Question #77

[Sayhey]

Please re-direct because we have discussed this but I can't find it. Not sure what the title is. I got a look at the PowerPoint picture of the batter hitting the ball with his front foot in the air and than his "stride through" places his foot completely outside the batter's box and on the ground and then the ball strikes his shin. Hopefully you're with me.

Feds. Are calling this a foul ball. Does this contradict O.B.R? Isn't the batter being struck with a fair batted ball?

Feds. Are saying one foot in the box means you are in the box. Doesn't this contradict O.B.R,?

[Richvee]

http://umpire-empire.com/index.php/topic/60483-nfhs-rules-presentation/

[noumpere]

Please re-direct because we have discussed this but I can't find it. Not sure what the title is. I got a look at the PowerPoint picture of the batter hitting the ball with his front foot in the air and than his "stride through" places his foot completely outside the batter's box and on the ground and then the ball strikes his shin. Hopefully you're with me.

Feds. Are calling this a foul ball. Does this contradict O.B.R? Isn't the batter being struck with a fair batted ball?

Feds. Are saying one foot in the box means you are in the box. Doesn't this contradict O.B.R,?

In FED (not OBR), for the purposes ogf "being hit by a batted ball", the batter is considered to still be in the box if one foot is in the box.

 

The restrictions on "hitting a pitched ball" remain the same.

[Sayhey]

Question #77- B-1 is crowding the front edge of the batter's box and legally hits the pitch. His stride through with his swing places his front foot on the ground in front and outside the batter's box while his back foot remains in the box. The batted ball bounces up and accidentally hits B-1's

Front leg.

A- Foul ball

B- Fair Ball

C- B-1 is immediately declared out

D- B-1 is awarded 1st base

My apologies for not including the question. I thought everyone takes the Federation test and knew we were talking about question # 77. San Diego studies the mlb rules and then makes adjustments to high school. Crew chief Mike Winters is the 12 week instructor. Nice of him to give back to baseball. Great guy. I got a copy of his mlb rule book with his personal notes. Very cool. I got this question wrong. I declared him out. We simply have another difference between Fed. Rules and O.B.R. Glad we have Carl Childress.

[johnnyg08]

It's an official interpretation this year possibly #16...Foul ball.

[Sayhey]

Sorry, I posted twice. Still learning the system. Thanks for letting me be part of Umpire Empire. I learn a lot. What do you think of kicking the lines out in front of the box?

[johnnyg08]

Sorry, I posted twice. Still learning the system. Thanks for letting me be part of Umpire Empire. I learn a lot. What do you think of kicking the lines out in front of the box?

If a lead off hitter kicks my lines out at the beginning of the game, we're redrawing the lines.

[Sayhey]

An umpire suggested we do it as an umpire. I don't see mlb umpires do it.

[johnnyg08]

An umpire suggested we do it as an umpire. I don't see mlb umpires do it.

 

I would submit to you that doing that would be a poor example of umpiring.

[ricka56]

 

An umpire suggested we do it as an umpire. I don't see mlb umpires do it.

 

I would submit to you that doing that would be a poor example of umpiring.

 

If there is a catcher's box, I'm trashing it too. Anyone calling a balk because F2 isn't inside the lines ?

 

I have never called a batter out for hitting the ball outside the BB. I would consider doing so OOO. And if a batted ball goes down and comes up and immediately touches batter, it is a foul ball.

 

Rules and penalties have been created to prevent cheating. None of what is being disgusted here is cheating. No need for an umpire to look for an out here...unless of course you are taking a rules exam.

[johnnyg08]

 

 

An umpire suggested we do it as an umpire. I don't see mlb umpires do it.

 

I would submit to you that doing that would be a poor example of umpiring.

 

If there is a catcher's box, I'm trashing it too. Anyone calling a balk because F2 isn't inside the lines ?

