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Guest Stolf

extra inners ghost runner

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Guest Stolf

How will the runner at second to start extra innings rule effect the status of a perfect game? Traditionally there can be no base-runners in a perfect game. On the other hand, the pitcher did not allow the runner at second to reach base. So does the perfect game immediately end when extra innings begin? Or does it end if the runner at second scores? Or can it be still be a perfect game if the pitcher allows no base-runners? And while I’m thinking of it, they say if it converts to a run it’s unearned. I read somewhere that technically the runner reached on an error, although I don’t believe they said on whom. Anybody know?

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If you went to extra innings it wasn't perfect.  For your offense anyway.

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1 hour ago, The Man in Blue said:

If you went to extra innings it wasn't perfect.  For your offense anyway.

Haddix went 12 perfect and lost in the 13th.

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3 hours ago, Guest Stolf said:

How will the runner at second to start extra innings rule effect the status of a perfect game? Traditionally there can be no base-runners in a perfect game. On the other hand, the pitcher did not allow the runner at second to reach base. So does the perfect game immediately end when extra innings begin? Or does it end if the runner at second scores? Or can it be still be a perfect game if the pitcher allows no base-runners? And while I’m thinking of it, they say if it converts to a run it’s unearned. I read somewhere that technically the runner reached on an error, although I don’t believe they said on whom. Anybody know?

To the letter of the definition, it would not be a perfect game because a runner reached base (otherwise you could have a perfect game and allow a run, or has a runner caught stealing - that would be ridiculous)

It would still be a no hitter.

 

I think it's moot - no MLB pitcher has thrown more than nine innings in 8 years...and only one in the past 13 years.

At the amateur level...if one pitcher is throwing a perfect game, he's probably also hit a couple of home runs.

 

I don't know about baseball, but I know in softball, where the International Tie Breaker rule is common and have seen it many times, Game Changer counts the run as unearned.  I believe NCAA counts it as an earned run to the team, but not the pitcher.

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Isn't a "ghost runner" a base that should be occupied, and is considered occupied, but isn't physically occupied?

 

This seems to be a base that is physically occupied, but shouldn't (imo) be occupied.  Just the opposite of a ghost runner.

 

So, the question is invalid.

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Guest Stolf

Glad to hear my question is invalid! I may have said "ghost runner" because I had been researching the 1887 season when base on balls were counted as hits for BA, the the Boston Globe called them "phantom hits" with a resulting "ghostly average." Thanks for the snark. How do I delete my question? Moderator?...

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To our guest, Stolf—I think you raised some very good questions. Unfortunately, I cannot find any definitive answers to your questions. Apparently, though, the current scorekeeping apps have incorporated the tiebreaker into their programming so I would recommend that you ask one of the leading apps such as GameChanger how their programming compiles stats from games that end in a tiebreaker.

One such app called CBS StatCrew Software at STATCREW.COM says the following at its FAQ webpage--

Regarding the scoring for the international tiebreaker, if this runner scores, the run is automatically scored as team unearned by TASBS, so the run does not affect the pitcher's earned run average. There are no other ramifications to this pitcher's ERA by scoring the play this way, so we suggest letting the software handle it...

I also found the following article from the newspaper The Wichita Eagle by Jeffrey Lutz dated June 14, 2015, when he wrote about an American Association game between the Wichita Wingnuts and Lincoln Saltdogs. I hope you find this helpful--

On the list of ways the American Association’s new tiebreaker rule can impact a baseball game, Sunday’s result was relatively tame.

Technically, the rule could cause a pitcher who completed a perfect game to earn a loss, and it could swing a playoff series in favor of a team with one fast runner.

All it did on Sunday was turn a scoreless game into an offensive outburst, nullifying nearly spotless starting pitching as Lincoln scored four runs in the 11th to beat the Wingnuts 4-2 at Lawrence-Dumont Stadium.

The rule, adopted from international baseball, states that the batter who made the last out of the 10th inning starts the 11th on second base. It affects strategy on both sides and could tamper with individual statistics in ways that can be difficult to explain.

For example, Lincoln catcher Ryan Wiggins, who began the top of the 11th in scoring position, was credited with a run even though he never actually reached base safely, going 0 for 4 with a pair of strikeouts…

It would take an extreme case, but a pitcher could lose a game without ever allowing a baserunner. The runner from second could be advanced on a sacrifice bunt and be driven in with a sacrifice fly. The run wouldn’t be charged to the pitcher, but he would take the ultimate hard-luck loss.

We are not all rude and sarcastic to our guests. If you have any future questions you can always address them to me and I would be happy to try to answer them. I also would love to hear about your research about the 1887 baseball season.

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11 hours ago, Guest Stolf said:

And while I’m thinking of it, they say if it converts to a run it’s unearned. I read somewhere that technically the runner reached on an error, although I don’t believe they said on whom. Anybody know?

According to MLB.com, the placed runner is ascribed to a Team Error, and does not affect the pitcher’s stats.

And, technically, the runner is a Designated Runner (this is what MLB.com calls it), and cannot be a “ghost runner”... because if he was a ghost, he wouldn’t be there. Don’t you remember Backyard Stickball?

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