Batters Box

[LDS]

Had a question come up regarding batters box.  Is it true that as long as both feet are touching a portion of the batters box that batter is considered within the batters box?  If this is true couldn’t you technically be stepping on the plate and it be considered within the box as long as heal is touching batters box line?

[beerguy55]

50 minutes ago, LDS said:

Had a question come up regarding batters box.  Is it true that as long as both feet are touching a portion of the batters box that batter is considered within the batters box?  If this is true couldn’t you technically be stepping on the plate and it be considered within the box as long as heal is touching batters box line?

It may depend. This looks true in OBR - the rule just says the feet must be "within" but doesn't clarify if that means entirely within, or just partially.  Little League is the same.  They also say the lines are in the box.  So, if you're touching the lines, you're in the box.

FED says the batter is out if he hits the ball while his foot is on the ground completely outside the lines of the box....so basically, the same as above just said in an opposite way....and a little more explicit.

No mention of the plate....I think for all intents and purposes, for the element of judgment, if you're seeing a foot on the plate you're seeing a foot completely outside the box.  It's your judgment.

 

I have seen local/community leagues make this a specific rule, but the major rule sets (unless there is external guidance/interpretation) don't specifically prohibit stepping on the plate.

Many (most?) softball rulesets require the feet to be COMPLETELY within the box, at time of pitch...and specifically prohibit touching the plate when hitting the ball.

 

eg. The batter must have both feet completely within the batter's box prior to the start of the pitch. He may touch the lines, but no part of his foot may be outside the lines prior to the pitch

and 

The batter is out...When his foot is completely outside the lines of the batter's box and touching the ground, or any part of a foot is touching home plate when he hits the ball fair or foul

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, LDS said:

Had a question come up regarding batters box.  Is it true that as long as both feet are touching a portion of the batters box that batter is considered within the batters box?  If this is true couldn’t you technically be stepping on the plate and it be considered within the box as long as heal is touching batters box line?

There are 2 phases of the at bat to consider and some differences in codes. In OBR a batter can legally bat the ball as long as no foot is touching the ground completely out of the box. Heels touching the inside line and one or two toes touching the plate would be legal but we wouldn’t use “within” to describe that. Prior to swinging at the pitch both feet have to be completely in the box by rule, the lines being part of the box. You will see leeway given on that rule sometimes. High school does not allow a foot to touch the plate when batting the ball and NCAA does not allow a foot or knee to touch the plate. 

[Senor Azul]

From the 2021 Minor League Baseball Umpire Manual (section 5.7, p. 53):

When the batter assumes a batting stance in the batter's box, he shall have both feet entirely within the batter's box; i.e., no part of either foot may extend beyond the outer edge of the lines defining the box when the batter assumes a position in the box...

For FED we can use case play 7.3.2 Situation A:

The batter is considered to be in the batter's box when no part of either foot is touching the ground outside the boundary lines forming the batter's box. It is permissible for the feet to be touching the boundary lines that form the batter's box, since the lines are a part of the box. 

[LDS]

Umpiring for 6 years and still learn something new almost every tournament.

Interesting that Major League Umpire says that within the box means that if any part of your foot is in the box that means within the box.

See video.  

 

[The Man in Blue]

@beerguy55 , I’m disappointed.  You know better than that.

Softball depends on the code as there are very different rules depending on the rule set.

[JonnyCat]

1 hour ago, LDS said:

Interesting that Major League Umpire says that within the box means that if any part of your foot is in the box that means within the box.

It's interesting that Ted Barrett says this in the video that prior to the pitch, the feet can be outside the lines as long as they are touching them.. It's contrary to the interpretation in the Wendelstedt Interpretation manual. Section 7.3.1, page 141 of my edition, in the WUM states that both feet must be completely within the lines of the batters box.

Even the Minor League Umpires manual, which SenorAzul cited, has both feet within the batters box.

I'm pretty sure the feet have to be within the lines, but then again, I am not am MLB umpire.

