Showing bunt

[Guest Joe]

Can you have a batter showing bunt and waiving his bat around? Not a little up and down motion but waiving it all around and going in a figure eight motion while just being a fake bunt?

[ErichKeane]

7 minutes ago, Guest Joe said:

Can you have a batter showing bunt and waiving his bat around? Not a little up and down motion but waiving it all around and going in a figure eight motion while just being a fake bunt?

I don't see why not, I'm unaware of any rules against it... Though in some leagues a 'slash bunt' (that is, showing bunt, then pulling back and swinging) is an out, due to the safety concerns of swinging after F3 and F5 crash.

[Velho]

1 hour ago, ErichKeane said:

1 hour ago, Guest Joe said:

Can you have a batter showing bunt and waiving his bat around? Not a little up and down motion but waiving it all around and going in a figure eight motion while just being a fake bunt?

I don't see why not, I'm unaware of any rules against it...

I've seen it used deliberately as a tactic to induce a passed ball and aid R3 coming home (waving the bat like he's in a baton twirling competition). Nothing was called but the discussion was whether batter should have been out for interference / illegal action.

6.01 Interference, Obstruction, and Catcher Collisions (a) Batter or Runner Interference
It is interference by a batter or a runner when:

(3)  Before two are out and a runner on third base, the batter hinders a fielder in making a play at home base; the runner is out;

 

6.03 Batter Illegal Action
(a) A batter is out for illegal action when:

(3)  He interferes with the catcher’s fielding or throwing by stepping out of the batter’s box or making any other movement that hinders the catcher’s play at home base.

[ErichKeane]

5 minutes ago, Velho said:

I've seen it used deliberately as a tactic to induce a passed ball and aid R3 coming home (waving the bat like he's in a baton twirling competition). Nothing was called but the discussion was whether batter should have been out for interference / illegal action.

6.01 Interference, Obstruction, and Catcher Collisions (a) Batter or Runner Interference
It is interference by a batter or a runner when:

(3)  Before two are out and a runner on third base, the batter hinders a fielder in making a play at home base; the runner is out;

 

6.03 Batter Illegal Action
(a) A batter is out for illegal action when:

(3)  He interferes with the catcher’s fielding or throwing by stepping out of the batter’s box or making any other movement that hinders the catcher’s play at home base.

For 6.03(a)(3) I would take 'hinder' to be more than 'distracted', and require some level of physical hindrence (even if it is just making the guy move differently based on position?).  See the 6.01(a)(4):

>(4) Any member or members of the offensive team stand or gather around any base to which a runner is advancing, to confuse, hinder or add to the difficulty of the fielders. Such runner shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate or teammates;

Note how they specify hinder and confuse separately, which implies to me a definition of 'hinder' that does NOT 'confusing'. 

I think the same logic applies to 6.01(a)(3) as well.

[Guest Joe]

It almost feels like it is up to interpretation for how bad he might be blocking the catchers view from the ball coming in or causing any issues when the runner is advancing from third

[maven]

No, it's not interpretation or judgment. This is nothing. And the hindrance is on the batter's side: it's harder both to bunt and pull it back to swing with this nonsense going on.

Tell your pitcher to focus on the glove and throw one right down the middle, coach, and stop fishing for calls.

[noumpere]

11 hours ago, Velho said:

 Nothing was called but the discussion was whether batter should have been out for interference / illegal action.

 

Should have been a very short discussion.

I have seen a local rule against it -- but only at the first level where a team is allowed to bunt (e.g., 7u - no bunts; 8U - bunts, but no waving; 9U - no OBR exception on this rule).

[beerguy55]

2 hours ago, maven said:

And the hindrance is on the batter's side: it's harder both to bunt and pull it back to swing with this nonsense going on.

Not really relevant...the batter's primary objective here is to distract the catcher, either to assist R1 who is stealing, or to induce a passed ball.   He's not trying to hit the ball, and he doesn't really care if a strike ends up being called, if he can achieve his objective...a red-headed step-brother of this play is the swing/intentional miss.

Agree it's nothing, but any coach that fosters this behavior should be kicked in the babies - both plays are bush league and garbage coaching...not to mention it only works about 3% of the time...a catcher prone to miss a pitch in this scenario is probably prone to miss it anyway.

[Velho]

3 hours ago, noumpere said:

13 hours ago, Velho said:

 Nothing was called but the discussion was whether batter should have been out for interference / illegal action.

 

Should have been a very short discussion.

Bush league behavior from a d-bag coach to win an 11U LL game (with the sportsmanship pledge recited and all) is a worthwhile discussion though. 

To everyone's credit, I haven't seen it since.

[The Man in Blue]

I can agree with the sentiment of wanting to call something.  Interference does not need contact nor does it even need to be physical.  Screaming and yelling can be ruled interference.  Based on that ... I can't necessarily agree this is anything.  If he is still out there waggling when the catcher is throwing, then we might have something.  If he's just doing an America's Got Talent (no, we don't) baton twirling act at the plate, then I don't think I have anything. 

That said, my bigger concern is going to be the batter getting the next pitch in the ear.  When I was catching, that would have been my next call.  I wasn't a good kid though.

[Guest Joe]

5 hours ago, maven said:

No, it's not interpretation or judgment. This is nothing. And the hindrance is on the batter's side: it's harder both to bunt and pull it back to swing with this nonsense going on.

Tell your pitcher to focus on the glove and throw one right down the middle, coach, and stop fishing for calls.

Sorry not fishing for calls but it’s just bush league BS that their coaches allow the kids to act stupid while up to bat

[Guest Joe]

1 hour ago, Velho said:

Bush league behavior from a d-bag coach to win an 11U LL game (with the sportsmanship pledge recited and all) is a worthwhile discussion though. 

To everyone's credit, I haven't seen it since.

Lol.  This was an 11u tournament as well and from a D-Bag team that does other bush league crap

[noumpere]

5 minutes ago, Guest Joe said:

Sorry not fishing for calls but it’s just bush league BS that their coaches allow the kids to act stupid while up to bat

Then you need to take it up with the league and not with the umpires (either the umpires at the game or the umpires on this site)

[maven]

30 minutes ago, Guest Joe said:

Sorry not fishing for calls but it’s just bush league BS that their coaches allow the kids to act stupid while up to bat

Learning how to handle bush league opponents is an important lesson in youth baseball.

Bush has always been part of the game, decreasingly as we move up through the game. Why do you suppose that is?

[ErichKeane]

2 minutes ago, maven said:

Learning how to handle bush league opponents is an important lesson in youth baseball.

Bush has always been part of the game, decreasingly as we move up through the game. Why do you suppose that is?

Because the lower-levels are filled with coaches/players who haven't figured out that their !one-hack-to-win-baseball-games! is NOT the first time someone has thought of it, and it doesn't happen at the higher levels for good reason