Base award

[Cav]

It's cold and muddy, and the concession stand is closed.  It's a non-league opener and you're still trying to get into a groove after four innings behind the plate.  Yet another walk puts B8 on 1B with no outs. 

 

B9 steps in and lifts the first pitch high behind 2B.  (Why not?)

 

F4, F6, both playing back (because their coach is also cold and muddy) along with F8, all converge on the towering fly ball and call for the catch.  Naturally, in my games, at the last second, they all give up and the ball plops down in the soft turf untouched. 

 

You're drifting up the 3B line as R1 comes racing around 2B (his coach is cold and muddy, too.)  Your partner screams, "NO CATCH!  NO CATCH!"  You're tdrying to be helpful, so you give a quick glance to see the BR touch 1B.  When your eyes come back to the antics in short RF, you see the muddy ball heading towards F5 in an attempt to make what will be a close play on R1 at 3B.  You step into fair territory at the cutout, but the ball sails right on by F5 and into the 3B dugout. 

 

You shut it down.

 

You're sure R1 was well past 2B at the TOT, and pretty sure the BR was not.  But, you're not at all sure who exactly made the throw.  Does it matter?  Who gets what?       

 

 

[MPLSUMP]

R1 scores, BR at 3rd. And no, it doesn't matter which fielder threw the ball.

[JaxRolo]

Why is your partner calling "No Catch"

[johnnyg08]

As long as the BR and other runners had reached 1B or their advance base at the time of the throw the position doesn't matter.  

 

That status and/or the position of the player determines either a Time of Pitch aware or a Time of Throw award.

 

Read below:

 

MLBUM:

[bam]

So if we had R2 and he hadn't advanced to 3rd, this is a TOP?  Is that correct?  Award R2 home and BR 2d? 

[Cav]

Why is your partner calling "No Catch"

 

He said, "NO CATCH! NO CATCH!"  In our hypothetical pre-gamed, we agreed that any apparent trouble ball (several fielders converging) in his fly ball coverage area (the V when in B or C) would warrant a catch/no catch call to make sure all the runners, coaches and me, in particular, knew what he ruled.  

[Cav]

You're sure R1 was well past 2B at the TOT, and pretty sure the BR was not.  But, you're not at all sure who exactly made the throw.  Does it matter?  Who gets what?       

 

This is what I wrote.  It should have read, "...and pretty sure the BR was not [past 1B]."

[johnnyg08]

So if we had R2 and he hadn't advanced to 3rd, this is a TOP?  Is that correct?  Award R2 home and BR 2d? 

 

Depends on if it was in infielder or outfielder.  In this case, the award would be the same though regardless of position.  R2 would score, BR depending on his status at the Time of Throw.  It could be 3B if he acquired 1B at the time of throw.  It could be 2B or 3B.

[maven]

I'm having trouble picturing this: R1 is going halfway on the fly ball, and when it drops, he takes off.

 

So, it takes the fielder longer to pick up the ball less than 5 feet from him than it does for that runner to go 45 feet and round 2B? Or he stands there with it until R1 rounds 2B?

 

If the ball was plugged so the fielders couldn't retrieve it, why didn't you kill it?

 

I'm missing something.

[Rich Ives]

 

 

So, it takes the fielder longer to pick up the ball less than 5 feet from him than it does for that runner to go 45 feet and round 2B? Or he stands there with it until R1 rounds 2B?

 

 

Depends on the age group. And it's not "the" fielder - there are three of them standing around the ball. I can easily envision a "you pick it up" screw-up in younger age groups.

[noumpere]

I'm having trouble picturing this: R1 is going halfway on the fly ball, and when it drops, he takes off.

 

So, it takes the fielder longer to pick up the ball less than 5 feet from him than it does for that runner to go 45 feet and round 2B? Or he stands there with it until R1 rounds 2B?

 

If the ball was plugged so the fielders couldn't retrieve it, why didn't you kill it?

 

I'm missing something.

I read it as "R1 runs when the ball is hit, even though fewer than two are out."

[Cav]

I'm having trouble picturing this: R1 is going halfway on the fly ball, and when it drops, he takes off.

 

So, it takes the fielder longer to pick up the ball less than 5 feet from him than it does for that runner to go 45 feet and round 2B? Or he stands there with it until R1 rounds 2B?

 

If the ball was plugged so the fielders couldn't retrieve it, why didn't you kill it?

 

I'm missing something.

 

It's an esoteric exercise.  

 

Let's say R1 had prior experience with these fielders and intuitively knew they weren't going to handle the trouble fly ball.  He busted for 2d, saw or sensed the fly ball plop to the ground and continued on while the perps sorted it out.

 

 

 

 

[Cav]

 

So if we had R2 and he hadn't advanced to 3rd, this is a TOP?  Is that correct?  Award R2 home and BR 2d? 

