Chest protector

[MadMax]

On 8/15/2022 at 7:16 AM, Barry Haggard said:

the Diamond Pro Umpire Chest Protector DCP-UMP PRO?

It is nothing more than a modified variant of a Wilson WV Platinum. Everything’s a series of trade-offs on it: 

• Since Diamond didn’t have access to (or wanted to risk) using the patented Velcro anchor system, they riveted the upholstery foam vest directly to the carapace plates. Thus, there’s no ability to remove the pad vest and launder / wash it. 
• They skin the foam vest in the same worthless, purposeless nylon that the Platinum uses. 
• The carapace plates are more strategically segmented, allowing you to achieve a more conforming fit. The ever-crucial shoulder arch plates are one piece, just like the Platinums, so the collar bones are better protected. Platinums routinely are shipped, arrive, and are worn stiff as a board. 
• Diamond PRO includes the bicep guards and – wouldja look at that?? – an abdomen extension! It’s a no-go on ever getting those on a Wilson Platinum. 20 years, and they couldn’t be bothered to even try. 
• The Diamond PRO’s neck opening looks larger, but it only slightly is. That appearance is an optical illusion because the Diamond eliminates the single stupidest gimmick that has ever been placed on a piece of protective gear by Wilson – the billow pad. Utterly useless. 
• The Diamond had an initial price point $60 – $100 less than the Platinum, despite having more features, accessories, and equal-or-better coverage. So why the huge price gap? Look on the front of the two units: 

This matters nothing as to how they function. 

[Barry Haggard]

Max, you are a fountain of information. 

I do appreciate it. 

[Barry Haggard]

I thinking of trying to beef up the padding in the Champion, what kind of foam should I use? 

 

 

Has anybody ever seen this chest protector?

[The Man in Blue]

On 8/11/2022 at 10:25 AM, MadMax said:

They “look good” because they are innovative and forward thinking. Both the ZRO-G and Cobra utilize multi-layer, purposed, laminate foam for the vests. Both models employ HDPE for their carapace plates instead of ABS, which makes for a lighter, thinner plate. But alas, like many mad geniuses, +POS’s fatal flaw is they can’t fulfill, deliver, or service their product catalog (like SAAB). 

The holy grail of protection is a Carlucci-esque bespoke unit built to your measurements, with a synthetic felt skin on each and every HDPE plate (to hinder bruising our ever-more-costly shirts), with plates having 10mm ventilation holes in ‘em (to reduce weight and promote ventilation), completely reconfigurable to best cover “this” or “that” for your particular plate stance or body type, and utilizing a hydrophobic foam laminate, in segments and pods of varying thickness, wherein the foam has engineered “reactive resistance”. 

Riddell Power with a Team Wendy -supplied foam jacket. Any of the “classic” units – Douglas, Riddell Power, AA ProPro… Wilson WV Gold – that still use sofa-cushion upholstery foam cannot be the holy grail. Can. Not! The carapace plates are important, surely (just ask Force3 post-V1), but when taken as a cohesive whole unit, the foam jacket – more importantly, what comprises the foam jacket – is doing all the work. The continued (lookin’ right at you, Douglas) use of upholstery foam is serving no purpose for us, the users of the unit; instead, it is serving them, the manufacturers, by being the lowest, cheapest, most effortless material they can use so as to maximize profit. 

And this is where my seething contempt and hatred for Wilson boils to the top. As several colleagues here know – @wolfe_man among them – I never poo-pooh someone for  using a particular CP, so long as it is an intact unit that fits them properly. I will, however, give them heaping amounts of grief and derision for buying one, full retail. Wilson has done nothing – no advancement, no development, no innovation (other than imitation years too late) – in 25 years beyond maintaining the MLB logo on their products like it’s some sanctifying mark, and charging premium ($200+) for it. We’re just feeding the beast, and the beast has gotten _fat_. 

The All-Star CPU4000 cannot be the holy grail… why? Because All-Star completely replaced it with the Cobalt CPU5000. The two units aren’t even siblings. In fact, beyond the All-Star name they share, they only share the attention to the foam laminate in common. At the very least, Stan Jurga & Co. understand that heat alleviation and ventilation is crucial. Wilson still hasn’t even addressed it! They simply don’t have your health in mind.

Why am I hearing Marisa Tomei in my head?
 

[Barry Haggard]

18 minutes ago, The Man in Blue said:

Why am I hearing Marisa Tomei in my head?
 

I laughed.

[GerryB]

3 hours ago, Barry Haggard said:

I thinking of trying to beef up the padding in the Champion, what kind of foam should I use? 

