I made a conflicting call with my PU - a couple questions

[RBIbaseball]

I messed up and make a simultaneous call as my partner. I was in A and a high pop up was hit about 10 feet past the mound toward F4's natural fielding position.

F4 charged in and called F1 off last second, which led to F1 ducking down and completely blocking PU view of a sliding shoestring F4 catch attempt. He had a clear view to everything except about 12 inches up (just enough to block F4's glove and the ground immediately in front).  The ball popped out of the heel of his glove, clearly bounced off the ground, and went directly back into the glove as he brought it up to  "show" a catch (very smooth and nearly instant). The PU, naturally thought it was a legit catch, and immediately signaled an out.

Out of instinct, I pointed at the ground and said "No catch" [safe] "No catch" [safe].

We had a quick chat, and he accepted my take on what I saw, and we got the call right. No one argued, F4 knew it, defensive coach could tell we must have got it right based on reactions. No issue.

 

1. What is the proper way to handle this? My understanding is that I obviously messed up, and should have let the play end, then gave my partner any information I had. Do I only go to my partner if the coach complains and the PU obliges, or do I have an obligation to call time after and go let him know what I saw?

2. Assuming a BU should never intervene instantaneously like I did, I propose this scenario: Same play, but 2 outs and R2. R2 is playing baseball the right way and running hard, rounding 3B and as the ball hits the ground. Assuming I stay silent, and the defense accepts the PU call of out, then they would feel no obligation to throw home and R2 runs through and touches home. If I withhold my knowledge of the no catch (until after the play and we reverse the call) how do we deal with R2? Umpire judgement whether he would have obviously scored vs. put him back on 3B if we don't think he would have? Or something else?

 

[MadMax]

1 hour ago, RBIbaseball said:

I messed up and make a simultaneous call as my partner. I was in A and a high pop up was hit about 10 feet past the mound toward F4's natural fielding position.

F4 charged in and called F1 off last second, which led to F1 ducking down and completely blocking PU view of a sliding shoestring F4 catch attempt. He had a clear view to everything except about 12 inches up (just enough to block F4's glove and the ground immediately in front).  The ball popped out of the heel of his glove, clearly bounced off the ground, and went directly back into the glove as he brought it up to  "show" a catch (very smooth and nearly instant). The PU, naturally thought it was a legit catch, and immediately signaled an out.

Out of instinct, I pointed at the ground and said "No catch" [safe] "No catch" [safe].

We had a quick chat, and he accepted my take on what I saw, and we got the call right. No one argued, F4 knew it, defensive coach could tell we must have got it right based on reactions. No issue.

 

1. What is the proper way to handle this? My understanding is that I obviously messed up, and should have let the play end, then gave my partner any information I had. Do I only go to my partner if the coach complains and the PU obliges, or do I have an obligation to call time after and go let him know what I saw?

So if you're in A, that means there's no-one on. 

PUMP – In 2-man BU terms, that means Pop Up Means Pivot. You should have been coming in, briskly and with attention and purpose to A) not get in the way of an infielder, and B) watch the touch of BR at 1B. That pop-up is not yours. So yes, you messed up. We need to identify how/why you messed up, and it wasn't because you got the call wrong. It was that you didn't perform your role responsibility on that play. 

Now, with that said, you do have an obligation to get the call right. This isn't the pros, so we (collectively) gotta get past this whole "pecking order", "don't question or correct your partner" crap. In the amateur game, no one – no umpire is infallible. If you definitively saw it hit the ground, even if you're the supporting BU on this play and that catch/no-catch is your PU's responsibility, then it needs to be corrected. Your PU calls Out. BR is likely to run it out, anyway (if he doesn't, and peels off, dejectedly and goes back to dugout, then you rectify it after; you DO NOT call him Out for abandonment!). If he does run it out, and achieve 1B, then simply call "Time", and transparently, matter-of-factly state "[PU's name], (add: "from my angle", if you wish) I had that ball on the ground. It was a no-catch." BR is safely on 1B, you're good to go. A lot of umpires get caught up in the age-old (read: old) protocol that we have to be all hush-hush and get together quietly. I'm going to say this, frankly and boldly... in the amateur game, the more transparent (up front, to both clubs) you are, the less angst, friction, and vitriol is raised against you. Granted, you really gotta be on top of your rules and protocols, but by being transparent, it becomes that much more apparent that you (collectively) are endeavoring to get the call right, not so much in favor of one side versus the other. 

