Your crew blows a call...how do you handle working that coach's games again?

[SeeingEyeDog]

Last year, I was working a Varsity game featuring the reigning state champs at a developing school. State champs are up big late and at the plate. We have R1 and R3. Pitcher fakes to third and throws to first...and my partner on the plate balks him. We get together and I plead with him he's got his rule sets wrong because that move is permitted under FED. He insists its a balk. We give the final ruling as a balk and the coach (who despite his team's performance is the guy you want coaching YOUR kids...) comes out and gives us some static (nothing profane or personal, he's civil), which I allow because we got this wrong. The discussion ends with him saying, "I run this nearly every game...you guys are the only ones to call this a balk." Fast forward to 5 months later and he's playing in a men's league game that I am also now working. He approaches me in pre-game and asks me again about the call and I tell him WE (not identifying anyone) reviewed the rule about that situation in post-game and leave it at that.

Fast forward to this Saturday...I am slotted to work his high school team's scrimmage. What is my obligation to my crew for that scrimmage to alert them about what happened in the past? My plan is to tell my guys, "Hey, home team here likes to run fake to third, throw to first...are we all familiar with those rules?" I don't think they need all the back story. I just want to put this on their radar so it doesn't surprise anyone. And then further...what is my obligation to my crew ANY time I work his games? Same?

I'll hang up and take your responses off-air...

~Dawg

[noumpere]

I always had a list of the rules differences that were most important to me in my bag.  I'd pull it out and say,  "just to remind myself .. fake to third allowed; reentry; FPSR; ...."

 

You can't just leave it at "are we familiar with the rules."  Your other partner was familiar with the rules -- just not with the rules being used in that game; familiar <> correct

[ATXBlue]

I think your suggestion for your pregame discussion to make sure you are all on the same page for that rule in particular will suffice. That way you can pull out the rule book for any naysayers in the bunch. 

[wolfe_man]

My take is since you know about the last missed call, it eats at you.  You can bring it up and pre-game it with your future partners until you're comfortable again, there's nothing wrong with that at all.  

But the real issue here is that ALL of us as umpires need to know the rules.  With so many rule-sets to be aware of, we need to remember the one-off's that are different like this one so we don't mess up and kick a call.   When we do kick a call, let's be approachable by our partners who are trying hard to help us out.   Being obsinate that we are right, when we are wrong, only serves to make us all look bad.

As to the coach, I would admit it was missed now.  It happens whether we like it or not.  There are times our mind gets mixed up (ever stand up and call a ball instead of strike) under the pressure of being perfect on every pitch.  I'm sure he would understand that if he's been around a long time as a coach.   What coaches don't like are hard-headed guys with egos who think they're always right, even when they're clearly wrong.  Take the humble route, we're human and it happens, and see how it goes.  But let the past be in the past, this is a new game, year, etc.

[SeeingEyeDog]

18 minutes ago, wolfe_man said:

But the real issue here is that ALL of us as umpires need to know the rules.  With so many rule-sets to be aware of, we need to remember the one-off's that are different like this one so we don't mess up and kick a call.   When we do kick a call, let's be approachable by our partners who are trying hard to help us out.   Being obstinate that we are right, when we are wrong, only serves to make us all look bad.

The hardest thing we do...is work different rule sets and different leagues. To say nothing of the challenge of a guy who works LL on a short field one day and then goes and works say, D3 or higher with 4-man mechanics. It's a lot to know and a lot to learn. The next hardest thing...is really KNOWING what NEEDS to be KNOWN and KNOWING it well enough to discuss it with our crews when problems arise.

It's hard Wolfe...I just illustrated one where my partner made a mistake, I tried to make my case and get him off the hook...and we stuck with the wrong call. Short of completely eroding his credibility as an umpire and a human being and breaking the huddle and cleaning up the call myself knowing full well the crew is going to get this right...I don't know what else can be done. I've been on the OTHER side of this, too. I had this one right. I've had others I've been on the wrong side of and then found in my post-game research...yeah, I had it wrong and screwed us. One umpires long enough and one will eventually find themselves on both sides of trying to clean up a missed or incorrect call. Hell, some umpire mistakes really CAN'T be "cleaned" up. If you foul a ball down the line that was fair, you've not only erased a base hit, you may have erased an EXTRA base hit...or God help you...a run.

As we say in the hotel business, "Even the Ritz-Carlton gets backed up sewers...it's how you respond that sets you apart."

~Dawg

[wolfe_man]

9 minutes ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

As we say in the hotel business, "Even the Ritz-Carlton gets backed up sewers...it's how you respond that sets you apart."

~Dawg

↑↑↑  this, a thousand times over, this...   if you want to move up, this is what shows you are ready.  Game management.   There are thousands of good umpires, but the great ones have learned how to respond in the right manner.   

Just by your desire to keep improving and the knowledge that you've shown on here, I'd be proud to work a game with you anytime.

[umpstu]

I'm curious if he balked the guy for a reason other then pulling off a third to first move?  Like, did he not disengage when he turned and threw to first or did the guy just not know the rule?  If he didn't know the rule you should never have let it be enforced.

As far as further games, If the coach brings it up, don't let him do it at a plate meeting in front of current group of umpires. I can't think of a time where a coach has brought something up on the field in a formal setting.  As head of the local umpires I have had coaches gripe a little away from the games, but that comes with my position.  Plus, if a call went against the coach making the gripe, well, that's probably just sour grapes.

[Mister B]

After a situation like that, I'll go home and verify the rule in the book, even if I know I'm correct. The next time I see the coach, I'll pull him aside after the plate meeting and tell him, "I double-checked the rule and we got it wrong. Sorry, I'll try to do better." If he's the coach you suggest, he'll appreciate it. 

[BigBlue4u]

10 hours ago, SeeingEyeDog said:

Pitcher fakes to third and throws to first...and my partner on the plate balks him. We get together and I plead with him he's got his rule sets wrong because that move is permitted under FED. He insists it's a balk.

You did your job.  You can't get into an argument with your partner during the game.  Also, the coach does bear some responsibility to know the rules.  Hopefully, by now the coach realizes he should have protested the game due to a misapplication of a rule.  Don't beat yourself up over this.

[The Man in Blue]

2 hours ago, Mister B said:

After a situation like that, I'll go home and verify the rule in the book, even if I know I'm correct. The next time I see the coach, I'll pull him aside after the plate meeting and tell him, "I double-checked the rule and we got it wrong. Sorry, I'll try to do better." If he's the coach you suggest, he'll appreciate it. 

 ... and ^^ that one.  Big thumbs up.

I would say there is absolutely nothing wrong in pre-gaming with your crew/partner in future games, "Hey, we had this happen with this team and we got it wrong.  I just want to make sure we get it right since they run this play often."  As your partner, I would definitely appreciate the head's up! 

We make mistakes, but we also pick our battles.  No shame.