When does a CR (or a sub) officially “enter� the game?

[Pops]

The following questions pertain to players who are going to be baserunners: 

 

Coaches are putting CRs into the game for their pitchers and catchers (sometimes without saying anything, sometimes when you have your back turned, during a time out, or when foul balls are being brought back in, etc.).  It can happen pretty quickly, especially from the 1^st base dugout to 1B.  I don’t miss very many, but it can happen.

 

I understand that runners who enter the game without the coach saying anything are essentially subs and not courtesy runners. And once the player enters the game, the coach can’t change a sub to a CR. 

 

This can happen when he verbalizes it so softly that the PU doesn’t hear the coach.  Also, I know coaches who do not know the CR rules and just assume they can run their players into the game this way.  So I’m not only looking to understand the rule better, but to avoid this issue with a little preventive strategy.

 

Once a player “enters the game,†he’s a sub according to the fed rulebook and casebook.  The question is, When does a CR (or a sub) officially “enter†the game?

 

Is it when he is announced by the coach?  Is it when the runner actually reaches the base?  Or is it when he leaves the dugout?  And does it have anything to do with the location of the runner that he is replacing (i.e. when he leaves the base or the field)?

[noumpere]

I'm pretty sure this is covered in 3-1 (or so) -- but I don't have my books to check.

 

If the replacement is given to the umpire, it's when the umpire writes it in the lineup and announces it to the other team.

 

If it's not announced, it's when the runner reaches the base -- but I forget if the ball must become live.

[JaxRolo]

Coaches must first ask for time if its a live ball.

 

Also coaches must be educated that they need to let PU know that he is either bringing in a CR or a Sub. This is Important.

[WIUMP]

If UIC is not notified of a courtesy runner, can the replacement runner be considered a substitute?

[noumpere]

If UIC is not notified of a courtesy runner, can the replacement runner be considered a substitute?

Not only CAN it, by rule it MUST be considered a sub.  (Game management might dictate differently -- if the same player has ben a CR three times, and he shows up a fourth time ....)

[maven]

I'm pretty sure this is covered in 3-1 (or so) -- but I don't have my books to check.

 

Yup. 3-1-1 includes this:

 

"Should there be no announcement of substitutions, a substitute has entered the game when the ball is live and:

a. a runner takes the place of a runner he has replaced,"

 

So, since you killed it to bring on the CR/sub, when you make it live and he's on/near the base, he's in the game.

[Pops]

If UIC is not notified of a courtesy runner, can the replacement runner be considered a substitute?

Yes. CR 8 in the case book states that an unreported CR is really a sub.  And that's one of the reasons for my question.  You'd have to tell the coach that his runner is a sub and that changes his player management strategy.

[maven]

Coaches are putting CRs into the game for their pitchers and catchers (sometimes without saying anything, sometimes when you have your back turned, during a time out, or when foul balls are being brought back in, etc.).  It can happen pretty quickly, especially from the 1^st base dugout to 1B.  I don’t miss very many, but it can happen.

 

As a game management matter, once I realized this had happened, I would stop the game and speak to the coach to make sure it doesn't happen again. I might be quasi-apologetic about it, and make sure that the coach understood that bad things could happen if I don't know the status of a player entering the game.

 

We don't use CR's much, but I've never seen a varsity coach try to "sneak" a sub into the game.

[Pops]

 

I'm pretty sure this is covered in 3-1 (or so) -- but I don't have my books to check.

 

Yup. 3-1-1 includes this:

 

"Should there be no announcement of substitutions, a substitute has entered the game when the ball is live and:

a. a runner takes the place of a runner he has replaced,"

 

So, since you killed it to bring on the CR/sub, when you make it live and he's on/near the base, he's in the game.

 

So would you say anything to the coach before you put the ball in play (because that's when the unreported CR becomes a sub)? Or if you know he's running for his pitcher, do you assume he's a CR?

[VAUmp]

I would add that you CANNOT "miss it."  If you've had issues in the past with coaches "sneaking" CRs onto the bases, address it at the plate meeting.  In the end you are responsible, and the $h!+ storm will be your fault if you aren't judicious with monitoring your line-up cards.

 

[JaxRolo]

Nah not at plate meeting.

 

Plate meeting = KISS

[Thunderheads]

 

Coaches are putting CRs into the game for their pitchers and catchers (sometimes without saying anything, sometimes when you have your back turned, during a time out, or when foul balls are being brought back in, etc.).  It can happen pretty quickly, especially from the 1^st base dugout to 1B.  I don’t miss very many, but it can happen.

 

As a game management matter, once I realized this had happened, I would stop the game and speak to the coach to make sure it doesn't happen again. I might be quasi-apologetic about it, and make sure that the coach understood that bad things could happen if I don't know the status of a player entering the game.

 

We don't use CR's much, but I've never seen a varsity coach try to "sneak" a sub into the game.

 

You guys don't see CR's much in Ohio?