The pros have a set, defined series of protocols to follow, as well as the benefit (now) of Replay. The amateur game doesn't. Curiously, in the NFHS Rulebook, there is a prescribed, diagrammed mechanic/signal for "I have more information for you." I've never actually used it... but it's there. 

2 hours ago, RBIbaseball said:

2. Assuming a BU should never intervene instantaneously like I did, I propose this scenario: Same play, but 2 outs and R2. R2 is playing baseball the right way and running hard, rounding 3B and as the ball hits the ground. Assuming I stay silent, and the defense accepts the PU call of out, then they would feel no obligation to throw home and R2 runs through and touches home. If I withhold my knowledge of the no catch (until after the play and we reverse the call) how do we deal with R2? Umpire judgement whether he would have obviously scored vs. put him back on 3B if we don't think he would have? Or something else?

Respectfully, this scenario is futile to discuss. With R2, you (as BU) are at C. Different position, different angle, different responsibilities on the play for both umpires. 

[RBIbaseball]

26 minutes ago, MadMax said:

So if you're in A, that means there's no-one on. 

PUMP – In 2-man BU terms, that means Pop Up Means Pivot. You should have been coming in, briskly and with attention and purpose to A) not get in the way of an infielder, and B) watch the touch of BR at 1B. That pop-up is not yours. So yes, you messed up. We need to identify how/why you messed up, and it wasn't because you got the call wrong. It was that you didn't perform your role responsibility on that play. 

Now, with that said, you do have an obligation to get the call right. This isn't the pros, so we (collectively) gotta get past this whole "pecking order", "don't question or correct your partner" crap. In the amateur game, no one – no umpire is infallible. If you definitively saw it hit the ground, even if you're the supporting BU on this play and that catch/no-catch is your PU's responsibility, then it needs to be corrected. Your PU calls Out. BR is likely to run it out, anyway (if he doesn't, and peels off, dejectedly and goes back to dugout, then you rectify it after; you DO NOT call him Out for abandonment!). If he does run it out, and achieve 1B, then simply call "Time", and transparently, matter-of-factly state "[PU's name], (add: "from my angle", if you wish) I had that ball on the ground. It was a no-catch." BR is safely on 1B, you're good to go. A lot of umpires get caught up in the age-old (read: old) protocol that we have to be all hush-hush and get together quietly. I'm going to say this, frankly and boldly... in the amateur game, the more transparent (up front, to both clubs) you are, the less angst, friction, and vitriol is raised against you. Granted, you really gotta be on top of your rules and protocols, but by being transparent, it becomes that much more apparent that you (collectively) are endeavoring to get the call right, not so much in favor of one side versus the other. 

The pros have a set, defined series of protocols to follow, as well as the benefit (now) of Replay. The amateur game doesn't. Curiously, in the NFHS Rulebook, there is a prescribed, diagrammed mechanic/signal for "I have more information for you." I've never actually used it... but it's there. 

Respectfully, this scenario is futile to discuss. With R2, you (as BU) are at C. Different position, different angle, different responsibilities on the play for both umpires. 

I made the deliberate decision not to come in because F3 and F4 were converging to a point on the infield grass. I instead stayed back but moved a bit into fair territory. I knew my responsibility was to watch the touch,, and was ready to do so.. BR was only about 2/3 way to 1B moving slowly when the ball hit. I took a peek as the play was being made and saw what I saw.

 

To be clear. You are saying I interject myself directly after play stops, regardless of if offense contests, correct?

 

Also, point taken on my 2nd scenario, but I think you get the point I was getting at. There is a scenario where we're put in that position to make a determination regardless of responsibilities or BU being in the C to start. I think it's still a valid question as to how to handle R2 (just massage my scenario to account for those changes)

 

Thanks @MadMax

Very helpful insight.

[Senor Azul]

From the 2016 BRD (section 544, p. 356)--

For FED, if two umpires give differing decisions on the same play, the umpires in consultation decide which call will stand.

2019 NFHS Case Book Play 4.5.1 SITUATION:  The base umpire is out of position and calls R1 safe at third base while at the same time plate umpire calls R1 out. After consultation, it is decided that the base umpire’s decision will stand. The coach of the team in the field protests the game. RULING:  There is no protest allowed, since the play in question did not involve the misapplication of playing rules 1 through 9.

