Hit or Not

[Guest Alf]

Ball hit to left center field and player is thrown out trying to reach 3rd for a triple.  He reached 1st and 2nd safely but was thrown out trying to stretch it to a triple.  What's the rule?

[Stk004]

I believe it's recorded as a double. 

[S0M0TEITBE]

That is correct. Still ruled as a hit/double.

[beerguy55]

It's a double.   It's also a double if he slides into the base and over slides the bag (even if he touched it first) and then gets tagged out.

If he rounded third and then got out diving back into third base it would be a triple.

 

And yes - you will get people try to convince you it's not a hit at all because he got out.  I've had this argument more times than I care to count.

[ALStripes17]

It's a double.   It's also a double if he slides into the base and over slides the bag (even if he touched it first) and then gets tagged out.
If he rounded third and then got out diving back into third base it would be a triple.
 
And yes - you will get people try to convince you it's not a hit at all because he got out.  I've had this argument more times than I care to count.

Bet you haven't had that argument as much as I have argued with people that getting on base by error hurts your OBP

[beerguy55]

42 minutes ago, ALStripes17 said:

Bet you haven't had that argument as much as I have argued with people that getting on base by error hurts your OBP

Yeah, it's an odd one for sure - I've had people tell me I'm wrong even when I can show the documented formula.  SHOULD a batter get credit for ROE...sure...but right now they don't.  Too bad so sad.

I also like the fact that it's possible to have a lower OBP than BA..

[Guest guest]

Ok I'll bite.  How does getting on by Error negatively affect your OBP?

[ALStripes17]

Ok I'll bite.  How does getting on by Error negatively affect your OBP?

In the OBP formula, reaching on error is counted as an AB but doesn't factor into anything in the numerator. In essence, you were supposed to be out, so you don't get credit for it.

[beerguy55]

17 minutes ago, Guest guest said:

Ok I'll bite.  How does getting on by Error negatively affect your OBP?

OBP = (Hits + BB + HBP) / (AB+BB+HBP+SF)

 

So:

ROE hurts your OBP  (unless it's on a sac bunt)

FC hurts OBP (which it should)

CI is nothing

Sac bunt is nothing

[Rich Ives]

1 hour ago, beerguy55 said:

It's a double.   It's also a double if he slides into the base and over slides the bag (even if he touched it first) and then gets tagged out.

If he rounded third and then got out diving back into third base it would be a triple.

First one is wrong. Second one is right.

9.06(c ) When the batter attempts to make a two-base hit or a three-base
hit by sliding, he must hold the last base to which he advances.
If a batter-runner overslides and is tagged out before getting
back to the base safely, he shall be credited with only as many
bases as he attained safely. If a batter-runner overslides second
base and is tagged out, the official scorer shall credited him
with a one-base hit; if the batter-runner overslides third base and
is tagged out, the official scorer shall credit him with a two-base
hit.
Rule 9.06(c ) Comment: If the batter-runner overruns second or
third base and is tagged out trying to return, the official scorer
shall credit the batter-runner with the last base he touched. If a
batter-runner runs past second base after reaching that base on
his feet, attempts to return and is tagged out, the official scorer
shall credit the batter with a two-base hit. If a batter-runner
runs past third base after reaching that base on his feet,
attempts to return and is tagged out, the official scorer shall
credit the batter with a three-base hit.

 

[beerguy55]

17 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

First one is wrong. Second one is right.

9.06(c ) When the batter attempts to make a two-base hit or a three-base
hit by sliding, he must hold the last base to which he advances.
If a batter-runner overslides and is tagged out before getting
back to the base safely, he shall be credited with only as many
bases as he attained safely. If a batter-runner overslides second
base and is tagged out, the official scorer shall credited him
with a one-base hit; if the batter-runner overslides third base and
is tagged out, the official scorer shall credit him with a two-base
hit.
Rule 9.06(c ) Comment: If the batter-runner overruns second or
third base and is tagged out trying to return, the official scorer
shall credit the batter-runner with the last base he touched. If a
batter-runner runs past second base after reaching that base on
his feet, attempts to return and is tagged out, the official scorer
shall credit the batter with a two-base hit. If a batter-runner
runs past third base after reaching that base on his feet,
attempts to return and is tagged out, the official scorer shall
credit the batter with a three-base hit.

 

You're reading something differently than I am then.  This outline clearly shows that both my statements are correct.   If he overslides third, and gets out, he gets a double.  If he rounds third and gets tagged out, he gets a triple.

 

Likewise, if R1 attempts to steal and overslides second base, it's "caught stealing"...he doesn't get the SB.

[Aging_Arbiter]

and if a frog had wings it wouldn't bump his A$$ when it hops.

[Rich Ives]

7 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

You're reading something differently than I am then.  This outline clearly shows that both my statements are correct.   If he overslides third, and gets out, he gets a double.  If he rounds third and gets tagged out, he gets a triple.

 

Likewise, if R1 attempts to steal and overslides second base, it's "caught stealing"...he doesn't get the SB.