 

I have never called a batter out for hitting the ball outside the BB. I would consider doing so OOO. And if a batted ball goes down and comes up and immediately touches batter, it is a foul ball.

 

Rules and penalties have been created to prevent cheating. None of what is being disgusted here is cheating. No need for an umpire to look for an out here...unless of course you are taking a rules exam.

 

 

Right and the rules say that there will be batter's boxes.  Kicking them out is poor form.  BTW, I agree with your style of enforcement, but we're pretty far apart on kicking out the lines.  To piggy back off of your thread, the ball could also come straight up and hit the bat twice too and it would also be foul.

[JonnyCat]

 

 

An umpire suggested we do it as an umpire. I don't see mlb umpires do it.

 

I would submit to you that doing that would be a poor example of umpiring.

 

If there is a catcher's box, I'm trashing it too. Anyone calling a balk because F2 isn't inside the lines ?

 

I have never called a batter out for hitting the ball outside the BB. I would consider doing so OOO. And if a batted ball goes down and comes up and immediately touches batter, it is a foul ball.

 

Rules and penalties have been created to prevent cheating. None of what is being disgusted here is cheating. No need for an umpire to look for an out here...unless of course you are taking a rules exam.

 

Couldn't agree more! Definately OOO.

[JaxRolo]

I think people are misreading what FEDS are trying to say with this picture.

[Richvee]

 

 

 

An umpire suggested we do it as an umpire. I don't see mlb umpires do it.

 

I would submit to you that doing that would be a poor example of umpiring.

 

If there is a catcher's box, I'm trashing it too. Anyone calling a balk because F2 isn't inside the lines ?

 

I have never called a batter out for hitting the ball outside the BB. I would consider doing so OOO. And if a batted ball goes down and comes up and immediately touches batter, it is a foul ball.

 

Rules and penalties have been created to prevent cheating. None of what is being disgusted here is cheating. No need for an umpire to look for an out here...unless of course you are taking a rules exam.

 

Couldn't agree more! Definately OOO.

 

Interesting. You've never had a LHH drag bunt and be a full step up the line before contacting the ball? Or a RHH take a full step across the plate to bunt a ball that was outside? Granted we're not going to see it often, and we better be 100% sure of what we saw when we call it. But OOO? I respectfully disagree.

 

 I called it for the 1st time in 5 years this summer. RHH shuffled forward, then took a full step across the front of the plate with his left foot before bunting the outside pitch. Did he try to gain an unfair advantage? He sure did. He was a step and a half towards 1st before he contacted the ball. Was I being an OOO? I sure don't think so. BTW, didn't hear a peep from anyone after the call. 

[JonnyCat]

 

 

 

 

An umpire suggested we do it as an umpire. I don't see mlb umpires do it.

 

I would submit to you that doing that would be a poor example of umpiring.

 

If there is a catcher's box, I'm trashing it too. Anyone calling a balk because F2 isn't inside the lines ?

 

I have never called a batter out for hitting the ball outside the BB. I would consider doing so OOO. And if a batted ball goes down and comes up and immediately touches batter, it is a foul ball.

 

Rules and penalties have been created to prevent cheating. None of what is being disgusted here is cheating. No need for an umpire to look for an out here...unless of course you are taking a rules exam.

 

Couldn't agree more! Definately OOO.

 

Interesting. You've never had a LHH drag bunt and be a full step up the line before contacting the ball? Or a RHH take a full step across the plate to bunt a ball that was outside? Granted we're not going to see it often, and we better be 100% sure of what we saw when we call it. But OOO? I respectfully disagree.

 

 I called it for the 1st time in 5 years this summer. RHH shuffled forward, then took a full step across the front of the plate with his left foot before bunting the outside pitch. Did he try to gain an unfair advantage? He sure did. He was a step and a half towards 1st before he contacted the ball. Was I being an OOO? I sure don't think so. BTW, didn't hear a peep from anyone after the call. 