NCAA rule 3-6i. When two or more umpires render different decisions on the same play, the umpire-in-chief shall consult with all the umpires away from all players and coaches. The umpire-in-chief shall determine which decision shall be accepted.

2021 OBR rule 8.03

(c) If different decisions should be made on one play by different umpires, the umpire-in-chief shall call all the umpires into consultation, with no manager or player present. After consultation, the umpire-in-chief (unless another umpire may have been designated by the Office of the Commissioner) shall determine which decision shall prevail, based on which umpire was in best position and which decision was most likely correct. Play shall proceed as if only the final decision had been made.

2018 LL rule 9.04

(c) If different decisions should be made on one play by different umpires, the umpire-in-chief shall call all the umpires into consultation, with no manager or player present. After consultation, the umpire-in-chief shall determine which decision shall prevail, based on which umpire was in the best position and which decision was most likely correct. Play shall proceed as if only the final decision had been made.

INSTRUCTOR COMMENTS:

This is the only occasion where one umpire has authority to “overrule” another umpire. Umpires should, however, work to understand proper mechanics and communication that will keep this situation from arising.

[Replacematt]

2 hours ago, MadMax said:

A lot of umpires get caught up in the age-old (read: old) protocol that we have to be all hush-hush and get together quietly. I'm going to say this, frankly and boldly... in the amateur game, the more transparent (up front, to both clubs) you are, the less angst, friction, and vitriol is raised against you.

Recent example from this weekend: D2, three-umpire crew, with yours truly as PU. Runners on, can't remember where. Pitch comes inside and short, F2 slides to block, and the ball definitely bounced. I was entirely blocked out, but I was pretty sure I heard a sound that it also hit the batter's foot--but I wasn't going to kill the play on "pretty sure." The ball goes to the very-deep backstop and one run scores and another runner makes it to third. Before anyone can ask, I call time and simply call the crew together--sorta; I just asked each of them from about 45 feet away if they had the ball hitting the foot. Both did, we put the runners back and the batter on first, and no one said a word. 

By being open about the conversation, there was no drama building to a climactic announcement that took away a run. It also reiterated that just because the one person who didn't see the facts was the person who needed to decide on them, it didn't mean they were incompetent.

[Velho]

Scenario based on the OP: BU has view that infield ball PU declares 'out' is not caught. What do we then do if?

A) Defense stops actions, BR stops action

B) Defense stops action, BR runs it out

C) Defense continues and makes plays at 1B, BR runs it out

D) Defense continues and makes plays at 1B, BR stops

 

[noumpere]

9 hours ago, Velho said:

Scenario based on the OP: BU has view that infield ball PU declares 'out' is not caught. What do we then do if?

A) Defense stops actions, BR stops action

B) Defense stops action, BR runs it out

C) Defense continues and makes plays at 1B, BR runs it out

D) Defense continues and makes plays at 1B, BR stops

 

General statements: If the crew changes the call, fix it the best they can.  The umpire with additional information should approach the calling official when the play is over.

I don't think NCAA allows changing "catch" to "no catch" on balls in the infield -- especially with other runners (and I recognize that wasn't the case in the OP), it can cause more problems than it fixes.

[RBIbaseball]

19 minutes ago, noumpere said:

The umpire with additional information should approach the calling official when the play is over.

So your opinion is that I go straight to the PU after it concludes and let him know what I saw, regardless of an offensive coach asking for PU to get my help?

In my case, the 1B coach saw what I saw, but what if he didn't... I'm obligated to go get it right out of my own volition, or no?

[noumpere]

This is from NCAA -- but it's good advice in all our games (it's easier to read if you just d/l the book for free -- Appendix F):

