Little League leaving early

[GPblue]

I do not do LL rules and have a LL coach that I work with that had a situation last night where a runner on second base left early on a base hit.  

Is a runner leaving early a delayed dead ball or immediate?

 

[johnpatrick]

Delayed.

 

[GPblue]

13 minutes ago, johnpatrick said:

Delayed.

 

Thank you. What would the mechanic and placement of runners in a base hit situation?

[Radwaste50]

43 minutes ago, GPblue said:

Thank you. What would the mechanic and placement of runners in a base hit situation?

Either a right fist out or red flag 

The rule book takes a full page attempting to explain what to do in all possible situations when any runner leaves early before a hit. I will try to simplify it. It's not easy though. There is one loophole in the rule that allows the offense to go unpenalized. If a runner or runners are forced to advance and have left early and the batter gets a "clean" hit. No penalty is imposed. A "clean" hit means it was a single, double or triple in the umpire's judgment. If it was a hit and an error or an advance on the throw, the batter will be sent back to the base that was the scored value and all runners must go back to the bases they originally held or the one nearest the batter. Any time a base becomes available after a hit, runners will be sent back. Here are some basic keys that help simplify the rule:

1. If one runner is guilty they are all guilty.

2. You move the batter-runner back to where you judge the value of the clean hit. Any advance made by him, beyond his scored hit, is nullified.

3. Place all runners back on their original bases whenever possible. Put them as close as possible to the batter-runner after placing the batter-runner at the base judged to be the clean hit.

4. If any bases become empty due to any runner or the batter-runner being put out, return the runners to those bases.

EXAMPLE: Bases loaded, no outs. Batter hits a "clean" double, and tries for third thinking the throw is going home. The throw is cut-off and they get him out at third. Before the hit a runner left early. Guess what? The batter is out and ALL runners return. Because his out left bases empty, you put all runners back to their original bases. The offense just loves that call!

In that same play, if the out on the batter had been the third out, no runs would count due to the fact that they could have been put back if it had not been the third out. The really love that call!!!

When a runner leaves early he remains guilty even if he returns before or after a hit.

EXAMPLE: A runner on 2nd leaves early, then a fly ball is hit to right field. The runner retouches after the catch and heads for 3rd. The throw gets past F5 and the runner scores. RULING: You put the runner back on second.

[GPblue]

16 minutes ago, Radwaste50 said:

Either a right fist out or red flag 

The rule book takes a full page attempting to explain what to do in all possible situations when any runner leaves early before a hit. I will try to simplify it. It's not easy though. There is one loophole in the rule that allows the offense to go unpenalized. If a runner or runners are forced to advance and have left early and the batter gets a "clean" hit. No penalty is imposed. A "clean" hit means it was a single, double or triple in the umpire's judgment. If it was a hit and an error or an advance on the throw, the batter will be sent back to the base that was the scored value and all runners must go back to the bases they originally held or the one nearest the batter. Any time a base becomes available after a hit, runners will be sent back. Here are some basic keys that help simplify the rule:

1. If one runner is guilty they are all guilty.

2. You move the batter-runner back to where you judge the value of the clean hit. Any advance made by him, beyond his scored hit, is nullified.

3. Place all runners back on their original bases whenever possible. Put them as close as possible to the batter-runner after placing the batter-runner at the base judged to be the clean hit.

4. If any bases become empty due to any runner or the batter-runner being put out, return the runners to those bases.

EXAMPLE: Bases loaded, no outs. Batter hits a "clean" double, and tries for third thinking the throw is going home. The throw is cut-off and they get him out at third. Before the hit a runner left early. Guess what? The batter is out and ALL runners return. Because his out left bases empty, you put all runners back to their original bases. The offense just loves that call!

In that same play, if the out on the batter had been the third out, no runs would count due to the fact that they could have been put back if it had not been the third out. The really love that call!!!

When a runner leaves early he remains guilty even if he returns before or after a hit.

EXAMPLE: A runner on 2nd leaves early, then a fly ball is hit to right field. The runner retouches after the catch and heads for 3rd. The throw gets past F5 and the runner scores. RULING: You put the runner back on second.

Thank you.. From what my coworker said, The umpire saw the basehit, killed it and put runner back on second and replayed the down.....kicked it!

[Mudisfun]

Biggest one that gets kicked...

This is NEVER, EVER, EVER an out... Kid can leave early on every pitch and the only remedy there is available is to put him back to the base.

