice and comments--I started this thread hoping to help someone in the future, and I'm sure it will. In a little confused by this. For most plays at third, I want the runner sliding directly into me, and I want to be *almost* close enough that if I were to lean really aggressively, I could look straight down on top of the play. Okay, maybe not quote *that* close, but pretty close. Then, I can make a read step up or down depending on the route of the runner, the throw, and how the fielder is set up. You often can't get there on steals, but if I could, I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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