Getting the Call Right without the use of video review:
SECTION 1. Following are general guidelines for this policy:
a.    NCAA rule 3-6-g states, “No umpire shall criticize or interfere with another
umpire’s decision, unless asked by the one making it; however, if there is
a misinterpretation of a rule, it should be brought to the attention of the
umpire-in-chief.” Therefore, except in special situations such as those outlined in
the next paragraph, the umpire making the call must be the one to seek assistance
of a partner.
b.    An umpire is urged to seek help when his view is blocked or positioning
prevents him from seeing crucial elements of a play. An umpire is also
encouraged to seek help in instances when he has any doubt and a partner has
additional information that could lead to the proper ruling.
c.    In the situations listed below, a partner who is 100 percent certain he has
additional information unknown to the umpire making the call should
approach unsolicited and alert the other umpire to such information.
However, the ultimate decision to change a call rests with the calling
umpire.
1) Deciding if a home run is fair or foul.
2) Deciding whether a batted ball left the playing field for a home run or
ground-rule double.
3) Cases in which a foul tip is dropped or trapped by the catcher.
4) Cases in which a foul fly ball is caught or not caught.
5) Cases when an umpire clearly errs in judgment because he did not see a
ball dropped or juggled after making a tag or force.
6) Spectator interference plays.
7) Balks called by an umpire who clearly did not realize the pitcher’s foot was
off the rubber.
😎 Changing a call of “foul” to “fair.”
Note: Umpires may conference after a batted ball that first touches the ground
or a fielder beyond the initial position of the first or third baseman and has
been ruled "foul". After consultation with the entire umpire crew, the Crew Chief
will place the base runners where the crew believes they would have advanced had
the ball been first ruled fair. The Crew Chief and crew should be conservative on
their placement of base runners.

9) Changing a call of “catch” to “no catch”: The umpires may conference
after a fair batted ball has been hit into the outfield or on any foul ball to
determine whether the fielder did or did not make a catch.
Note: If the ball is foul, it remains a foul ball.
a) The ball is dead.
b) The batter is placed at first base.
c) Each base runner is advanced one base from the base occupied at the
time of the pitch.
10) Changing a call of “no catch” to “catch”: The umpires may conference
after a fair batted ball has been hit into the outfield or on any foul ball to
determine whether a fielder did or did not make a catch.
a) The ball is dead.
b) All action prior to the ball becoming dead shall be disallowed.
c) The batter shall be declared out.
d) All base runners shall be returned to the base they occupied at the time
of the pitch.
Note 1: A call of "no catch" within the infield can be changed to a "catch" if there
are one or more runners on base and the change to a "catch" results in the third
out, or at any time with no base runners and the change affects the batter only.
Note 2: For the purpose of applying the changing of a call of "catch" to "no
catch" (Section 9) or "no catch" to "catch" (section 10), a fair batted ball shall be
considered "hit into the outfield" when it is hit into the outfield area beyond the
nearest infielder. A line drive hit directly toward an infielder shall not meet the
requirement for a potential change of the initial call.
d.    Umpires are not required to seek help on plays on which they are 100 percent
confident in their judgment and view of the play. Head coaches are not
entitled to a second opinion when the calling umpire is certain his decision
is correct. On the other hand, and contrary to past practice, umpires are not
to “die with a call” in cases in which a) the calling umpire is not 100 percent
certain he is right; and b) another umpire has additional information that
could lead to a proper ruling. Both NCAA philosophy and umpire integrity
– consistent with NCAA rules – dictate that calls are reversed in this situation.
e.    When an umpire seeks help, he should do so shortly after making his original
call. He should not have a lengthy discussion with the head coach or others
and then ask for help. If the calling umpire seeks help, he should include
other umpire(s) who would likely have the best position to see the elements
of the play. This conversation must take place away from players or coaches.
If a crew chief deems it necessary, he can, at his discretion, bring together the
entire crew. All umpires involved should meet at once; multiple meetings
unnecessarily delay the game. Crew chiefs can conduct conferences and are
expected to ensure that NCAA philosophies are given priority over any single
umpire’s pride.
Note: Once umpires have determined a need to conference to review a play, they
shall direct the head coach to return to the dugout or coaching box before the crew
will begin their discussion. Common Practice: The umpires shall notify the opposing
head coach of the umpire’s decision to change the call before signaling their decision
to the press box or crowd. Once the notification is made to the coach, the calling
official will signal the final decision.
f.    Judgment calls, which have traditionally not been subject to reversal, include
steal and other tag plays (except if the ball is dropped without the umpire’s
knowledge, as discussed above); force plays (when the ball is not dropped and
foot is not pulled); balls and strikes (other than check swings). This practice shall
continue. Also, some calls cannot be reversed without creating larger problems.
Overall, umpires are urged to seek help on reversible plays in which they
may have erred by not seeing a crucial element of a play. Such meetings,
while necessary, should be infrequent and not become a substitute for umpires
seeking proper angles, exercising sound judgment and having the conviction
to stay with a call that an umpire believes was properly made.