[scrounge]

 

 

Coaches are putting CRs into the game for their pitchers and catchers (sometimes without saying anything, sometimes when you have your back turned, during a time out, or when foul balls are being brought back in, etc.).  It can happen pretty quickly, especially from the 1^st base dugout to 1B.  I don’t miss very many, but it can happen.

 

As a game management matter, once I realized this had happened, I would stop the game and speak to the coach to make sure it doesn't happen again. I might be quasi-apologetic about it, and make sure that the coach understood that bad things could happen if I don't know the status of a player entering the game.

 

We don't use CR's much, but I've never seen a varsity coach try to "sneak" a sub into the game.

 

You guys don't see CR's much in Ohio?

 

 

Not in school games at all...in fact, I think this year is the first they're allowed, and even then only for non-league games if both coaches agree. Summer/travel? All the time - but generally lineup cards aren't being maintained in those games either.

[conbo61]

I would add that you CANNOT "miss it."  If you've had issues in the past with coaches "sneaking" CRs onto the bases, address it at the plate meeting.  In the end you are responsible, and the $h!+ storm will be your fault if you aren't judicious with monitoring your line-up cards.

 

 

I don't think a simple "Coach, make sure you notify me of subs and CR's.  Just trying to avoid any confusion and problems."   mucks up the plate meeting.

[noumpere]

 

So would you say anything to the coach before you put the ball in play (because that's when the unreported CR becomes a sub)? Or if you know he's running for his pitcher, do you assume he's a CR?

 

 

 

I ask -- is that a sub or a CR?

[noumpere]

 

 

I don't think a simple "Coach, make sure you notify me of subs and CR's.  Just trying to avoid any confusion and problems."   mucks up the plate meeting.

 

 

At many levels, the coaches will be thinking "no $hit" when they hear that.

[MidAmUmp]

I would add that you CANNOT "miss it."  If you've had issues in the past with coaches "sneaking" CRs onto the bases, address it at the plate meeting.  In the end you are responsible, and the $h!+ storm will be your fault if you aren't judicious with monitoring your line-up cards.

 

[Jimurray]

The following questions pertain to players who are going to be baserunners: 

 

Coaches are putting CRs into the game for their pitchers and catchers (sometimes without saying anything, sometimes when you have your back turned, during a time out, or when foul balls are being brought back in, etc.).  It can happen pretty quickly, especially from the 1^st base dugout to 1B.  I don’t miss very many, but it can happen.

 

I understand that runners who enter the game without the coach saying anything are essentially subs and not courtesy runners. And once the player enters the game, the coach can’t change a sub to a CR. 

 

This can happen when he verbalizes it so softly that the PU doesn’t hear the coach.  Also, I know coaches who do not know the CR rules and just assume they can run their players into the game this way.  So I’m not only looking to understand the rule better, but to avoid this issue with a little preventive strategy.

 

Once a player “enters the game,†he’s a sub according to the fed rulebook and casebook.  The question is, When does a CR (or a sub) officially “enter†the game?

 

Is it when he is announced by the coach?  Is it when the runner actually reaches the base?  Or is it when he leaves the dugout?  And does it have anything to do with the location of the runner that he is replacing (i.e. when he leaves the base or the field)?

Is this happening with one umpire?

[ALStripes17]

Ask the coach if it's a courtesy runner.

There is no reason umpires should be surprised by personnel changes. The ball must be dead to do so. What else are you looking at if a new runner surprises you?

And yes, if runners (say during a defensive conference) huddle up by their dugout and a new one is discovered (unannounced), he is most definitely a substitute.

[MidAmUmp]

Obviously you need to know the situation - Pitcher or catcher is batting and he gets on base. That would be a real good opportunity to take a look and see if the coach is doing something. When I work games where C/R's are an option, I usually make eye contact with the head coach once one of those 2 reaches base. That alone is usually enough for him to get the clue that maybe there's something he needs to tell me.

 

But if you've done all you can and the coach pulls some shenanigans, there's not a hell of a lot you can do about it. The book covers an unannounced substitute.

 

I suppose you could be a difficult human being and tell the coach since he didn't identify the player as a C/R, he is an unannounced sub and while the starter may re-enter, the sub is done (unless rules say a sub can re-enter, too).

 

I would recommend:

1) As stated, know the situation.

2) Ask questions if you're not sure.

3) If they sneak something in on you, have a conversation with him after the inning and tell him not to do it again - use the rules in your favor.

 

If this is really an epidemic in your area (not just one jerk off coach), then briefly mention it at the plate meeting - "Guys, help me out, if you're going to use a C/R, please ask for time and report that change to me so we're on the same page. Alright? Are all your players and equipment legal and proper? We'll take X minutes in between games. Any questions? Good luck guys."

 

If it is just one jerk off coach, pre-game with your partner. Ask him to help you monitor it.

 

No clinic or school teaches you to read minds. If they pull a fast one on you, it's not your fault (contrary to what some people believe). Address it afterwards and penalize if/when necessary.

[Majordave]

JOC. (Jerk Off Coach) I like it.