 

 

Has anybody ever seen this chest protector?

Yes, I wore one briefly. Stiff as a board through the chest, the back was just cardboard. Gave it away.

Hutch/Reach Randy Marsh signature. 

[Barry Haggard]

6 minutes ago, GerryB said:

Yes, I wore one briefly. Stiff as a board through the chest, the back was just cardboard. Gave it away.

Hutch/Reach Randy Marsh signature. 

You got that right, I bought that thing for my dad in the late 80's and it's still stiff as a board, but it was a Cadillac in 1990. 

[MadMax]

10 hours ago, Barry Haggard said:

I’m thinking of trying to beef up the padding in the Champion, what kind of foam should I use?

That all depends on what kind of Champion you have. You are referring to the P2xx model line, right? Of the P2xx model, there were two differing variations, with the difference being in how the padding vest was attached to the carapace plates. 

If it’s the elder type, with the padding vest attached to the carapace plates with rivets, there’s no point; you’d actually be better served buying a newer, different model of CP. Or, barring that and if you want to venture into gear refitting, locate a “vintage” set of plates such as a WV Gold, an All-American ProPro, a Douglas, or a 😮 Riddell Power. 

If it’s the more recent type, with padding vest attached to the carapace plates via Velcro anchor straps, then we can work with it. This variant was made in defiance of the Wilson patent C&D letter (that knocked Riddell and AA out of CPs) or after the patent prohibition expired. 

What are you trying to “beef up”? This CP was the preferred CP of many a MiLB umpire because of its slim, trim, athletic and low-profile (ie. “not bulky”) fit, and that it cost nearly $100 less than Wilson CPs! These umpires may be hardcore, but they’re not going to wear pathetic, non-protective CPs in a 90+MPH environment! They just aren’t. 

Now, I’ll grant you, the laminate foam Champion uses ain’t the most robust or advanced stuff out there. It’s simply closed cell foam stuck to a thin open-lattice sizing foam, jacketed (skinned) in a synthetic fabric. Not the best, but sure does beat sofa-cushion foam and cheap nylon! 😆

10 hours ago, Barry Haggard said:

Has anybody ever seen this chest protector?

Ah, the Reach “washboard”. This is exactly why Cece Carlucci and Dan Parsons Sr. started evolving the CP into more advanced shapes, and pushed Joe West to incorporate football shoulder pads. Know what’s so egregious? These washboard units are still being made by companies like Rawlings, MacGregor, TAG, Champion, Schutt and Champro alike. 

[Barry Haggard]

11 hours ago, MadMax said:

That all depends on what kind of Champion you have. You are referring to the P2xx model line, right? Of the P2xx model, there were two differing variations, with the difference being in how the padding vest was attached to the carapace plates. 

If it’s the elder type, with the padding vest attached to the carapace plates with rivets, there’s no point; you’d actually be better served buying a newer, different model of CP. Or, barring that and if you want to venture into gear refitting, locate a “vintage” set of plates such as a WV Gold, an All-American ProPro, a Douglas, or a 😮 Riddell Power. 

If it’s the more recent type, with padding vest attached to the carapace plates via Velcro anchor straps, then we can work with it. This variant was made in defiance of the Wilson patent C&D letter (that knocked Riddell and AA out of CPs) or after the patent prohibition expired. 

What are you trying to “beef up”? This CP was the preferred CP of many a MiLB umpire because of its slim, trim, athletic and low-profile (ie. “not bulky”) fit, and that it cost nearly $100 less than Wilson CPs! These umpires may be hardcore, but they’re not going to wear pathetic, non-protective CPs in a 90+MPH environment! They just aren’t. 

Now, I’ll grant you, the laminate foam Champion uses ain’t the most robust or advanced stuff out there. It’s simply closed cell foam stuck to a thin open-lattice sizing foam, jacketed (skinned) in a synthetic fabric. Not the best, but sure does beat sofa-cushion foam and cheap nylon! 😆

Ah, the Reach “washboard”. This is exactly why Cece Carlucci and Dan Parsons Sr. started evolving the CP into more advanced shapes, and pushed Joe West to incorporate football shoulder pads. Know what’s so egregious? These washboard units are still being made by companies like Rawlings, MacGregor, TAG, Champion, Schutt and Champro alike. 

It's the P200, attached with velcro. I would like better padding in the front of the shoulders, the padding just isn't sufficient. 

Any recommendations on how it can and/or should be done? 

[Barry Haggard]

I probably shouldn't complain, I wore one of these for 20 years. 

[Thunderheads]

36 minutes ago, Barry Haggard said:

It's the P200, attached with velcro. I would like better padding in the front of the shoulders, the padding just isn't sufficient. 