[Recontra]

All great responses by other contributors with more experience than me.  I'll only add that while I agree the initial catch/no catch in this scenario is PU's primary call, it's also something which could and should be pre-gamed. So, I wouldn't put all this on you! I might get flamed for saying this.

If PU knew his view was blocked, or even if there was a questionable "bounce", if you pre-gamed it, he could have made eye contact with you, and you with him. It's kinda like a screamer up the 1st baseline when you're in A, F-3 touches the ball past the bag, but because he's directly in front of you, you can't tell if he touched it in fair territory or not, or F-2 runs up the line to field a fly bunt but PU can't tell if F-2 first touched it in fair or foul territory. A shoestring catch by F-6 is another similar scenario. The book gives that to PU. But sometimes you in A have the best view.

There's more time than you think to make this call and communicate non-verbally with your partner. It's not in the book, but it works if it's pre-gamed. PU looks quickly toward you with a wide-eyed glance. You're 100% certain the ball touched the ground (or say F-2 first touched the ball fair or foul in front of PU up the 1st baseline). You can tap your chest, wait a fraction of a second for PU to acknowledge you, "I got it!" "No catch! No catch!"

Or, fix it after the dust clears. Most of the time, nobody other than you and your partner know who's primary on a call like that. But pre-gaming those situations will prevent two calls from being made on the play. Same thing with something like a missed swipe tag during a run-down that we're 100% certain we saw. Partner with responsibility for the tag turns and continues running with the run-down (he obviously didn't see the tag). Tap chest, "I got it!" "That's a tag, he's out!"

[The Man in Blue]

On 4/27/2022 at 4:46 PM, MadMax said:

If he does run it out, and achieve 1B, then simply call "Time", and transparently, matter-of-factly state "[PU's name], (add: "from my angle", if you wish) I had that ball on the ground. It was a no-catch." BR is safely on 1B, you're good to go. A lot of umpires get caught up in the age-old (read: old) protocol that we have to be all hush-hush and get together quietly. I'm going to say this, frankly and boldly... in the amateur game, the more transparent (up front, to both clubs) you are, the less angst, friction, and vitriol is raised against you. Granted, you really gotta be on top of your rules and protocols, but by being transparent, it becomes that much more apparent that you (collectively) are endeavoring to get the call right, not so much in favor of one side versus the other.

 

This makes me queasy ... I agree with it in principal.  I definitely agree with being transparent to help avoid issues.  There is something about calling out your partner and overturning the call without discussing it with her/him that just doesn't sit right with me though.  To me, it is opening up a bigger can of worms: anytime a coach doesn't like the call, he's coming fishing and he's using you for bait.  "But you just overturned him on that play ..."

I've been in this boat before, and I would never do it that way. 

State tournament (USA Softball) and we are working two man in the early rounds.  I'm BU in B with R1.  Batter hits a screaming line drive to the centerfielder who comes sliding in for a play ... and I'm peaking as I cut in for my button-hook.  I clearly see it hit the ground and give a discrete point to the ground.  PU calls the out.  Coach comes out chirping at me ... "Coach, it's his call, but I can go see if he had a clean look or if something happened."  I tell PU I had a clean look at it on the ground, he decides (for whatever reason) to stick with his call.  I come back and tell the coach that he felt he had a clean look.

One where I'm on the other side: I'm PU, partner is in C (R2), 2 outs.  Batter hits a hooking shot that is curving towards the third base line in the outfield.  I hop out quickly, get set on the line ... I have a great look ... and the third baseman steps in front of me as the ball is coming down.  I move over ... right as the runner comes around and blocks me out there.  It looked like it was going foul, but I have no clue.  I point fair.  After the play, the defense HC starts to come out and I give him a gentle stop sign and meet him before he gets there.  "Coach, I got screened out on that.  It's better to let it play so I went with it.  I'll go see if my partner can help.  If not, we're going to play it."  Coach was very happy before he even knew the outcome.  (Foul ball!)  Transparency.

I guess here is my biggest takeaway: HUMILITY.  We, as umpires, need to realize that we are not perfect beings.  We need to understand the circumstances where we cannot possibly have all the information and be willing to go for help.

[MadMax]

16 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

We, as umpires, need to realize that we are not perfect beings.

What I’m about to say isn’t directed at you, TMIB, but us collaboratively… 

IOW, we are not God; despite what the Rulebook (especially the NFHS book!) may or may not imply, or supposedly empower us to be!

