NLDS Game 5 - Harper pick off

[stkjock]

Anyone see the Urias pick off?  

 

Thoughts?

 

Renyolds showing his ignorance as usual? 

 

Video to follow  as as soon as it's posted. 

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/94951848/v1206079383/?query=Uriashttp://m.mlb.com/video/topic/94951848/v1206079383/?query=Urias

 

Nelson commentary. - http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/94951848/v1206199683

[Jimurray]

17 minutes ago, stkjock said:

Anyone see the Urias pick off?  

 

Thoughts?

 

Renyolds showing his ignorance as usual? 

 

Video to follow  as as soon as it's posted. 

Mine was muted as yours should have been or at least ignore Reynolds. No part of the foot went past the back of the rubber. No balk. Regarding the snap throw, no balk by rule in OBR and no balk in FED and NCAA when it happens that fast. Regarding the step more towards 1B than home, it was but some guys will balk the hips toward home. Those guys haven't yet.

[stkjock]

I was yelling at the screen that Reynolds is a moron  

[udbrky]

I'm betting that they do some training in ST/minors on where exactly you put that foot down.

[Stk004]

Video?

[Rich Ives]

6 minutes ago, Stk004 said:

Video?

You can't tell from the video.

I thought the step was more marginal than the free foot.

BUT GUYS - Harold was right that if the foot goes past the rubber he has to throw home (there was no runner on 2B). The only real issue is where the foot went, and no replay was aligned to get a good look. 

[Jimurray]

1 minute ago, Rich Ives said:

You can't tell from the video.

I thought the step was more marginal than the free foot.

BUT GUYS - Harold was right that if the foot goes past the rubber he has to throw home (there was no runner on 2B). The only real issue is where the foot went, and no replay was aligned to get a good look. 

What part of rubber he didn't clearly state. But he did state that if the foot crossed the back leg it was a balk. That is not correct but the myth exists among many untrained umpires no matter what the code. A replay showed the foot behind the pivot foot leg in a position that would not put any part of it behind th back of the rubber. But how that pitcher does it is impressive. 

[Rich Ives]

12 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

What part of rubber he didn't clearly state. But he did state that if the foot crossed the back leg it was a balk. That is not correct but the myth exists among many untrained umpires no matter what the code. A replay showed the foot behind the pivot foot leg in a position that would not put any part of it behind th back of the rubber. But how that pitcher does it is impressive. 

He said it was a balk because he didn't throw home. That is correct if the foot crossed. Harold knows what to look for to know when a runner can run.

[Mister B]

I interpret the rule as the entire foot needs to go past the back edge or the rubber. What say you? Otherwise it should say when the foot crosses the back edge of the rubber. Just like the football just needs to break the plane, not cross the plane. 

Regardless, he's got 2 really nice moves to first. 

[udbrky]

PBUC changed wording a couple years ago, any part of foot.

[stkjock]

4 hours ago, Rich Ives said:

You can't tell from the video.

I thought the step was more marginal than the free foot.

BUT GUYS - Harold was right that if the foot goes past the rubber he has to throw home (there was no runner on 2B). The only real issue is where the foot went, and no replay was aligned to get a good look. 

 

4 hours ago, Jimurray said:

What part of rubber he didn't clearly state. But he did state that if the foot crossed the back leg it was a balk. That is not correct but the myth exists among many untrained umpires no matter what the code. A replay showed the foot behind the pivot foot leg in a position that would not put any part of it behind th back of the rubber. But how that pitcher does it is impressive. 

/\ this is what I recall,being said as well, HR said the free foot crossed the back leg, not the rubber.  Short vid says "plane" but his added comments in the next inning I recall back leg mentioned  

 

Vid - http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/94951848/v1206079383/?query=Urias

 

Video added above - http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/94951848/v1206199683

[Thunderheads]

sure looks like he's behind it here ....but at the same time, Harper's not bitching, (BIG SURPRISE) and no one from Washington says a word ....

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/94951848/v1206199683/?query=umpire

[scrounge]

I don't know if it crossed the plate or not...I just think he stepped more to home than first, so i think it's a balk just based on that, but very close.

[stkjock]

too bad there's not a better angle to see how far the free foot goes

 

such as U1 would see...  edit courtesy of @Jimurray

[Stk004]

The free foot going back looks fine to me. Now the step to 1st.............  

[UmpJeff]

Matt Waymire sounds a lot like Charlie Steiner.

[Jimurray]

2 hours ago, stkjock said:

too bad there's not a better angle to see how far the free foot goes

There is a better angle. U1 had it. He knows what to look for also.

[stkjock]

18 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

There is a better angle. U1 had it. He knows what to look for also.

yea, I meant for us to view as U1 would

[Thunderheads]

20 minutes ago, Jimurray said:

There is a better angle. U1 had it. He knows what to look for also.

I'd bet $50 that Joe West would balk that ALL_DAY_LONG!  

[grayhawk]

4 hours ago, Thunderheads said:

sure looks like he's behind it here ....but at the same time, Harper's not bitching, (BIG SURPRISE) and no one from Washington says a word ....

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/94951848/v1206199683/?query=umpire

I bothers me when people make definitive statements without definitive evidence.  Nelson said that the foot broke the plane, but there is simply no camera angle that shows it.  I'm sure it was close, but I have not seen a single replay with the angle needed to definitively say whether he broke the BACK plane of the rubber with any part of his free foot.

The step is REALLY borderline, IMO.  But pitchers SHOULD be right at the edge to gain the biggest advantage possible.  Of course, by being right at the edge, they also are more at risk of being called for the balk.

[Thunderheads]

19 minutes ago, grayhawk said:

I bothers me when people make definitive statements without definitive evidence.  Nelson said that the foot broke the plane, but there is simply no camera angle that shows it.  I'm sure it was close, but I have not seen a single replay with the angle needed to definitively say whether he broke the BACK plane of the rubber with any part of his free foot.

The step is REALLY borderline, IMO.  But pitchers SHOULD be right at the edge to gain the biggest advantage possible.  Of course, by being right at the edge, they also are more at risk of being called for the balk.

good stuff Steve.

What I'd like to see is a MLB pitcher who ACTUALLY DOES cross the back plane of the rubber w/ his stride foot

[Jimurray]

9 hours ago, udbrky said:

PBUC changed wording a couple years ago, any part of foot.

That wording exists in a 2004 PBUC I have and an old BRD states that J-R has it as an interp. That would at least be from the 90s.

[udbrky]

Bob Bainter discussed it on the Umpire Life FB group. I did not have books back then, so I was just taking his word for it, instead of sticking my head up a butcher's butt.

[stkjock]

1 hour ago, grayhawk said:

I bothers me when people make definitive statements without definitive evidence.  Nelson said that the foot broke the plane, but there is simply no camera angle that shows it.  I'm sure it was close, but I have not seen a single replay with the angle needed to definitively say whether he broke the BACK plane of the rubber with any part of his free foot.

The step is REALLY borderline, IMO.  But pitchers SHOULD be right at the edge to gain the biggest advantage possible.  Of course, by being right at the edge, they also are more at risk of being called for the balk.

so what, if any, interp is there, the free foot has to break the back plane of the pitchers plate or does it have to cross in it's entirety? 

 

 

[Jimurray]

11 minutes ago, stkjock said:

so what, if any, interp is there, the free foot has to break the back plane of the pitchers plate or does it have to cross in it's entirety? 

 

 

OBR, per PBUC, MiLBUM, MLBUM, any part of free foot goes past back edge of rubber. Knee can go past back edge.

NCAA, entire free foot or any part of stride leg passes back plane.

FED, entire free foot goes past back plane.