 

In those specific instances, I agree with you Rich, and I really think that is what the rule is intended for. Although it has never happened to me, I do advocate enforcing the rule when it is a bunt situation and the batter is clearly out of the box and God and everyone else can see his foot out of the box. Generally in those situations the batter turns well before the pitch, and it is easier to pick up the violation. I maintain that on a regular swing, if you are doing your job, tracking the pitch and watching the hit ball, it is almost impossible for you to know 100% if his foot was entirely on the ground outside the box when making contact with the ball. Especially if you have fair/foul responsibilities on a hit ball. I apologize for the unclear post. I did not mean that enforcing the rule at anytime was OOO. I think there are times when it is appropriate.

[Richvee]

 

 

 

 

 

An umpire suggested we do it as an umpire. I don't see mlb umpires do it.

 

I would submit to you that doing that would be a poor example of umpiring.

 

If there is a catcher's box, I'm trashing it too. Anyone calling a balk because F2 isn't inside the lines ?

 

I have never called a batter out for hitting the ball outside the BB. I would consider doing so OOO. And if a batted ball goes down and comes up and immediately touches batter, it is a foul ball.

 

Rules and penalties have been created to prevent cheating. None of what is being disgusted here is cheating. No need for an umpire to look for an out here...unless of course you are taking a rules exam.

 

Couldn't agree more! Definately OOO.

 

Interesting. You've never had a LHH drag bunt and be a full step up the line before contacting the ball? Or a RHH take a full step across the plate to bunt a ball that was outside? Granted we're not going to see it often, and we better be 100% sure of what we saw when we call it. But OOO? I respectfully disagree.

 

 I called it for the 1st time in 5 years this summer. RHH shuffled forward, then took a full step across the front of the plate with his left foot before bunting the outside pitch. Did he try to gain an unfair advantage? He sure did. He was a step and a half towards 1st before he contacted the ball. Was I being an OOO? I sure don't think so. BTW, didn't hear a peep from anyone after the call. 

 

In those specific instances, I agree with you Rich, and I really think that is what the rule is intended for. Although it has never happened to me, I do advocate enforcing the rule when it is a bunt situation and the batter is clearly out of the box and God and everyone else can see his foot out of the box. Generally in those situations the batter turns well before the pitch, and it is easier to pick up the violation. I maintain that on a regular swing, if you are doing your job, tracking the pitch and watching the hit ball, it is almost impossible for you to know 100% if his foot was entirely on the ground outside the box when making contact with the ball. Especially if you have fair/foul responsibilities on a hit ball. I apologize for the unclear post. I did not mean that enforcing the rule at anytime was OOO. I think there are times when it is appropriate.

 

Agree. Trying to see it on a regular swing, you're not doing your job tracking the pitch. 

[Kevin_K]

Agree. Trying to see it on a regular swing, you're not doing your job tracking the pitch. 

 

I have called that on a batter who started his normal stance with his front foot on the pitcher's side of the front line on a turf field that had painted boxes. He swung at the first pitch and he had an enormous stride. The second pitch he took the same position and this time made contact. I killed it, called him out and heard his coach say "How many times have I told you?"

[Sayhey]

The pitcher would like to see this called an out. He has beaten the batter and would like a reward. Does he deserve a reward of a strike or an out? I envisioned this as a drag bunt when I read the quiz. The picture is nothing close to a drag bunt.

[noumpere]

The pitcher would like to see this called an out. He has beaten the batter and would like a reward. Does he deserve a reward of a strike or an out? I envisioned this as a drag bunt when I read the quiz. The picture is nothing close to a drag bunt.

Are you trying to discuss what the rule *should be*, or are you asking for help in understanding what the rule *is*?

 

We've told you what the rule is for FED (foul ball) -- and given that it's a change this year, it's not surprising that there's a question (or more) on a FED rules test about it.

[johnnyg08]

READ the interpretation!! It's a foul ball.  Plain and simple.  As it should be in my opinion.

