Eject or Not Eject?

[Cav]

Thanks, but I don't need to be out ahead; somewhere in the middle or even tail-end Charlie is fine with me.

[Magic]

I make a terrible strike 2 call on a very low curve ball. The 3rd base coach calls time out and walks towards me and says, " I don't argue balls and strikes but your strike zone sucks tonight"...

Eject or Not Eject?

I said, "That's enough coach" and he walked away talking under his breath.

I wouldn't have ejected for it. Depending on the relationship you have with the coach, will depend how you handle things from the "Your Strike Zone Sucks." I have ranged from "Yeah I am a little off tonight. But I am working hard to pull it together for you." To "Coach we are not discussing My Strike Zone today."

I do agree with you that some people take everything that is posted on here and turn it inside out. So I am usually real careful with what I post. Don't take everyone's post to heart. There are a lot of guys that will give you good advice. Weed through the posts and use the stuff that is important. And the rest? Just toss them in the trash.

Games worked 5

[WIUMP]

One of the issues I find most intriguing about U-E is the swiftness with which many say they would dump a player, coach or manager. I know every situation is different and the heat of the moment can't be adequately explained on a message board. In almost 30 years of playing, coaching and spectating all levels amature baseball I can count on one hand the number of ejections I've witnessed. All but one of them were for egregious offenses—players leaving dugout to argue, malicious contact, etc. I'm not suggesting that we get great game management from the umpires around here; some are terrible, most are unremarkable at best, only a handful or two that I've had are really good. Umpires around here, even in some of the MSBL sh!tshow games just do not eject with the frequency that guys on here tell us they do.

[ALStripes17]

One of the issues I find most intriguing about U-E is the swiftness with which many say they would dump a player, coach or manager. I know every situation is different and the heat of the moment can't be adequately explained on a message board. In almost 30 years of playing, coaching and spectating all levels amature baseball I can count on one hand the number of ejections I've witnessed. All but one of them were for egregious offenses—players leaving dugout to argue, malicious contact, etc. I'm not suggesting that we get great game management from the umpires around here; some are terrible, most are unremarkable at best, only a handful or two that I've had are really good. Umpires around here, even in some of the MSBL sh!tshow games just do not eject with the frequency that guys on here tell us they do.

The stories of the coaches coming out to be nice and courteous while objecting to a call also don't make it to this forum.

Sidenote: Youth ball and travel ball are different birds. Travel ball parents don't pay 'good' money for me to take verbal assault or disrespect either. Coaches earn their ejections - we don't give them out like lollipops at the bank

[Replacematt]

One of the issues I find most intriguing about U-E is the swiftness with which many say they would dump a player, coach or manager. I know every situation is different and the heat of the moment can't be adequately explained on a message board. In almost 30 years of playing, coaching and spectating all levels amature baseball I can count on one hand the number of ejections I've witnessed. All but one of them were for egregious offenses—players leaving dugout to argue, malicious contact, etc. I'm not suggesting that we get great game management from the umpires around here; some are terrible, most are unremarkable at best, only a handful or two that I've had are really good. Umpires around here, even in some of the MSBL sh!tshow games just do not eject with the frequency that guys on here tell us they do.

 

In every scenario that gets posted here that I say I would eject, I would indeed eject. The reason I don't have a thousand ejections is because what you see here is the combined story of a thousand umpires. I don't have every one of these situations, but if I did, I would end up with a thousand ejections. Of course, I'd also have a thousand times the number of games worked.

[grayhawk]

 

The stories of the coaches coming out to be nice and courteous while objecting to a call also don't make it to this forum.

 

 

That's true.  I was BU yesterday when R1 slid into second with F4 on the bag.  He slid hard, but straight in and below the knee.  He slid a little past the bag.  F4 was hurt (took a spike in the ankle) and DC was upset that I didn't call FPSR.  Told him I had his player on the bag, and the slide was legal - that it was just a hard baseball play.  He respectfully argued his point (which had no merit), didn't prolong it, and walked off.  

[Recontra]

 

That's true.  I was BU yesterday when R1 slid into second with F4 on the bag.  He slid hard, but straight in and below the knee.  He slid a little past the bag.  F4 was hurt (took a spike in the ankle) and DC was upset that I didn't call FPSR.  Told him I had his player on the bag, and the slide was legal - that it was just a hard baseball play.  He respectfully argued his point (which had no merit), didn't prolong it, and walked off.

 

Great example of a classy professional amateur umpire doing his job professionally and a classy professional amateur manager doing his job professionally. It ain't personal, it's just baseball--how it was meant to be played. 

[Rulekeep]

The correlation is: in another life, I used to deal with a lot of switches, dials, thumbwheels, levers, lights and indicators; usually without incident. Now, in this life, I move my cursor to "quote," right click the mouse, and...nothing. Others quote posts, but I, techie that I am, cannot.

