Rotation signals

[jjskitours]

What is/are the proper way for base umpire and plate umpire to communicate rotations in the two-man system. Is this taught at the umpire clinics/camps. I'm mainly referring to R1 and R1, R3 with base hit as well as R1, R2 with less than 2 outs. Any other hand signals besides infield fly and time play that are taught?

[grayhawk]

For a rotation play (R1 only, or R1 & R3), as the PU, I point to third base with my right hand, while at the same time signaling the number of outs.  So with no outs, I point to third with my fist.  For one out, I point to third with my index finger.  For two outs, I point to third with my index and middle fingers (like a "peace" sign).  BU then mirrors this signal by pointing to first base, indicating he has the BR.

For 1st and 2nd, with less than two outs, I give the IFF signal and then tap my fists (right over left) and then point to third which indicates that I have the play into third base on a double tag situation.

I also use the time play signal and staying home.  In any case, these signals are pretty understated - not trying to draw attention to myself.

[noumpere]

 

For 1st and 2nd, with less than two outs, I give the IFF signal and then tap my fists (right over left) and then point to third which indicates that I have the play into third base on a double tag situation.

 

Generally agreed -- especially on the "understated" part.

 

I will point out that in the above, only the "I'll have third on a fly ball" is needed -- you'll only be doing that *if* the conditions for an infield fly are met, so there's no need for both signals.

[grayhawk]

Generally agreed -- especially on the "understated" part.

 

I will point out that in the above, only the "I'll have third on a fly ball" is needed -- you'll only be doing that *if* the conditions for an infield fly are met, so there's no need for both signals.

I suppose that's true, though I find doing the IFF signal is still a good visual reminder.

[maineump]

I have seen many different things - the important thing to do is pre-game it each time, so both partners are on the same page.

Some folks point with 1 hand, or both hands. I have seen the hands make a small circle - depends on the umpire I guess.

[KenBAZ]

I work with dozens of different umpires in the course of a year. What Grayhawk described will work for just about every partner. I also use the infield fly signal, (either a closed fist or an index finger at the hat brim), as well as the double tap for a double tag situation. In addition if the PU signals the count I will flash it back to him to let him know we agree. I have seen the circling of the hands used to either mean I need a reset, I've lost the number of outs, or after action resulting in the same responsibilities for each umpire, let's repeat what we had. Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

[Richvee]

 

 In addition if the PU signals the count I will flash it back to him to let him know we agree.

 

No need. I've been taught do not give the count as BU unless PU asks you. 

[catsbackr]

For a rotation play (R1 only, or R1 & R3), as the PU, I point to third base with my right hand, while at the same time signaling the number of outs.  So with no outs, I point to third with my fist.  For one out, I point to third with my index finger.  For two outs, I point to third with my index and middle fingers (like a "peace" sign).  BU then mirrors this signal by pointing to first base, indicating he has the BR.

For 1st and 2nd, with less than two outs, I give the IFF signal and then tap my fists (right over left) and then point to third which indicates that I have the play into third base on a double tag situation.

I also use the time play signal and staying home.  In any case, these signals are pretty understated - not trying to draw attention to myself.

I'm in a college association, working with different partners from 4 different states and we have zero problems because we all use this exact system.  It's not rocket science and is very understated and works great.

 

However, we tried to institute the same system in our high school association and we were met with extreme resistance from our veterans.  I have absolutely no reason why the resistance, but it was like we were reinventing the wheel or something.  And all of these guys are from the same basic area.

 

Go figure.

[grayhawk]

No need. I've been taught do not give the count as BU unless PU asks you. 

I agree, though many college guys in the area flash a 3-2 after the PU does as a way to indicate they are ready for this "action" pitch.

[noumpere]

I agree, though many college guys in the area flash a 3-2 after the PU does as a way to indicate they are ready for this "action" pitch.

It's also because in 3-man the rotation changes on a 3-2 pitch with two outs and R1 only.

