Intentional Drop

[MT73]

What is the criteria for a ball to be intentionally dropped?

Does it have to be in his the glove first?

Can  a player guide the ball down with the back of his glove?

[Senor Azul]

The answer to your question about an infielder guiding the ball with the back of his glove is answered specifically in a Federation case book play—8.4.1 Situation G:

“With the bases loaded and one out, B5 bunts a ball in the air. F3 uses the back of his glove to gently knock the ball to the ground where he picks it up and throws to F2 who touches the plate and then throws out B5 at first. RULING:  The ball is dead. B5 is out and the runners return. Manipulating the ball to the ground is prohibited. Allowing the ball to drop to the ground untouched is not considered an intentionally dropped ball.”

Both NCAA and OBR rule the same as Fed does on this point. Please note that NCAA/FED specifically include bunted balls in flight in this rule. OBR rule 5.09a-12 lists only line drives and fly balls but bunts in flight are included by interpretation.

[maven]

44 minutes ago, MT73 said:

What is the criteria for a ball to be intentionally dropped?

Does it have to be in his the glove first?

Can  a player guide the ball down with the back of his glove?

The infielder must touch the ball with hand or glove and intentionally drop it. Your example is one way to do it. A batted ball intentionally allowed to fall to the ground untouched is not an intentionally dropped ball.

If the umpire rules an intentional drop with less than 2 outs and 1B occupied, the ball is dead, the batter is out, and runners return.

Mechanically, the covering umpire has primary on this call, though any umpire may call it (similar to IFF).

[MT73]

Thanks.

[VolUmp]

On 1/19/2017 at 2:07 PM, maven said:

 

On 1/19/2017 at 3:46 PM, Senor Azul said:

 

To all three of you gents, I'd like to say, excellent question and responses.

MT73, if you are a relative newcomer to this forum, you've asked about a rule that I consider to be very misunderstood both in its proper execution and its origin.

A play happened in the 2016 World Series with Javier Baez playing 2B for the Cubs where I truly believe he allowed a soft line drive to bounce when he could have caught it in flight ... and turned it into a legit double play.  I've seen other MLB infielders blow this same play by letting it glance off their glove first and the umpire is never fooled.

http://m.mlb.com/video/v1207038383/nlcs-gm2-baez-starts-headsup-double-play-in-6th

 

Another version of this "savvy" play done correctly is to get a speedster off the bases as Elvis Andrus displays:

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/9782246/v1154394783/texlaa-andrus-lets-ball-drop-to-swap-runners

A third version is when an infielder notices that a batter is not running out of the box when he pops it up with R1, and the heads up infielder can let the ball drop, fire to 2B, pivot man fire to 1B, and get a double play on the lazy batter.  I saw Craig Counsell do it to Rich Harden about 8 years ago (on a Sac Bunt) when Harden was pitching for the Cubs.  Harden never even left the batter's box.  Counsell made Harden look terrible. (Can't find a video)

And another reason I say it's misunderstood ... listen to the ignorant banter between the commentators who think Ian Kinsler did something illegal ... and even the umpires huddled presumably to make sure he didn't let it touch his glove.

And one last example: This time it's a screaming line drive to 3B with bases loaded that Mike Lowell knocks down.  Ump was all over it and killed the play.  Not sure what in the world his manager Jack McKeon was arguing.

 

[beerguy55]

15 hours ago, VolUmp said:

And one last example: This time it's a screaming line drive to 3B with bases loaded that Mike Lowell knocks down.  Ump was all over it and killed the play.  Not sure what in the world his manager Jack McKeon was arguing.

As a manager I think you have two choices.  One - Laugh and say "yeah, you got us"...or two - make some kind of half-ass argument that it wasn't intentional.

 

The common reason to do it (provided you do it right and not touch the ball before it hits the ground), is to swap a fast runner for a slow one - like Kinsler was doing.

[MT73]

My confusion was based that in the umpire course I attended we were told that the ball had to be in the glove and then dropped for the rule to be applied. 

Obviously that was wrong.

Another question ---suppose the fielder allows the batted ball to strike him in the chest and then picks it up for a double play?

[Rich Ives]

12 minutes ago, MT73 said:

My confusion was based that in the umpire course I attended we were told that the ball had to be in the glove and then dropped for the rule to be applied. 

Obviously that was wrong.

Another question ---suppose the fielder allows the batted ball to strike him in the chest and then picks it up for a double play?

APPROVED RULING: In this situation, the batter is not
out if the infielder permits the ball to drop untouched to
the ground, except when the Infield Fly rule applies.

[beerguy55]

15 minutes ago, MT73 said:

My confusion was based that in the umpire course I attended we were told that the ball had to be in the glove and then dropped for the rule to be applied. 

Obviously that was wrong.

Another question ---suppose the fielder allows the batted ball to strike him in the chest and then picks it up for a double play?

 

The fielder needs to let the ball drop to the ground untouched.

If he touches it in any way the umpire CAN rule it an intentional drop.

 

"An infielder intentionally drops a fair fly ball or line drive, with first, first and second, first and third, or first, second and third base occupied before two are out. The ball is dead and runner or runners shall return to their original base or bases;"

APPROVED RULING: In this situation, the batter is not out if the infielder permits the ball to drop untouched to the ground, except when the Infield Fly rule applies.

[maven]

What is this, some commie thing, like a soccre chest trap? Pah.

[MT73]

8 hours ago, maven said:

What is this, some commie thing, like a soccre chest trap? Pah.

Looking back you already answered my question when you said the ball must first be touched with hand or glove.

[maven]

7 hours ago, MT73 said:

Looking back you already answered my question when you said the ball must first be touched with hand or glove.

Although not part of the rule, that's how we ordinarily judge "intentionally dropped." When the fly ball hit Canseco in the head and bounced over the wall, that was not an intentional drop.

But if, say, a player from Venezuela did a chest trap and let the ball fall to the ground, I'd rule that an intentional drop. I've never heard of that — and it sounds painful.

IOW, touching is necessary but not sufficient for an intentional drop: we need more than touching to judge intent. Usually that involves the glove, sometimes the hand, but in principle it could be another body part.

[BT_Blue]

On Sat Jan 21 2017 at 5:34 AM, maven said:

Although not part of the rule, that's how we ordinarily judge "intentionally dropped." When the fly ball hit Canseco in the head and bounced over the wall, that was not an intentional drop.

Side note... favorite part of this play is watching David Hulse  (who is playing CF) through this whole video. Even better than actually watching it hit off Canseco's head.