Since we're too lazy to look it up, I will enable the masses and post the interpretation here! Geez.

SITUATION 16: The batter legally contacts the pitch with his bat and his lead foot then lands on the ground outside of the batter’s box. The batted ball contacts the ground in front of home plate and spins back, contacting the batter’s leg that is outside the batter’s box. RULING: This is a foul ball. With one foot still in the batter’s box, the batter is considered to be in the batter’s box at the time he was contacted by the batted ball. (2-16-1g)

 

You're welcome.

[Sayhey]

So easily annoyed. Patience is a characteristic of a good umpire. If you go back and read the thread you will see that an umpire said that no one is looking for an out on this. The pitcher wants an out. So does his coach. It is an out in O.B.R. Not sure that you know that your statement shows arrogance and a lack of patience. Is this how you treat your partners at the ballpark? I am not to lazy too look the rule up. I studied the rule and the casebook and the photo. I spoke to other umpires about it as we studied together. There is nothing plain and simple about it. It contradicts O.B.R. And the picture provided by the Buffoons out of Indianapolis that is suppose to clear things up made the rule even more confusing. I missed the question on the test as did many other umpires. I have a suggestion of what you can do with your exclamation point and your Geez

[noumpere]

So easily annoyed. Patience is a characteristic of a good umpire. If you go back and read the thread you will see that an umpire said that no one is looking for an out on this. The pitcher wants an out. So does his coach. It is an out in O.B.R. Not sure that you know that your statement shows arrogance and a lack of patience. Is this how you treat your partners at the ballpark? I am not to lazy too look the rule up. I studied the rule and the casebook and the photo. I spoke to other umpires about it as we studied together. There is nothing plain and simple about it. It contradicts O.B.R. And the picture provided by the Buffoons out of Indianapolis that is suppose to clear things up made the rule even more confusing. I missed the question on the test as did many other umpires. I have a suggestion of what you can do with your exclamation point and your Geez

 

Withdrawn.

[Sayhey]

Such passive aggressive anger. Childish really.

[johnnyg08]

So easily annoyed. Patience is a characteristic of a good umpire. If you go back and read the thread you will see that an umpire said that no one is looking for an out on this. The pitcher wants an out. So does his coach. It is an out in O.B.R. Not sure that you know that your statement shows arrogance and a lack of patience. Is this how you treat your partners at the ballpark? I am not to lazy too look the rule up. I studied the rule and the casebook and the photo. I spoke to other umpires about it as we studied together. There is nothing plain and simple about it. It contradicts O.B.R. And the picture provided by the Buffoons out of Indianapolis that is suppose to clear things up made the rule even more confusing. I missed the question on the test as did many other umpires. I have a suggestion of what you can do with your exclamation point and your Geez

 

I did say "we" it's easy to lose patience when what one wants and what one gets by rule are not related.  

 

At that point, the discussion is over.  I don't really care about the OBR rule...or what they do in softball as is often the argument

[Thunderheads]

So easily annoyed. Patience is a characteristic of a good umpire. If you go back and read the thread you will see that an umpire said that no one is looking for an out on this. The pitcher wants an out. So does his coach. It is an out in O.B.R. Not sure that you know that your statement shows arrogance and a lack of patience. Is this how you treat your partners at the ballpark? I am not to lazy too look the rule up. I studied the rule and the casebook and the photo. I spoke to other umpires about it as we studied together. There is nothing plain and simple about it. It contradicts O.B.R. And the picture provided by the Buffoons out of Indianapolis that is suppose to clear things up made the rule even more confusing. I missed the question on the test as did many other umpires. I have a suggestion of what you can do with your exclamation point and your Geez

thin skin isn't an attribute of an umpire either.

 

the point being made is that it's been clarified (rule), and it seems to just keep going.  This gets aggravating sometimes .... it's not like someone called you an idiot, jerk, dumba$$ or anything of the like.

 

Calm please ....