There's your problem right there, you explained it yourself. LEFT CLICK on the quote button and I assure you it shall work.

[Cav]

 

The correlation is: in another life, I used to deal with a lot of switches, dials, thumbwheels, levers, lights and indicators; usually without incident. Now, in this life, I move my cursor to "quote," right click the mouse, and...nothing. Others quote posts, but I, techie that I am, cannot.

There's your problem right there, you explained it yourself. LEFT CLICK on the quote button and I assure you it shall work.

 

 

That's just what I'm talking about; all this fancy, new technology!  Right click: left click.  It's all so complicated.  The next thing you know, they will probably allow Instant Replay in pro games.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the help.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Excuse me while I go get this egg off my face.)

[Thunderheads]

 

Does one of the 3 P's not stand for "personal?"

Yes, and his comment was not personal. It was about my strike zone today -- and maybe really about the bad call I just made -- not about me.

Personal is: "you suck." If you have to work harder than that to find it personal, then it isn't.

As ever, coach is entitled to his opinion.

maven

 

I see no distinction between "your strike zone sucks" ....and "you suck" ........ implied personal.  I mean, how is your strike zone not about YOU as a plate umpire?  He's questioning your judgement.

[johnnyg08]

 

 

Does one of the 3 P's not stand for "personal?"

Yes, and his comment was not personal. It was about my strike zone today -- and maybe really about the bad call I just made -- not about me.

Personal is: "you suck." If you have to work harder than that to find it personal, then it isn't.

As ever, coach is entitled to his opinion.

maven

 

I see no distinction between "your strike zone sucks" ....and "you suck" ........ implied personal.  I mean, how is your strike zone not about YOU as a plate umpire?  He's questioning your judgement.

 

 

And likely showing you up in front of both teams and the crowd.  

[GreyhoundAggie]

 

 

The stories of the coaches coming out to be nice and courteous while objecting to a call also don't make it to this forum.

 

 

That's true.  I was BU yesterday when R1 slid into second with F4 on the bag.  He slid hard, but straight in and below the knee.  He slid a little past the bag.  F4 was hurt (took a spike in the ankle) and DC was upset that I didn't call FPSR.  Told him I had his player on the bag, and the slide was legal - that it was just a hard baseball play.  He respectfully argued his point (which had no merit), didn't prolong it, and walked off.  

 

Which rule set was this under?

[Thunderheads]

 

 

 

The stories of the coaches coming out to be nice and courteous while objecting to a call also don't make it to this forum.

 

 

That's true.  I was BU yesterday when R1 slid into second with F4 on the bag.  He slid hard, but straight in and below the knee.  He slid a little past the bag.  F4 was hurt (took a spike in the ankle) and DC was upset that I didn't call FPSR.  Told him I had his player on the bag, and the slide was legal - that it was just a hard baseball play.  He respectfully argued his point (which had no merit), didn't prolong it, and walked off.  

 

Which rule set was this under?

 

has to be FED

[johnnyg08]

I'd be careful saying that he slid a little past the bag to the coach.  (it's likely that you didn't say that) 

 

If you did, you are admitting to misapplying a rule.  

[maven]

I see no distinction between "your strike zone sucks" ....and "you suck" ........ implied personal.  I mean, how is your strike zone not about YOU as a plate umpire?  He's questioning your judgement.

Implied personal isn't.

 

"You missed that call" becomes personal on your reading: after all, I made the call, using my judgment. That bar is WAY too low.

[Thunderheads]

 

I see no distinction between "your strike zone sucks" ....and "you suck" ........ implied personal.  I mean, how is your strike zone not about YOU as a plate umpire?  He's questioning your judgement.

Implied personal isn't.

 

"You missed that call" becomes personal on your reading: after all, I made the call, using my judgment. That bar is WAY too low.

 

I understand what you're saying about "implied" and you've supported that clearly w/ "you missed that call".  He's talking to "me" and that's his opinion.

 

But-

So you're saying that:

 

"You're strike zone sucks today"  is different than "You're terrible today"?   

 

That's the same as:  "you're awful"  or, forget the zone, just "you suck"

 

I'm not letting him get away with that, ...and I basically don't even have a trigger finger! LOL

[aiber]

Did the championship game of the team of the coach that told me that my strike zone sucks....I was kind've concerned that he would get stupid and I would have to toss him. I had the plate. During the meeting at the plate, we shook hands and he said, "my bad the other night".....I responded, "already forgotten"...No issues during the game whatsoever....In retrospect, glad that I didn't toss him...

[GreyhoundAggie]

I'd be careful saying that he slid a little past the bag to the coach.  (it's likely that you didn't say that) 

 

If you did, you are admitting to misapplying a rule.  