Any recommendations on how it can and/or should be done? 

Again .... go re-read what @MadMax said ...  MANY MiLB umpires wear the Champion you're referring to and they're NOT going to wear something that won't stand up to a 90+mph fastball.  Have you been hit in the shoulder wearing this, and you felt it?

[Barry Haggard]

40 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

Again .... go re-read what @MadMax said ...  MANY MiLB umpires wear the Champion you're referring to and they're NOT going to wear something that won't stand up to a 90+mph fastball.  Have you been hit in the shoulder wearing this, and you felt it?

Yes, I took one off of my collarbone back in April and I thought it was broken. 

[Thunderheads]

8 minutes ago, Barry Haggard said:

Yes, I took one off of my collarbone back in April and I thought it was broken. 

Ok, ... serious question, ...do you wear it properly?

[Barry Haggard]

17 minutes ago, Thunderheads said:

Ok, ... serious question, ...do you wear it properly?

Is there more than one way? 

[Thunderheads]

6 minutes ago, Barry Haggard said:

Is there more than one way? 

No, there's only one way, but you'd be surprised at how many people don't know that ONE way  

[Barry Haggard]

Just now, Thunderheads said:

No, there's only one way, but you'd be surprised at how many people don't know that ONE way  

Good point. 

[BT_Blue]

5 hours ago, Barry Haggard said:

Yes, I took one off of my collarbone back in April and I thought it was broken. 

Interesting. I have worn my All American (predecessor to the Champion and almost identical in every way) against guys throwing in at least the high 80s. And though I felt "pressure". I never felt like I was going to get hurt. 

The only time I ever had the situation you describe, was with a Honigs K1. And that got replace by a WV Gold RIGHT QUICK!

[MadMax]

5 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

No, there's only one way, but you'd be surprised at how many people don't know that ONE way

The majority of inadequate / improper wears of hard shell CPs find their root causes in 2 aspects: 

1. Flawed design of equipped harness to stretch and secure the unit to the body, and hold the chest protector aligned so the billow – the top edge of the chest plate which is also the bottom of the neck opening – is just below the Adam’s Apple. If it’s even an adequately designed CP, it will (should) now be covering the collarbones. 
2. The desire of the wearer to cover their abdomen (“tummy”) in lieu of tallness of the CP or lacking an actual abdomen extension. Wilson CPs are the most egregious culprits here, because not only are their models no taller than 13”, but… even after 20 years of customer / user feedback… they do not incorporate or allow for an abdomen extension. So! Users let their CPs sag and wear loose – like a shop apron – so as to cover their tummies… especially on youth ball. 

[BT_Blue]

9 minutes ago, MadMax said:

Flawed design of equipped harness to stretch and secure the unit to the body, and hold the chest protector aligned so the billow – the top edge of the chest plate which is also the bottom of the neck opening – is just below the Adam’s Apple. If it’s even an adequately designed CP, it will (should) now be covering the collarbones.

And of course, the two main chest protected talked about in this thread, the Champion and the Wilson, came with the old 4-point harness connected with a plastic disc. Thankfully Wilson has finally pulled their head out and equipped their new CPs (at a considerable price hike by the way) with their own neoprene harnesses. 

[midtnump]

@barry haggard  IMO the best thing you can  for any CP is put a good harness on it. Most stock harnesses are sub par but getting better. I just sold my Champion and Douglas CP's due to not being able dur to health. But I wore the Champion  all during summer league HS age kids, 15-17 without any worries. The Umplife harness is great it has enough strap length to fit a 15" or longer cp. If you have a good harness that keeps your cp up high you should be well protected. 

 

 

[umpstu]

2 hours ago, midtnump said:

@barry haggard  IMO the best thing you can  for any CP is put a good harness on it. Most stock harnesses are sub par but getting better. I just sold my Champion and Douglas CP's due to not being able dur to health. But I wore the Champion  all during summer league HS age kids, 15-17 without any worries. The Umplife harness is great it has enough strap length to fit a 15" or longer cp. If you have a good harness that keeps your cp up high you should be well protected. 

 

 

And once you get the cp adjusted to your liking with the umplife harness you won't have to move it again.

 

[umpstu]

On 8/18/2022 at 6:48 AM, Barry Haggard said:

Yes, I took one off of my collarbone back in April and I thought it was broken. 

Sounds like a perfect storm type of hit.  I wear the F3 leg guards and took one to a spot at the very bottom and thought it broke my tibia.  14 year olds pitching, but it was in the area code games so those boys were throwing some serious gas.  That still hurts to remember it.