 

Depends on if it was in infielder or outfielder.  In this case, the award would be the same though regardless of position.  R2 would score, BR depending on his status at the Time of Throw.  It could be 3B if he acquired 1B at the time of throw.  It could be 2B or 3B.

 

 

I specifically structured the situation so that R2 was between 2B and 3B and the BR was short of 1B at the TOT.  So, BOTH hadn't advanced at least one base at the TOT.  If they BOTH had advanced one base, then the award would be 2 from the TOT regardless if an infielder or outfielder threw it. 

 

But, because they BOTH had not advanced one base, then does it really matter who threw the ball from the outfield?  I'm thinking it does, but then again, maybe not.  I gotta say, after a few deca...years calling this game, I haven't paid all that close attention.    

 

 

[johnnyg08]

then does it really matter who threw the ball from the outfield?  I'm thinking it does, but then again, maybe not.

Nope, doesn't matter. I think @MPLSUMP nailed it very early on.

[Cav]

 

Nope, doesn't matter. I think @MPLSUMP nailed it very early on.

 

 

OBR and NFHS (NCAA, too, but I no longer do that game intentionally) rules, I'm sure you know they read: 1st play by an infielder, 2 from TOP; by an outfielder, 2 from TOT.  Why do you and MPLSUMP say it doesn't matter?

 

[johnnyg08]

Nope, doesn't matter. I think @MPLSUMP nailed it very early on.

 

OBR and NFHS (NCAA, too, but I no longer do that game intentionally) rules, I'm sure you know they read: 1st play by an infielder, 2 from TOP; by an outfielder, 2 from TOT.  Why do you and MPLSUMP say it doesn't matter?

Because in this case, regardless of the defensive player's position, we're putting B/R at 2B and scoring R2.

At least that's my take, I don't want to speak for @MPLSUMP

[Cav]

 

 

Nope, doesn't matter. I think @MPLSUMP nailed it very early on.

 

OBR and NFHS (NCAA, too, but I no longer do that game intentionally) rules, I'm sure you know they read: 1st play by an infielder, 2 from TOP; by an outfielder, 2 from TOT.  Why do you and MPLSUMP say it doesn't matter?

 

Because in this case, regardless of the defensive player's position, we're putting B/R at 2B and scoring R2.

At least that's my take, I don't want to speak for @MPLSUMP

 

 

The rules support that call if the throw were from an outfielder.  But, if it were the 1st play (throw to retire a runner) by an infielder, then at the TOP we had R1 and the BR and they would get 3B and 2B, respectively.  Is there something out there that interprets this differently?

[MPLSUMP]

I was saying B/R gets 3B because he was short of 2B in your OP. If the B/R was shot by a sniper from a window in the closed concession stand and short of 1B when this high pop up fell, then by all means keep him at 2B. I definitely saw the B/R reach 1B before the throw was made though.

[johnnyg08]

The rules support that call if the throw were from an outfielder.  But, if it were the 1st play (throw to retire a runner) by an infielder, then at the TOP we had R1 and the BR and they would get 3B and 2B, respectively.  Is there something out there that interprets this differently?

Yes...it's a two base award in both cases. R2 scores either way.

The American Sniper leg wounds the batter/runner so based on your OP, he only gets 2B as @MPLSUMP so eloquently stated.

[Cav]

 

You're sure R1 was well past 2B at the TOT, and pretty sure the BR was not.  But, you're not at all sure who exactly made the throw.  Does it matter?  Who gets what?       

 

This is what I wrote.  It should have read, "...and pretty sure the BR was not [past 1B]."

 

 

I contributed to the confusion by not wording exactly what I had pictured in my head. 

 

So, then, it does matter who (F5 or F6 in the outfield or F8) pulled that muddy ball up from the soft turf and threw it? 

[johnnyg08]

You're sure R1 was well past 2B at the TOT, and pretty sure the BR was not.  But, you're not at all sure who exactly made the throw.  Does it matter?  Who gets what?

 

This is what I wrote.  It should have read, "...and pretty sure the BR was not [past 1B]."

 

I contributed to the confusion by not wording exactly what I had pictured in my head. 

 

So, then, it does matter who (F5 or F6 in the outfield or F8) pulled that muddy ball up from the soft turf and threw it?

Not in this case because the award is the same.

[Majordave]

All I have is when you described THREE fielders having a play and no one making it is a scene from Major League where they let one drop and Willlie Mays Hays spins in a circle going Ooooooooooooooooo!

Funny as hell!

[ricka56]

Why isn't the misplayed fly ball considered to be the first play by an infielder ?

[Richvee]

Why isn't the misplayed fly ball considered to be the first play by an infielder ?

For the purpose of this rule, the act of fielding a ball isn't considered a play. 

[johnnyg08]

Why isn't the misplayed fly ball considered to be the first play by an infielder ?

By rule, that's not a "play" for the purpose of this situation.

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