 

Some make the same change in 2-man.

[grayhawk]

It's also because in 3-man the rotation changes on a 3-2 pitch with two outs and R1 only.

 

Some make the same change in 2-man.

Our association made this change last season.  3-2 count with R1 only in 3 man, or 3-2 count with R1 only, or R1 and R3 in 2 man.  PU stays home in those situations.  The theory being that R1 is running on the pitch and PU can't get up to third in time to be set for a call there.

[Richvee]

 

 

However, we tried to institute the same system in our high school association and we were met with extreme resistance from our veterans.  I have absolutely no reason why the resistance, but it was like we were reinventing the wheel or something.  And all of these guys are from the same basic area.

 

Go figure.

Probably the same guys who go nuts when an association wants to institute a uniform change. 

[catsbackr]

Rich,

 

You don't know how right  you are.  Maybe it's not just our association.

[grayhawk]

Rich,

 

You don't know how right  you are.  Maybe it's not just our association.

How did they want to give their signals?

[catsbackr]

They didn't want to use signals at all! I guess they wanted to try and read each other's minds. I'm serious, it was like pulling teeth, still is with many of our veterans. I don't get it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grayhawk]

They didn't want to use signals at all! I guess they wanted to try and read each other's minds. I'm serious, it was like pulling teeth, still is with many of our veterans. I don't get it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I know the type.  If you're PU and signal them, you get a nod back, at best.

I will say this about signals.  I don't like it when I'm the PU and the BU initiates the signals.  I have a natural cadence to working a game, and BU initiating signals tends to throw that cadence off.

[Jimurray]

Our association made this change last season.  3-2 count with R1 only in 3 man, or 3-2 count with R1 only, or R1 and R3 in 2 man.  PU stays home in those situations.  The theory being that R1 is running on the pitch and PU can't get up to third in time to be set for a call there.

I don't see this mechanic in PBUC 2 or 3 man and CCA 2man. CCA 3 man allows a conference to change their mechanic this way. PBUC 3 man has a note that says crews "will" rotate with a 3-2 count. PBUC might have faster umpires than what you have. 

[conbo61]

Probably the same guys who go nuts when an association wants to institute a uniform change. 

You mean anything other than navy?

[KenBAZ]

Our HS evaluators here will note if you fail to signal you responsibilities on each new situation. As a result I do it habitually year round. It helps me maintain focus and know the number of outs. Since we're communicating all the time I also feel more like my partner and I are working a game together rather then each of us working a game. Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

[clasonater]

just make sure if you partner signals that he is staying home, he better stay at the damn plate no matter what happens. 

[conbo61]

Is there a graphic with rotation signals that I can print and attach to my pregame checklist?

It would be great to have something to review with a partner.

 

[noumpere]

Is there a graphic with rotation signals that I can print and attach to my pregame checklist?

It would be great to have something to review with a partner.

 

It's like the difference between British English and Canadian English and US English -- even though some of the words are different, it's close enough that you'll understand each other when the words are said.

 

Going over a printout at a pre-game meeting is way overboard, imo.

[Jimurray]

Is there a graphic with rotation signals that I can print and attach to my pregame checklist?

It would be great to have something to review with a partner.

 

When he does signal this, how so you acknowledge it? I've seen the BU give a wanna hug signal and I don't like it. I just give a head nod and and a point back at them

Edited September 6, 2015 by Jimurray

[Aging_Arbiter]

One thing I'd like to add, is that we (should) pre-game and signal so that we are both/all on the same page, correct?  Now, while I realize that we want to be discreet so as "not to draw attention"..........if something changes MAKE SURE your partner gets the new signal.  Understandably, we don't want to be flailing arms or jumping around, but who gives a rats @‌$$ if the players/coaches/fans see US.....THE UMPIRES.......communicating.  That should tell them that we are on the same page.

[benjix4]

Flashing the count back to the PU is never needed and looks terrible.  If the PU asked you for the count that is different.