Thus why I asked.

[johnnyg08]

Did the championship game of the team of the coach that told me that my strike zone sucks....I was kind've concerned that he would get stupid and I would have to toss him. I had the plate. During the meeting at the plate, we shook hands and he said, "my bad the other night".....I responded, "already forgotten"...No issues during the game whatsoever....In retrospect, glad that I didn't toss him...

 

What would've made it different if you'd have tossed him?

[aiber]

Did the championship game of the team of the coach that told me that my strike zone sucks....I was kind've concerned that he would get stupid and I would have to toss him. I had the plate. During the meeting at the plate, we shook hands and he said, "my bad the other night".....I responded, "already forgotten"...No issues during the game whatsoever....In retrospect, glad that I didn't toss him...

 

What would've made it different if you'd have tossed him?[/

Really? Where do I start? First of all, he was apologetic and admitted that he was wrong. Secondly, all of the parents, players and other coaches would've felt, there's the "ass" that tossed our coach. Also, they probably wouldn't have made it to the championship game without their 3rd base coach....

[johnnyg08]

They probably think there's the guy with the crappy strike zone.  Of course he apologized, you're back on the stick for his championship game.  What else would you expect him to do?  

 

I guess I don't carry a whole lot of ejection guilt.  

 

There's one person who puts the EJ wheels in motion and it's not the umpire.  

[zm1283]

 

 

Did the championship game of the team of the coach that told me that my strike zone sucks....I was kind've concerned that he would get stupid and I would have to toss him. I had the plate. During the meeting at the plate, we shook hands and he said, "my bad the other night".....I responded, "already forgotten"...No issues during the game whatsoever....In retrospect, glad that I didn't toss him...

 

What would've made it different if you'd have tossed him?[/

Really? Where do I start? First of all, he was apologetic and admitted that he was wrong. Secondly, all of the parents, players and other coaches would've felt, there's the "ass" that tossed our coach. Also, they probably wouldn't have made it to the championship game without their 3rd base coach....

 

What difference does any of this make to you? Maybe if you ran him, the players/parents/other coaches would know that you don't put up with coaches acting like jackwagons on the field.

 

In an NCAA game, this would definitely get at least a ball/strike warning, even on the first offense. Of course most, if not all, college coaches have enough sense to not do this. 

 

On another note, I'm tired of the "Travel ball parents paid a lot of money"/"It's for the kids" garbage. If I have to take their bullsh*t to get games because they paid money and drove four hours to the tournament, I'll work something else. 

[bds53]

There is reality and then there is garbage. Fact is that most administrators could care less about the umpires. Most people that bring tournaments to a town will do anything for the money. Trust me, I deal with this fight daily! I've been told time and again that while the umpires are important, if a tournament coach is upset with an official, the official in question will either not work that coach's game anymore or the official is going home. It's about money 95% of the time. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but telling exactly what I've been told now and in the past. People come to town, spend money, and make the town better for those that live there.

Because I've been told that, I have to take a more hands on approach to protect my officials and protect my organization. That is why I have multiple umpire meetings, why I am at most games, etc. That's my full time gig. Now, if a coach crosses the line then he should absolutely be ejected. However, to eject a coach without that coach giving the criteria is a joke. We all deal with jerks, but sometimes you have to take it on the chin especially when you have an off day. Give rope, but draw the line once he crosses it. Warn, then eject. That's all I'm saying

[aiber]

They probably think there's the guy with the crappy strike zone.  Of course he apologized, you're back on the stick for his championship game.  What else would you expect him to do?  

 

I guess I don't carry a whole lot of ejection guilt.  

 

There's one person who puts the EJ wheels in motion and it's not the umpire.

They could think that I have a crappy zone... I don't care. I am confident and know that I am good....of course he apologized? Trust me sir that he could've very easily stayed quiet and not brought it up or even been an ass. You may think that he was simply kissing my ass and I think he was sincere... As an umpire I feel that the umpire failed also when there is an ejection. (99% of the time)... Coaches don't want to get ejected.

[johnnyg08]

 

They probably think there's the guy with the crappy strike zone.  Of course he apologized, you're back on the stick for his championship game.  What else would you expect him to do?  

 

I guess I don't carry a whole lot of ejection guilt.  

 

There's one person who puts the EJ wheels in motion and it's not the umpire.

They could think that I have a crappy zone... I don't care. I am confident and know that I am good....of course he apologized? Trust me sir that he could've very easily stayed quiet and not brought it up or even been an ass. You may think that he was simply kissing my ass and I think he was sincere... As an umpire I feel that the umpire failed also when there is an ejection. (99% of the time)... Coaches don't want to get ejected.

 

 

99% huh?