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Eject or Not Eject?


aiber

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Well, here are the 2014 numbers from MLB:

  • Umpires were 71.7% accurate on calls associated with ejection, an increase over 2013.

 

  • Most ejections occurred in the 8th inning; Ejections from 6th and on comprised 63% of all tosses.

 

  • Most ejections occurred on Sundays. Weekend series (Fri-Sun) featured 52% of all heave-ho's.

 

  • The most common reason for ejection was Balls/Strikes, followed by arguing a Replay Review.

 

Courtesy Gil at Close Call Sports

 

http://www.closecallsports.com/2014/09/mlb-ejection-replay-stats-2014-season.html

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I'm calling BS. I've played on teams where the manager decided, "it's time to get tossed" to prove a point.

That's the 1 %

I've managed teams and said "well, I can't take any more of this SH*#ty umpire!  Time to go get tossed!"

Yeah but is because he was a sh&&&ty umpire. The umpire is to blame also....

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They probably think there's the guy with the crappy strike zone.  Of course he apologized, you're back on the stick for his championship game.  What else would you expect him to do?  

 

I guess I don't carry a whole lot of ejection guilt.  

 

There's one person who puts the EJ wheels in motion and it's not the umpire.

They could think that I have a crappy zone... I don't care. I am confident and know that I am good....of course he apologized? Trust me sir that he could've very easily stayed quiet and not brought it up or even been an ass. You may think that he was simply kissing my ass and I think he was sincere... As an umpire I feel that the umpire failed also when there is an ejection. (99% of the time)... Coaches don't want to get ejected.

 

 

Let me guess: You used to be a coach?

 

Your 99% statistic is hilarious. Did I fail last year when a partner didn't toss an assistant coach after he threw his helmet then told me to "F*ck off" when I went to peel him off of that partner?

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:ranton: The major problem with doofus putz coaches is that they are allowed to get away with abhorrent behavior by timid umpires who don't want to look like a bad guy. This isn't a popularity contest. Every time you let someone get away with idiotic actions, you are making the rest of our jobs that much harder when we do what needs to be done.  :rantoff:

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There is reality and then there is garbage. Fact is that most administrators could care less about the umpires. Most people that bring tournaments to a town will do anything for the money. Trust me, I deal with this fight daily! I've been told time and again that while the umpires are important, if a tournament coach is upset with an official, the official in question will either not work that coach's game anymore or the official is going home. It's about money 95% of the time. I'm not trying to pick a fight, but telling exactly what I've been told now and in the past. People come to town, spend money, and make the town better for those that live there.

Because I've been told that, I have to take a more hands on approach to protect my officials and protect my organization. That is why I have multiple umpire meetings, why I am at most games, etc. That's my full time gig. Now, if a coach crosses the line then he should absolutely be ejected. However, to eject a coach without that coach giving the criteria is a joke. We all deal with jerks, but sometimes you have to take it on the chin especially when you have an off day. Give rope, but draw the line once he crosses it. Warn, then eject. That's all I'm saying

 

And people wonder why parents (And parent coaches) act like they do. 

 

Here is your answer.

 

The criteria I would give youth coaches to not get ejected would be this: Don't argue with the umpires. I would assume they're also there "For the kids", so coach the damn kids. 

 

If umpires would quit agreeing to work for these "tournament coaches", they wouldn't have anyone to work their games or they would shut up and play and leave the umpires alone. 

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Well, here are the 2014 numbers from MLB:

  • Most ejections occurred on Sundays. Weekend series (Fri-Sun) featured 52% of all heave-ho's.

This is a nothing stat.  Fri - Sun is 3/7 (42%) of the days, and there are fewer travel days on the weekends. I figure the Reds played 48% of their regular season games on Fri - Sun.  So it's not remarkable that 52% of the ejections occurred on those days.

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They probably think there's the guy with the crappy strike zone.  Of course he apologized, you're back on the stick for his championship game.  What else would you expect him to do?  

 

I guess I don't carry a whole lot of ejection guilt.  

 

There's one person who puts the EJ wheels in motion and it's not the umpire.