Your statement was: " It's a double.   It's also a double if he slides into the base and over slides the bag (even if he touched it first) and then gets tagged out. "

The rule clearly says:  "  If a batter-runner overslides second base and is tagged out, the official scorer shall credited him with a one-base hit;

Your statement is incorrect.

 

[beerguy55]

5 minutes ago, Rich Ives said:

Your statement was: " It's a double.   It's also a double if he slides into the base and over slides the bag (even if he touched it first) and then gets tagged out. "

The rule clearly says:  "  If a batter-runner overslides second base and is tagged out, the official scorer shall credited him with a one-base hit;

Your statement is incorrect.

 

um...context my boy, context.  The OP talks about the runner trying to advance to third base and getting tagged out at third base.  

The second scenario in my response talks about rounding third base.  Do I really have to spell out exactly that the first scenario is about oversliding third base?  

The rule clearly says "if the batter-runner overslides third base and is tagged out, the official scorer shall credit him with a two-base hit."

 

[Guest Baseball17]

I read BG55's answer the way he interpreted it.  Everything being commented on was talking about third base at that time.  

[Rich Ives]

12 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

um...context my boy, context.  The OP talks about the runner trying to advance to third base and getting tagged out at third base.  

The second scenario in my response talks about rounding third base.  Do I really have to spell out exactly that the first scenario is about oversliding third base?  

The rule clearly says "if the batter-runner overslides third base and is tagged out, the official scorer shall credit him with a two-base hit."

 

So you're denying you said this " . . It's also a double if he slides into the base and over slides the bag (even if he touched it first) and then gets tagged out. "

If he overslides third as in in the OP it's a double.  But if he just overslides a particular base and is tagged he doesn't get credit for reaching that base.  

[Radie 88]

23 hours ago, ALStripes17 said:

In the OBP formula, reaching on error is counted as an AB but doesn't factor into anything in the numerator. In essence, you were supposed to be out, so you don't get credit for it.

In my humble opinion, this is how it SHOULD be...

22 hours ago, beerguy55 said:

If he overslides third, and gets out, he gets a double.  If he rounds third and gets tagged out, he gets a triple.

 

Likewise, if R1 attempts to steal and overslides second base, it's "caught stealing"...he doesn't get the SB.

The first scenario seems dumb to differentiate. At least in spirit. For all intents and purposes, oversliding past third means you HIT A TRIPLE.

Imagine it as a force play... A forced runner beats the throw to a base but momentum carries him past the base (after properly touching it) and the fielder does NOT tag him, but does keep his foot on the bag... The Runner isn't out. He made his legal touch and the base is his.. Why not the same on an over slide? He made his legal toich, it's his base.

The second scenario... I don't know... I'm still inclined to go with what I feel on the first scenario... But I'm much more accepting of this being a caught stealing... We have PLENTY of situations where the same play is called differently based on the situation so this being different then oversliding on a hit isn't a deal breaker for me. 

[kylehutson]

4 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

So you're denying you said this " . . It's also a double if he slides into the base and over slides the bag (even if he touched it first) and then gets tagged out. "

If he overslides third as in in the OP it's a double.  But if he just overslides a particular base and is tagged he doesn't get credit for reaching that base.  

What the heck? You guys are both saying the same thing???

[beerguy55]

4 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

So you're denying you said this " . . It's also a double if he slides into the base and over slides the bag (even if he touched it first) and then gets tagged out. "

If he overslides third as in in the OP it's a double.  But if he just overslides a particular base and is tagged he doesn't get credit for reaching that base.  

I confirm that's exactly what I said.  

What puzzles me is how you can not connect the dots and realize I was talking about third base.   

Again, context.  The OP was about third base.  My response was about third base.

 

 

[beerguy55]

10 minutes ago, kylehutson said:

What the heck? You guys are both saying the same thing???

No, Rich has somehow made a "logical" leap that I was talking about second base.  Even though I have categorically stated that third base is exactly what I was talking about, he is insistent that's not what I meant.   It's to the point now where I wonder if the stubbornness is Internet trolldom or functional illiteracy.

 

 

[beerguy55]

2 hours ago, Radie said:

The first scenario seems dumb to differentiate. At least in spirit. For all intents and purposes, oversliding past third means you HIT A TRIPLE.

Imagine it as a force play... A forced runner beats the throw to a base but momentum carries him past the base (after properly touching it) and the fielder does NOT tag him, but does keep his foot on the bag... The Runner isn't out. He made his legal touch and the base is his.. Why not the same on an over slide? He made his legal toich, it's his base.

The second scenario... I don't know... I'm still inclined to go with what I feel on the first scenario... But I'm much more accepting of this being a caught stealing... We have PLENTY of situations where the same play is called differently based on the situation so this being different then oversliding on a hit isn't a deal breaker for me. 

Right, wrong or indifferent,the score keeping rule book states that you must hold the bag to get credit for it.  It's about control.  By sliding past it, you have not controlled it.  Rounding it on your feet shows control.

It is indeed different from the rules in determining whether you have acquired a base.