Pitches in the strike zone that are not swung on by the batter...and dropped by the catcher

[SeeingEyeDog]

I've had a lot of conversations over the years with umpires in my association on this. It came up again last night and I wanted to hear what you all think and do about it. The brothers in my association typically fall into 3 categories on this:

1) I don't care if the catcher drops a called strike. The rule book only empowers us to evaluate each pitch on its location. If the pitch is in the zone and the batter doesn't swing, I am calling a strike.

2) If the catcher drops a pitch that was in the strike zone? I am calling that a ball. Catchers who drop pitches in the zone erode the umpire's credibility when we call those strikes. How was that in the zone? The catcher couldn't even catch it...

3) If the catcher drops a center cut fastball, I'll call the strike. Any other dropped pitch, I'll call a ball.

Is there or should there be any allowance for the level of baseball?

~Dawg

[Kevin_K]

Are you asking if the manner in which the catcher receives the pitch makes a difference?

If you are, my reply is absolutely, but it depends on the level of ball

A borderline pitch at the bottom of the zone received by a varsity level or higher catcher that is shoved into the ground will be exceptionally difficult to call that a strike because it appears to be a ball. Calling it a ball will likely result in no blowback from anyone. It's the same thing with a borderline pitch on the edge that a catcher allows to travel away from the zone.

Dropped pitches are similar. If the pitch is anywhere near the edge of the zone and ends up on the ground the appearance of the pitch makes it difficult to call a strike. C*ck shot that a catcher drops? Strike all day every day. 

Similarly, some pitches that might be just out of the zone may end up being called a strike because the catcher is a skilled receiver and is working hard to get those not so borderline pitches to be considered strikes. 

There are probably a lot of people who may say grab every strike you can, but context matters. If it's pitch one of a double header at the college level, you may be setting yourself up for a long day by grabbing what looks like a bad strike at the get go. If it's a preliminary round of a weekend tournament for 10-year-olds you may have more wiggle room.

Like many things in umpiring (and life for that matter) there are a lot of variables that need to be considered when deciding how the way a pitch is received impacts whether or not the call on a pitch is what it should be or what it actually is. 

Just my $ .02. YMMV

[ArchAngel72]

So yeah at 10-12 year old meh it happens but not that often I will call a pitch thru any part of the strikezone a strike I dont care if the catcher caught it or not.   Its not the catch by the catcher that makes it a strike its where the pitch goes over ( or not) the plate as to the relevant parts of the batter  In LL armpits and top of  knees, If the batter takes his stance whatever is over the plate between those two over whatever piece of the plate it goes thru... Strike!

 

8-10  Catcher actually catching the pitch is a miracle in itself I call anything there too but catchers making the catch HA!  yeah ok.. 

[JonnyCat]

Agree with Kevin_K.

Depends on the level and how the catcher receives the pitch. Younger kids, I'm trying to grab every strike I can, but even then, there are limits. Unless that pitch is right over the plate and the ball drops right in front of the catcher, It's hard to call a strike on a pitch that a catcher butchers. If that ball rolls a few feet away with the catchers glove moving out of the zone while he's trying to grab it, that's not a pitch that you can usually call for a strike.

Almost every time I've balled a borderline pitch that the catcher butchers at the HS level, if I hear anything at all, it's usually from the coach telling his catcher something along the lines of "you cost your pitcher a strike" or "you got to hang on to those."

At the higher levels, it's almost expected to ball a pitch the catcher doesn't handle properly. There are times that you can call it for strike, and times you shouldn't. Experience and the level you're doing can help guide the decision.

[HankC]

i dont think that much ;  if it crosses the plate in the strike zone - its a strike .

[noumpere]

I tried not to let the catcher influence what I saw -- but I'm not dumb enough to think it didn't happen.

[ArchAngel72]

Heck I had one 10 yr old catcher set up so far outside  he was more behind the lefty batters box than he was the plate. I was wide open exposed in the slot. at one point pitcher thru it right over the inside corner and this catcher had to dive to attempt to make the catch. He did not but I still called "STRIKE"  as it was easily over the plate at thigh high.  One of the easiest calls on the inside corner I ever had to see..  No batter crowding at all and I was a sitting duck.  I told the coach after that half to talk to his catcher as he had a dozen or so pitches thrown straight to him but they were outside by 5 or 6 inches and I could not call that.   However  they looked like good pitches from the dugout cause they were right to him.

 

 

[ErichKeane]

2 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Heck I had one 10 yr old catcher set up so far outside  he was more behind the lefty batters box than he was the plate. I was wide open exposed in the slot. at one point pitcher thru it right over the inside corner and this catcher had to dive to attempt to make the catch. He did not but I still called "STRIKE"  as it was easily over the plate at thigh high.  One of the easiest calls on the inside corner I ever had to see..  No batter crowding at all and I was a sitting duck.  I told the coach after that half to talk to his catcher as he had a dozen or so pitches thrown straight to him but they were outside by 5 or 6 inches and I could not call that.   However  they looked like good pitches from the dugout cause they were right to him.

 

 

That setup is my #1 pet peeve.  Nothing gets a coach hot under the collar like thinking you're missing a bunch of down-the-middle pitches, that he can't tell his catcher is a foot outside.  Ends up creating a pretty obnoxious interaction with him as the game goes on, and probably even means I have to toss him. 

 

One of my annoyances with the 'catcher-out-of-the-catchers-box' balk guidance (I've heard it elsewhere, but the "Umpire Classroom" NFHS guy just repeated it in a video, which is to forget that rule exists) that I've seen is that we're not supposed to use it in cases like this.  It would stop REAL quick if I could balk on the catcher being half into the batters box.

[ArchAngel72]

22 minutes ago, ErichKeane said:

That setup is my #1 pet peeve.  Nothing gets a coach hot under the collar like thinking you're missing a bunch of down-the-middle pitches, that he can't tell his catcher is a foot outside.  Ends up creating a pretty obnoxious interaction with him as the game goes on, and probably even means I have to toss him. 

 

One of my annoyances with the 'catcher-out-of-the-catchers-box' balk guidance (I've heard it elsewhere, but the "Umpire Classroom" NFHS guy just repeated it in a video, which is to forget that rule exists) that I've seen is that we're not supposed to use it in cases like this.  It would stop REAL quick if I could balk on the catcher being half into the batters box.

Oh I get it but the catchers box is HUGE in LL  the way they make the box it extends off the foul lines back to the edge of the circle.

I mean the catcher could actually stand behind the batter..   Not just behind him from the pitcher but behind his back  so far inside he is outside now  LOL

[ErichKeane]

3 hours ago, ArchAngel72 said:

Oh I get it but the catchers box is HUGE in LL  the way they make the box it extends off the foul lines back to the edge of the circle.

I mean the catcher could actually stand behind the batter..   Not just behind him from the pitcher but behind his back  so far inside he is outside now  LOL

Fortunately I'm NFHS and OBR, so I don't have to deal with that.  Even so, guidance typically is to pretend the catcher's box isn't really a thing.

[The Man in Blue]

8 hours ago, noumpere said:

I tried not to let the catcher influence what I saw -- but I'm not dumb enough to think it didn't happen.

I may be misreading the question (my bias is that this is a major pet peeve of mine) ... 

I'm not reading it as the catcher sells us on one (my mentality is the same as yours), but that we see it come through the strike zone, know it came through the strike zone, see the catcher drop it, and then call it a ball.

 

 

"But it looks bad to the coach ... "

 

You don't care what the coach thinks any other time, why now?

[HankC]

when the catcher sets up way outside , i extend my arm with the palm centered on their back as a signal to the coaches .