They could think that I have a crappy zone... I don't care. I am confident and know that I am good....of course he apologized? Trust me sir that he could've very easily stayed quiet and not brought it up or even been an ass. You may think that he was simply kissing my ass and I think he was sincere... As an umpire I feel that the umpire failed also when there is an ejection. (99% of the time)... Coaches don't want to get ejected.

 

Let me guess: You used to be a coach?

 

Your 99% statistic is hilarious. Did I fail last year when a partner didn't toss an assistant coach after he threw his helmet then told me to "F*ck off" when I went to peel him off of that partner?

Fine but does that happen OFTEN? In all my years in baseball, I have never seen something like that....yes, I played through college then I coached high school. Then I had two boys and coached them....if you are a decent umpire and know how to treat people. You should almost never have to eject a coach....

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They probably think there's the guy with the crappy strike zone.  Of course he apologized, you're back on the stick for his championship game.  What else would you expect him to do?  

 

I guess I don't carry a whole lot of ejection guilt.  

 

There's one person who puts the EJ wheels in motion and it's not the umpire.

They could think that I have a crappy zone... I don't care. I am confident and know that I am good....of course he apologized? Trust me sir that he could've very easily stayed quiet and not brought it up or even been an ass. You may think that he was simply kissing my ass and I think he was sincere... As an umpire I feel that the umpire failed also when there is an ejection. (99% of the time)... Coaches don't want to get ejected.  

Let me guess: You used to be a coach?

 

Your 99% statistic is hilarious. Did I fail last year when a partner didn't toss an assistant coach after he threw his helmet then told me to "F*ck off" when I went to peel him off of that partner?

Fine but does that happen OFTEN? In all my years in baseball, I have never seen something like that....yes, I played through college then I coached high school. Then I had two boys and coached them....if you are a decent umpire and know how to treat people. You should almost never have to eject a coach....

 

 

Serious question: How long have you been umpiring? 

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The "don't argue with the umpires" works in theory. What about the time that those umpires are wrong? (And it happens a lot!) Most of those guys are first, second, or third year guys who don't have the knowledge, training, or experience to de-escalate the situation. I have lost count of the times I have been UIC or tournament director and have had a coach protest a game over a misapplied rule. Half of the time, the head coach had been dumped over the misapplied rule. Those ejections could have been avoided if 1. The coach had not been a jacka$$ to the umpire, or 2. If the umpire had asked for help (from their partner or the UIC) before misapplying a rule. That's why UIC's and tournament directors should always be on site at youth or travel games. If umpires stopped working travel tournaments then we would find ourselves with either under qualified officials at the high school level or we would see tournaments pulling from their current venues, thus costing the community on the whole (over dramatic? Perhaps)

In a situation like this, it sounds like the coach came up to him and spoke to him and didn't cause a scene. He was warned and must not have caused any further incident, otherwise I'm sure @aiber would have said that he had cause a scene.

Look, I completely agree that some parents and youth/travel coaches are idiots who shouldn't be allowed near a ball park. Their behavior is completely uncalled for and should not be tolerated. On the other hand, if an umpire does not learn how to handle bad situations then they will not work anything other than youth/travel ball. Youth and travel ball sucks, regardless of where you are located. I feel lucky that I have an association and an agency that looks out for officials and helps to "cut the crap", for lack of a better term.

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They probably think there's the guy with the crappy strike zone.  Of course he apologized, you're back on the stick for his championship game.  What else would you expect him to do?  

 

I guess I don't carry a whole lot of ejection guilt.  

 

There's one person who puts the EJ wheels in motion and it's not the umpire.

They could think that I have a crappy zone... I don't care. I am confident and know that I am good....of course he apologized? Trust me sir that he could've very easily stayed quiet and not brought it up or even been an ass. You may think that he was simply kissing my ass and I think he was sincere... As an umpire I feel that the umpire failed also when there is an ejection. (99% of the time)... Coaches don't want to get ejected.  

Let me guess: You used to be a coach?

 

Your 99% statistic is hilarious. Did I fail last year when a partner didn't toss an assistant coach after he threw his helmet then told me to "F*ck off" when I went to peel him off of that partner?

Fine but does that happen OFTEN? In all my years in baseball, I have never seen something like that....yes, I played through college then I coached high school. Then I had two boys and coached them....if you are a decent umpire and know how to treat people. You should almost never have to eject a coach....