[beerguy55]

3 hours ago, Mudisfun said:

Biggest one that gets kicked...

This is NEVER, EVER, EVER an out... Kid can leave early on every pitch and the only remedy there is available is to put him back to the base.

The confusion may come from softball, where this is  ALWAYS an out for the runner (immediate dead ball), in all codes from 10U (8U?) up to adults - including Little League Softball Major and up.   I wonder if many LL umps cross over and do both during the same season.

 

Assuming the OP is talking about LL Baseball, but it does just say Little League.  If it's LL Softball, runner is out, other runners return, pitch is nullified.

[Richvee]

9 hours ago, Radwaste50 said:

Either a right fist out or red flag 

The rule book takes a full page attempting to explain what to do in all possible situations when any runner leaves early before a hit. I will try to simplify it. It's not easy though. There is one loophole in the rule that allows the offense to go unpenalized. If a runner or runners are forced to advance and have left early and the batter gets a "clean" hit. No penalty is imposed. A "clean" hit means it was a single, double or triple in the umpire's judgment. If it was a hit and an error or an advance on the throw, the batter will be sent back to the base that was the scored value and all runners must go back to the bases they originally held or the one nearest the batter. Any time a base becomes available after a hit, runners will be sent back. Here are some basic keys that help simplify the rule:

1. If one runner is guilty they are all guilty.

2. You move the batter-runner back to where you judge the value of the clean hit. Any advance made by him, beyond his scored hit, is nullified.

3. Place all runners back on their original bases whenever possible. Put them as close as possible to the batter-runner after placing the batter-runner at the base judged to be the clean hit.

4. If any bases become empty due to any runner or the batter-runner being put out, return the runners to those bases.

EXAMPLE: Bases loaded, no outs. Batter hits a "clean" double, and tries for third thinking the throw is going home. The throw is cut-off and they get him out at third. Before the hit a runner left early. Guess what? The batter is out and ALL runners return. Because his out left bases empty, you put all runners back to their original bases. The offense just loves that call!

In that same play, if the out on the batter had been the third out, no runs would count due to the fact that they could have been put back if it had not been the third out. The really love that call!!!

When a runner leaves early he remains guilty even if he returns before or after a hit.

EXAMPLE: A runner on 2nd leaves early, then a fly ball is hit to right field. The runner retouches after the catch and heads for 3rd. The throw gets past F5 and the runner scores. RULING: You put the runner back on second.

Haven't done LL in quite a while....What's the situation where the runner on 3B "disappears" ? Something like bases loaded, batter reaches 1B, no out recorded but  ball doesn't leave the infield. ???

[LVUmp34]

12 hours ago, Richvee said:

Haven't done LL in quite a while....What's the situation where the runner on 3B "disappears" ? Something like bases loaded, batter reaches 1B, no out recorded but  ball doesn't leave the infield. ???

My understanding that if bases are loaded and there is a play at the plate for instance, and the runner left early and is called safe, but has no unoccupied base to return to, he is not out. He is then simply removed from the field of play.

If a clean double was hit (judgement of umpire), wouldn't R2 score, R1 end up at third and B1 ends up at 2nd? R3 would be then be removed from field of play.  

That's how I interpret the rule and examples given.

[LRZ]

I'm not sure if this is the official citation, but 7.13(c) reads, in part: "(c) when any base runner leaves the base before the pitched ball has reached the batter and the batter bunts, hits a ball within the infield or advances on an uncaught third strike, no run shall be allowed to score. If three runners were on the bases and the batter reaches first base safely, each runner shall advance to the base beyond the one they occupied at the start of the play except the runner who occupied third base, that runner shall be removed from the base without a run being scored."

The LL RIM has a case play: "Bases loaded and any one of the runners leaves his/her base early. Ball hit to shortstop that goes through his/her legs onto the outfield grass. Ruling: All runners advance safely. One run will score because the ball was not valued as an infield hit. Remember, the ball must stay in the infield to use 7.13(c)."

[Richvee]

Score that R3 - D in the scorebook...short for R3 disappears.

[Aging_Arbiter]

13 hours ago, LRZ said:

the batter bunts, hits a ball within the infield or advances on an uncaught third strike,

If the ball doesn't leave the infield, he does not score, he is not out, he just goes.....POOF!

 

Scorekeeper: How do I record that?

Me: I don't care.  Write 7.13poof

[Richvee]

10 minutes ago, Aging_Arbiter said:

Write 7.13poof

I like that better.