[Jimurray]

29 minutes ago, JonnyCat said:

It's interesting that Ted Barrett says this in the video that prior to the pitch, the feet can be outside the lines as long as they are touching them.. It's contrary to the interpretation in the Wendelstedt Interpretation manual. Section 7.3.1, page 141 of my edition, in the WUM states that both feet must be completely within the lines of the batters box.

Even the Minor League Umpires manual, which SenorAzul cited, has both feet within the batters box.

I'm pretty sure the feet have to be within the lines, but then again, I am not am MLB umpire.

They do by rule prepitch. Video is poorly explained and poorly understood by @LDS. Since that back or forward prepitch foot position will be legal to hit the ball some of us and some MLB umpires usually will ignore it unless the catcher complains. Check the view of of an MLB batter as the game progresses to fuzzy lines. You will see illegal back foot positions to start the at bat. When the catcher complains we move the batter up as Joe West did once, borrowing the batter's bat to measure and trace a back line in the dirt. Otherwise, know that's a legal position to hit the ball and it's better to ignore and concentrate on what counts. 

 

[LDS]

Not trying to be difficult.  Just trying to understand.  That’s why I love this forum.

[Jimurray]

5 minutes ago, LDS said:

Not trying to be difficult.  Just trying to understand.  That’s why I love this forum.

What codes do you call and what rulebooks do you read? I'll just post OBR;

Being in the box ready to hit: "5.04(b)(5)  The batter’s legal position shall be with both feet within the batter’s box. APPROVED RULING: The lines defining the box are within the batter’s box.

Batting the ball: "6.03 Batter Illegal Action (a) A batter is out for illegal action when: (1)  He hits a ball with one or both feet on the ground entirely outside the batter’s box."

5.04(b)(5) is also referenced elsewhere but that nuance probably would muddy the waters for you.

[JonnyCat]

47 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

They do by rule prepitch. Video is poorly explained and poorly understood by @LDS. Since that back or forward prepitch foot position will be legal to hit the ball some of us and some MLB umpires usually will ignore it unless the catcher complains. Check the view of of an MLB batter as the game progresses to fuzzy lines. You will see illegal back foot positions to start the at bat. When the catcher complains we move the batter up as Joe West did once, borrowing the batter's bat to measure and trace a back line in the dirt. Otherwise, know that's a legal position to hit the ball and it's better to ignore and concentrate on what counts. 

 

I concur with what you wrote, and I'm well aware of how MLB treats it.

I agree it was poorly explained in the video. But Ted Barrett does say at 28 seconds into the video, "as he steps in and is prepared to hit." Seemed to me he is talking about the batters initial position. He did say the batter's foot can be outside the lines when he steps in. That much is clear.

According to the WUM, "The batter's legal position prior to the pitch shall be with the entire width of both feet completely within the lines defining the batter's box." The WUM even has a graphic on page 142 of my edition, showing the batter's initial position, and that any part of the foot outside the lines of the box is not legal.

I don't agree that in OBR a batter's initial position can be with any part of the feet outside the lines defining the batter's box as Ted explained. I understand how it is treated, but the rule is pretty clear to me.

[LDS]

USSSA and OBR rules is what the league and tournaments I umpire use.  
Thank you for all the helpful information.

[beerguy55]

15 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

@beerguy55 , I’m disappointed.  You know better than that.

Softball depends on the code as there are very different rules depending on the rule set.

Didn't I say "many/most"?  (as opposed to "all") And I provided an eg - ie. this is an example of one particular ruleset.  Not to mention the first sentence of my post said "it may depend".  Not sure how much more clear I can get there.

[The Man in Blue]

3 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

Didn't I say "many/most"?  (as opposed to "all") And I provided an eg - ie. this is an example of one particular ruleset.  Not to mention the first sentence of my post said "it may depend".  Not sure how much more clear I can get there.

You did, and you and I and a handful here know the difference.  Since softball is so looked down upon here, I often feel the urge to overly specify.   No worries!