I've been with you until now. Ejecting a coach does not mean that you're a bad umpire. Getting walked on does not make you a decent umpire. I treat every coach courteously and professionally. However, sometimes it doesn't matter how nice you treat someone because they don't reciprocate that professionalism. While ejection is a last choice, it is sometimes very necessary and should be used at times it is warranted. It has nothing to do with being decent or not.

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They probably think there's the guy with the crappy strike zone.  Of course he apologized, you're back on the stick for his championship game.  What else would you expect him to do?  

 

I guess I don't carry a whole lot of ejection guilt.  

 

There's one person who puts the EJ wheels in motion and it's not the umpire.

Two months consistently....

They could think that I have a crappy zone... I don't care. I am confident and know that I am good....of course he apologized? Trust me sir that he could've very easily stayed quiet and not brought it up or even been an ass. You may think that he was simply kissing my ass and I think he was sincere... As an umpire I feel that the umpire failed also when there is an ejection. (99% of the time)... Coaches don't want to get ejected.  

Let me guess: You used to be a coach?

 

Your 99% statistic is hilarious. Did I fail last year when a partner didn't toss an assistant coach after he threw his helmet then told me to "F*ck off" when I went to peel him off of that partner?

Fine but does that happen OFTEN? In all my years in baseball, I have never seen something like that....yes, I played through college then I coached high school. Then I had two boys and coached them....if you are a decent umpire and know how to treat people. You should almost never have to eject a coach....

 

Serious question: How long have you been umpiring?

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They probably think there's the guy with the crappy strike zone.  Of course he apologized, you're back on the stick for his championship game.  What else would you expect him to do?  

 

I guess I don't carry a whole lot of ejection guilt.  

 

There's one person who puts the EJ wheels in motion and it's not the umpire.

They could think that I have a crappy zone... I don't care. I am confident and know that I am good....of course he apologized? Trust me sir that he could've very easily stayed quiet and not brought it up or even been an ass. You may think that he was simply kissing my ass and I think he was sincere... As an umpire I feel that the umpire failed also when there is an ejection. (99% of the time)... Coaches don't want to get ejected.  

Let me guess: You used to be a coach?

 

Your 99% statistic is hilarious. Did I fail last year when a partner didn't toss an assistant coach after he threw his helmet then told me to "F*ck off" when I went to peel him off of that partner?

Fine but does that happen OFTEN? In all my years in baseball, I have never seen something like that....yes, I played through college then I coached high school. Then I had two boys and coached them....if you are a decent umpire and know how to treat people. You should almost never have to eject a coach....

I've been with you until now. Ejecting a coach does not mean that you're a bad umpire. Getting walked on does not make you a decent umpire. I treat every coach courteously and professionally. However, sometimes it doesn't matter how nice you treat someone because they don't reciprocate that professionalism. While ejection is a last choice, it is sometimes very necessary and should be used at times it is warranted. It has nothing to do with being decent or not.

I am not trying to convey that if you dump someone that you are a bad umpire...I am just saying that 99% both coach and umpire are to blame... That's 1 out of 100.. Of course, there is no research that I have done on this....I am just saying...

This has been a lot of fun.. This website (forum) has taught my a lot about umpiring and I appreciate you guys chiming in!!! I am done with this particular topic because it is getting boring! :)

Respectfully,

Albert

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They probably think there's the guy with the crappy strike zone.  Of course he apologized, you're back on the stick for his championship game.  What else would you expect him to do?  

 

I guess I don't carry a whole lot of ejection guilt.  

 

There's one person who puts the EJ wheels in motion and it's not the umpire.

They could think that I have a crappy zone... I don't care. I am confident and know that I am good....of course he apologized? Trust me sir that he could've very easily stayed quiet and not brought it up or even been an ass. You may think that he was simply kissing my ass and I think he was sincere... As an umpire I feel that the umpire failed also when there is an ejection. (99% of the time)... Coaches don't want to get ejected.  

Let me guess: You used to be a coach?

 

Your 99% statistic is hilarious. Did I fail last year when a partner didn't toss an assistant coach after he threw his helmet then told me to "F*ck off" when I went to peel him off of that partner?