16 hours ago, The Man in Blue said:

I tell PU I had a clean look at it on the ground, he decides (for whatever reason) to stick with his call.

See, now this infuriates me, both as a fellow umpire, and a (former) baseball participant. Coaches and players (or parents / fans) stumping for a call of catch or no-catch is one thing, and can only be taken at a limited factor or value. But if a fellow umpire, whose objective observation and discernment is supposed to be believed and trusted, puts forth evidence that you (the calling umpire) choose to ignore, you’ve just introduced bias, and suspicion of an agenda. 

[The Man in Blue]

40 minutes ago, MadMax said:

What I’m about to say isn’t directed at you, TMIB, but us collaboratively… 

IOW, we are not God; despite what the Rulebook (especially the NFHS book!) may or may not imply, or supposedly empower us to be!

See, now this infuriates me, both as a fellow umpire, and a (former) baseball participant. Coaches and players (or parents / fans) stumping for a call of catch or no-catch is one thing, and can only be taken at a limited factor or value. But if a fellow umpire, whose objective observation and discernment is supposed to be believed and trusted, puts forth evidence that you (the calling umpire) choose to ignore, you’ve just introduced bias, and suspicion of an agenda. 

I am not God ... but I am a god ... just an imperfect one.  😁

I can see your stance on the second part.  I'm trying to put myself in his shoes though ... If I think I  had a clean look but my partner says the contrary, I start looking at the factors of my look and his/her look.  On his side in this case, it is his call and he was stationary and looking straight at it while I was on the move and coming across.  On my side, he is about 100-110 feet away looking through players while I am roughly 30-40 feet away coming at it with no obstructions in my view.  I'm not making an argument to convince him to change his call.  I'm just offering what I had.

Let's take this out a little further ... Coaches have regularly been coming out of the dugout at the tournaments I've been working because they don't like a safe/out call at first base.  They have tried the whole "I think you had a better look at it" argument, but I am not picking up that stick.  Even if I think I have the runner 4 inches in the air and coming down on the bag, I am not imposing my look at it.  Like I did, I may go out and chat, but there is NO WAY I am going there.

One more anecdote ... I had a partner once who was B-A-D.  Former state official, but his time had gone by and it was obvious.  I wouldn't touch it.  Finally, one of the coaches says "He's making YOU look bad, Blue!"  My private response to the coach: "You know I didn't make that call.  You know that isn't my call.  You hired him and you keep hiring him.  I'm not the one he's making look bad."   

[Kevin_K]

On 5/11/2022 at 12:42 PM, MadMax said:

See, now this infuriates me, both as a fellow umpire, and a (former) baseball participant. Coaches and players (or parents / fans) stumping for a call of catch or no-catch is one thing, and can only be taken at a limited factor or value. But if a fellow umpire, whose objective observation and discernment is supposed to be believed and trusted, puts forth evidence that you (the calling umpire) choose to ignore, you’ve just introduced bias, and suspicion of an agenda. 

Cmon @MadMax!

Suspicion of an agenda? You have been around long enough to know that a significant percentage of our brethren  carry an ego that supersedes any bias or agenda. The suggestion of a call that may have been incorrect ignites a defense mechanism that causes myopia and stubbornness that will ultimately erode the reputation they believe they have. Don't forget this one in pro ball from 2019.

[dumbdumb]

we have had instances, have we not, where the helping officials call was proven 110% incorrect, and the original call was correct.

so, runner on 3b and 1b. both umpires are close to the bag for possible pick offs. batter hits ball back to pitcher at his shoetops for catch, no catch. HP has out and ball not hitting ground.

1BU has great angle and is 110% sure he trapped it. 3BU has great angle and is 110% sure he caught it clean like HPU or he is 110% sure he trapped it also.

Later after the game, your wife, who was there filming, shows conclusively that the HPU's original call of catch was 110% correct and both base umpires were wrong if they both saw 110% no catch, or one was correct that had what the HPU originally had. All umpires would have gone to their grave saying they 110% made the correct call.

So, what is one to do. in one or both cases the base umpire call helped get the call correct with the no catch, in another he was wrong with the no catch and HPU was correct all along.

or

just go to 52:15 to 1:08:25 to enjoy a sticky situation

 

[Velho]

2 hours ago, dumbdumb said:

just go to 52:15 to 1:08:25 to enjoy a sticky situation

side note: this is why I endorse non-dirt colored gloves. Helps differentiate the glove from the ground.