Best thing to say

[umpire_scott]

So in a previous thread there was mention of coaches asking umpires about another umpires call.  Some on here mentioned that if one time you confirm the other umpires call, but another time said, "that's his call" or something along those lines that you might be giving the impression that you didn't agree with the call.  I can see that perspective.

So this weekend I had a situation doing three-man and I was U3, bases empty so I was in "D".  Ground ball to F4, throw to F3, foot was on the back of the bag and it looked like it pulled a little. I had come inside in case runner went to second.  U1 called BR out.  Third base coach who was also the head coach immediately says to me "Did you have a better angle to see if he pulled his foot?".  In this case I did not and told him so.  But I was thinking what stock answer to you guys give?  Does that answer change if you saw a pulled foot?

[gnhbua93]

I would tell him that I had the same angle that he had and I'm pretty sure that he was making that question up.

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[noumpere]

If it was a really hot day, I'd tell the coach that I did have an angle and make the coach walk run over to U1 to ask U1 to get together and then when we got together I'd confirm the call.

[lawump]

"Whoa, you know how this works.  It doesn't matter what angle I have.  If you want to discuss that call, you go discuss it with him (U1)."

I had a high school playoff game this year (so, we were using a three man crew).  I was on the plate.  Play at first base.  Head coach comes running out of the dugout to me saying he pulled his foot.  (Not the same words as the coach in the OP, admittedly).  I immediately sent him walking to U1.  He begged U1 to get help, U1 refused.  (And U1 should have refused.  U1 had started in "A"; he was in perfect position and was looking right down at the bag.)

As he was walking back to the dugout he stopped and said to me, "I have never had an umpire refuse to get help on that (type of play) when I asked."  (Internally, I was thinking that he must have had a lot of games with umpires who lacked a pair, or he was lying...) I just said, "We have a three man crew today.  Which means he was standing 10-feet from the bag looking right at it.  He had a better look than you and I combined."  He just grumbled and walked off.

Sometimes they just want to shop a call to see if they can buy one.

[MidAmUmp]

My stock answer would be "No."

I would think if a pulled foot was so obvious that I was able to see it on my route to 2nd base, the coach would be on his way over to visit with the 1B umpire instead of asking me if I had an angle. But if not, I would tell him, "That's his call, go talk to him."

[Haid D' Salaami]

19 hours ago, gnhbua93 said:

I would tell him that I had the same angle that he had and I'm pretty sure that he was making that question up.

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But you dont have the same angle.. so really just lied... as U3 there is no way possible with no runners on base and your coming across the infield dirt you can have the same angle.

[MadMax]

You're U3, coming from D, on the move during the play so you can eventually arrive at 2B in case there's an overthrow... and this guy's asking if you had a better angle?

He's totally fishing. It should be that he's fishing in a sandbox expecting to hook trout (as in, impossible) but if you say anything other than what @MidAmUmp says – "No." – you're giving the poor guy hope. Let's give him a wisp of a hair of a benefit of doubt, and concede he's never seen a 3-man crew in action, and doesn't know how it works or its responsibilities. As U3, you are second-next-to-last in order of people to consult on Pulled Foot at 1B (next to last being Everybody Else, last being 1BC). The only part you play in this situation is to call "Time" if 3BC indicates he wants to go ask U1 and/or PU.

I like @noumpere's hope-crushing style. Aside from that, the answer should be "No" or "Not my call."

[maineump]

There is no 'stock answer'. Answer questions short and to the point. In this case, you would be the last one to check with on this play. Say no, as above. Don't lie to the guy, because it hurts credibility.

If he is going to ask about the call or any call you didn't make, send him to the right guy.

You were just convenient being U3 in this case, and he was fishing.

[Forest Ump]

On 7/21/2016 at 3:09 PM, MidAmUmp said:

My stock answer would be "No."

I would think if a pulled foot was so obvious that I was able to see it on my route to 2nd base, the coach would be on his way over to visit with the 1B umpire instead of asking me if I had an angle. But if not, I would tell him, "That's his call, go talk to him."

This. Same as when a batter ask you if that's the top/bottom. Answer yes and move on. Keep answers short. The more you say, the more they can hold it against you.

[blue23ll]

Somebody else: "Is that as high as you are going today?" 

Me : "on that pitch it was"

[VolUmp]

On 7/21/2016 at 1:38 PM, umpire_scott said:

I had come inside in case runner went to second.  U1 called BR out.  Third base coach who was also the head coach immediately says to me "Did you have a better angle to see if he pulled his foot?".  In this case I did not and told him so.  But I was thinking what stock answer to you guys give?  Does that answer change if you saw a pulled foot?

1) I hope you came inside because that's your assignment as soon as in infield grounder is hit ... not "in case" the batter/runner went to second.

2) I believe you are obligated to say, "No" in this case, and furthermore that's U1's call, and he can ask PU for help.  You never have a better angle than the PU and shouldn't even make that your priority.  Your priority is to hustle inside and be prepared for a play at 2nd or a rundown between 1st and 2nd.

I believe most coaches ask the wrong umpire for help because they simply don't know the protocol ... not because they're trying to show someone up or buy a call.  I have no problem explaining, even at the plate meeting, "If you have a question about a call, please call time, and go to the official who made the call.  He will ask for help if he feels it's needed or warranted."  Then if the coach doesn't follow protocol, I just politely remind him to go to that official.

[noumpere]

5 hours ago, WildFlyer said:

I have no problem explaining, even at the plate meeting, "If you have a question about a call, please call time, and go to the official who made the call.  He will ask for help if he feels it's needed or warranted."  Then if the coach doesn't follow protocol, I just politely remind him to go to that official.

That statement *might* be helpful in the first half of the first season for a coach (say, 8U or something).

Beyond that, it just takes us time at best, it gives them the idea that they can ask about everything and that you are going to miss calls at worst.

Edit:  I just realized the thread is months old.  Wile I stand by my comments, I do not wish to contribute to a thread that died peacefully and should be left alone.

 

[GPblue]

6 hours ago, WildFlyer said:

"If you have a question about a call, please call time, and go to the official who made the call.  He will ask for help if he feels it's needed or warranted."  Then if the coach doesn't follow protocol, I just politely remind him to go to that official.

I use this in my pregame at all levels.  Of course it still doesn't stop them from going the wrong place, but puts a precedent in place for when you have to say "coach, you need to go to the official who made the call" and he doesn't think you are being a red a$$

[Jimurray]

1 hour ago, GPblue said:

I use this in my pregame at all levels.  Of course it still doesn't stop them from going the wrong place, but puts a precedent in place for when you have to say "coach, you need to go to the official who made the call" and he doesn't think you are being a red a$$

Please read @noumperes lined thru comment above.