Fine but does that happen OFTEN? In all my years in baseball, I have never seen something like that....yes, I played through college then I coached high school. Then I had two boys and coached them....if you are a decent umpire and know how to treat people. You should almost never have to eject a coach....

 

And there is the problem. Your are still thinking like a coach/player. 

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They probably think there's the guy with the crappy strike zone.  Of course he apologized, you're back on the stick for his championship game.  What else would you expect him to do?  

 

I guess I don't carry a whole lot of ejection guilt.  

 

There's one person who puts the EJ wheels in motion and it's not the umpire.

They could think that I have a crappy zone... I don't care. I am confident and know that I am good....of course he apologized? Trust me sir that he could've very easily stayed quiet and not brought it up or even been an ass. You may think that he was simply kissing my ass and I think he was sincere... As an umpire I feel that the umpire failed also when there is an ejection. (99% of the time)... Coaches don't want to get ejected.  

Let me guess: You used to be a coach?

 

Your 99% statistic is hilarious. Did I fail last year when a partner didn't toss an assistant coach after he threw his helmet then told me to "F*ck off" when I went to peel him off of that partner?

Fine but does that happen OFTEN? In all my years in baseball, I have never seen something like that....yes, I played through college then I coached high school. Then I had two boys and coached them....if you are a decent umpire and know how to treat people. You should almost never have to eject a coach....

And there is the problem. Your are still thinking like a coach/player.

Could be...

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Well, here are the 2014 numbers from MLB:

  • Most ejections occurred on Sundays. Weekend series (Fri-Sun) featured 52% of all heave-ho's.

This is a nothing stat.  Fri - Sun is 3/7 (42%) of the days, and there are fewer travel days on the weekends. I figure the Reds played 48% of their regular season games on Fri - Sun.  So it's not remarkable that 52% of the ejections occurred on those days.

 

 

I just thought it was interesting.  I didn't read into that one any further for the reasons you listed above.  I try to forget when the Twins are playing.  

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They probably think there's the guy with the crappy strike zone.  Of course he apologized, you're back on the stick for his championship game.  What else would you expect him to do?  

 

I guess I don't carry a whole lot of ejection guilt.  

 

There's one person who puts the EJ wheels in motion and it's not the umpire.

They could think that I have a crappy zone... I don't care. I am confident and know that I am good....of course he apologized? Trust me sir that he could've very easily stayed quiet and not brought it up or even been an ass. You may think that he was simply kissing my ass and I think he was sincere... As an umpire I feel that the umpire failed also when there is an ejection. (99% of the time)... Coaches don't want to get ejected.  

Let me guess: You used to be a coach?

 

Your 99% statistic is hilarious. Did I fail last year when a partner didn't toss an assistant coach after he threw his helmet then told me to "F*ck off" when I went to peel him off of that partner?

Fine but does that happen OFTEN? In all my years in baseball, I have never seen something like that....yes, I played through college then I coached high school. Then I had two boys and coached them....if you are a decent umpire and know how to treat people. You should almost never have to eject a coach....

 

And there is the problem. Your are still thinking like a coach/player. 

 

 

If this is getting boring, begin reading the "you've got to get the player out of you" thread.

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I'd be careful saying that he slid a little past the bag to the coach. (it's likely that you didn't say that)

If you did, you are admitting to misapplying a rule.

Sliding past the bag isn't illegal unless he contacts the fielder past the bag. The fielder was ON the bag, thus a legal slide, even though he ended up past it.

The coach said he slid past the bag, not me, but that was part of his argument with no merit.

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Guys, he's right...I would agree that 99% of the time, an umpire is to blame: the guys who didn't take care of business in earlier games.

After being on the administrative side of incidents and ejections in a parks and rec. office for nine years, I agree that umpires are at least complicit in most ejections (I'm not sure its 99%). Passion is part of umpiring (or at least is should be) and sometimes that passion can boil over in the heat of the moment. It doesn't excuse either side but I think its naive to think that most ejections are based solely on the player.

 

I disagree with the notion that "you have to get the player out of you," especially in terms of game management. Embrace the fact that you are or were a player. Embrace that you are or were a coach. Understanding those perspectives will make you better at handling conflict and in turn, a better umpire. One of the most important tools for managing conflict is empathy. The ability to have empathy doesn't make you a "coach's umpire" or a "player's umpire." It allows you to gain more information about how to handle a stressful situation and make better decisions.

 

I intend on playing and coaching as long as my knees and patience will allow. I expect to have a better understanding for all facets of the game though my multiple endeavors. 

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That's pretty much an automatic ejection. It doesn't get much clearer than that. He said YOUR zone sucked. I doesn't matter what he said before or after that as soon as he said your he made it personal and that calls for an ejection every time. I get why some people want to only use an ejection as a last resort but that just doesn't work in the long run. That's a good way to lose control of the game and a good way to make things harder on your self when you have the same coaches or managers in another game. Same goes for restricting a coach or manager to their dugout. It useually only makes them more angry and then you end up having to eject them later anyway. The exception to this is if you're working somewhere like Texas where in high school if a coach gets ejected he as well as you have to go to Austin for a hearing where his job is on the line. In that case the coaches have a general under the table agreement with TASO that if they need to e ejected they get restricted as an act of good faith so to speak and they know that for all intents and purposes they have been ejected and they sit down and shut up for the rest of the game.

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Guys, he's right...I would agree that 99% of the time, an umpire is to blame: the guys who didn't take care of business in earlier games.

After being on the administrative side of incidents and ejections in a parks and rec. office for nine years, I agree that umpires are at least complicit in most ejections (I'm not sure its 99%). Passion is part of umpiring (or at least is should be) and sometimes that passion can boil over in the heat of the moment. It doesn't excuse either side but I think its naive to think that most ejections are based solely on the player.

 

I disagree with the notion that "you have to get the player out of you," especially in terms of game management. Embrace the fact that you are or were a player. Embrace that you are or were a coach. Understanding those perspectives will make you better at handling conflict and in turn, a better umpire. One of the most important tools for managing conflict is empathy. The ability to have empathy doesn't make you a "coach's umpire" or a "player's umpire." It allows you to gain more information about how to handle a stressful situation and make better decisions.

 

I intend on playing and coaching as long as my knees and patience will allow. I expect to have a better understanding for all facets of the game though my multiple endeavors. 

 

Wow!

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They probably think there's the guy with the crappy strike zone.  Of course he apologized, you're back on the stick for his championship game.  What else would you expect him to do?  

 

I guess I don't carry a whole lot of ejection guilt.  

 

There's one person who puts the EJ wheels in motion and it's not the umpire.

They could think that I have a crappy zone... I don't care. I am confident and know that I am good....of course he apologized? Trust me sir that he could've very easily stayed quiet and not brought it up or even been an ass. You may think that he was simply kissing my ass and I think he was sincere... As an umpire I feel that the umpire failed also when there is an ejection. (99% of the time)... Coaches don't want to get ejected.  

Let me guess: You used to be a coach?

 

Your 99% statistic is hilarious. Did I fail last year when a partner didn't toss an assistant coach after he threw his helmet then told me to "F*ck off" when I went to peel him off of that partner?

Fine but does that happen OFTEN? In all my years in baseball, I have never seen something like that....yes, I played through college then I coached high school. Then I had two boys and coached them....if you are a decent umpire and know how to treat people. You should almost never have to eject a coach....

I've been with you until now. Ejecting a coach does not mean that you're a bad umpire. Getting walked on does not make you a decent umpire. I treat every coach courteously and professionally. However, sometimes it doesn't matter how nice you treat someone because they don't reciprocate that professionalism. While ejection is a last choice, it is sometimes very necessary and should be used at times it is warranted. It has nothing to do with being decent or not.

I am not trying to convey that if you dump someone that you are a bad umpire...I am just saying that 99% both coach and umpire are to blame... That's 1 out of 100.. Of course, there is no research that I have done on this....I am just saying...

This has been a lot of fun.. This website (forum) has taught my a lot about umpiring and I appreciate you guys chiming in!!! I am done with this particular topic because it is getting boring! :)

Respectfully,

Albert

 

 

I don't work 12U so I don't know for sure about that level of baseball, but for high school and above, you're not even close. (And I would say that 99% is way high even for youth/travel baseball)

 

Several posters in this thread have a lot to learn. 

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