Turning to make a pick off attempt at 2nd

[stl_ump]

RHP with R2.

 

Can the pitcher pivot to 2nd turning to the right or left?

 

I thought he could but I had a coach last night that was convinced that he could only pivot to his right (3rd base side)

 

Thanks

[Thunderheads]

most RHP pivot all the way (....and past first) on the way to second .........

[stl_ump]

So he CAN go in either direction right?

[Thunderheads]

So he CAN go in either direction right?

Yes. Where does it say that he can't?  As long as he steps towards second, he's fine

[JaxRolo]

Agree. Coaches making up crap again. Go with your instinct!

[Stan W.]

Also remember that the rule book, despite its old style language and odd order of rules, is still very complete.......If the rule book does not expressly prohibit it.......how can it be illegal?

[grayhawk]

That coach has never heard of a reverse pivot move?

[maven]

So he CAN go in either direction right?

 

No, he may go only left OR right....

 

Eh, I'm messin' with you. Yes.

[grayhawk]

Here you go:

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v35213977

[stl_ump]

Nice video... nice pick off.

If the pitcher were to lift his leg as if he was going to pitch, but no forward motion, (instead of doing the "spin move") and then turn to the left completely around to 2nd it would still be acceptable right?  In my case last night the pitcher wasn't very adapt at this move and did it some what awkwardly. This to the discussion about it being a balk.

[grayhawk]

Nice video... nice pick off.

If the pitcher were to lift his leg as if he was going to pitch, but no forward motion, (instead of doing the "spin move") and then turn to the left completely around to 2nd it would still be acceptable right?  In my case last night the pitcher wasn't very adapt at this move and did it some what awkwardly. This to the discussion about it being a balk.

 

No.  Once his lifts his free foot, he can only (1) deliver the pitch, (2) step and throw to third (if there is R3, or R2 giving the impression that he's advancing), or (3) continue turning to his right to step and either feint or throw to second (an inside move).  If F1 lifts his free foot and then turns in the opposite direction, then it will be a balk because it's impossible to swing his knee to first or second without first moving towards home.

[MadMax]

In games in the northern hemisphere, the pitcher pivots to the 1BS. In games in the southern hemisphere, he pivots to the 3BS.

In games in Ecuador, he tumbles backwards.

:D

[stl_ump]

 

Nice video... nice pick off.

If the pitcher were to lift his leg as if he was going to pitch, but no forward motion, (instead of doing the "spin move") and then turn to the left completely around to 2nd it would still be acceptable right?  In my case last night the pitcher wasn't very adapt at this move and did it some what awkwardly. This to the discussion about it being a balk.

 

No.  Once his lifts his free foot, he can only (1) deliver the pitch, (2) step and throw to third (if there is R3, or R2 giving the impression that he's advancing), or (3) continue turning to his right to step and either feint or throw to second (an inside move).  If F1 lifts his free foot and then turns in the opposite direction, then it will be a balk because it's impossible to swing his knee to first or second without first moving towards home.

 

 

And THAT'S exactly what the coach was saying.  So it's not that he CAN'T turn to his left, it's how he does it?

So it looks like I was wrong on this one.

[grayhawk]

 

 

Nice video... nice pick off.

If the pitcher were to lift his leg as if he was going to pitch, but no forward motion, (instead of doing the "spin move") and then turn to the left completely around to 2nd it would still be acceptable right?  In my case last night the pitcher wasn't very adapt at this move and did it some what awkwardly. This to the discussion about it being a balk.

 

No.  Once his lifts his free foot, he can only (1) deliver the pitch, (2) step and throw to third (if there is R3, or R2 giving the impression that he's advancing), or (3) continue turning to his right to step and either feint or throw to second (an inside move).  If F1 lifts his free foot and then turns in the opposite direction, then it will be a balk because it's impossible to swing his knee to first or second without first moving towards home.

 

 

And THAT'S exactly what the coach was saying.  So it's not that he CAN'T turn to his left, it's how he does it?

 

 

Yup.  Lifting the free foot and turning to the left should be balked all day.  A jump spin move, aka a reverse pivot, is perfectly legal if executed properly.

[Rich Ives]

You guys have been smoking too much funny stuff. A RHP (or any pitcher) can make a legal pick by stepping to 1B. You can't step without lifting your leg. It hasn't been done that way in so long now because the jump-spin is quicker that people have come to believe it's illegal. It isn't.

[grayhawk]

You guys have been smoking too much funny stuff. A RHP (or any pitcher) can make a legal pick by stepping to 1B. You can't step without lifting your leg. It hasn't been done that way in so long now because the jump-spin is quicker that people have come to believe it's illegal. It isn't.

 

Rich, I am talking about lifting the free foot towards the balance point.  A RHP cannot do that and then pick to first (or second if he wants to turn to his left).

 

Can a pitcher do a direct step without making a jab step or a jump turn?  Sure, but it must be direct without raising the foot up as if to pitch.  Evans covers both moves in his video.

[blue23ll]

The key to the move to second is, the pitcher must do it in one move, without stopping, or making any movement that is associated with beginning his move toward home. In the video, the pitcher turned in one complete motion. Hanging the leg simulates the start of a pitch, a knee pop commits to the plate. The pitcher can make a legal pick to 1st by lifting his free leg and stepping toward first, but he can't step toward first and then swing around and throw to second. 

[afaber12]

In games in the northern hemisphere, the pitcher pivots to the 1BS. In games in the southern hemisphere, he pivots to the 3BS.

In games in Ecuador, he tumbles backwards.

Don't know about Ecuador, but in the southern hemisphere its still to 1BS, its just that because we run the bases the other way around 1B is where you northerners would usually have 3B.

 

Of course we're also playing by wearing boots on our hands, a glove on one foot and throwing the ball with the other.

[MadMax]

@afaber12 – You do realize I wrote that snippet there in the hopes that you would be reading this one of these days, right?

 

Cheers!

[afaber12]

@afaber12 – You do realize I wrote that snippet there in the hopes that you would be reading this one of these days, right?

 

Cheers!

 

I'd be disappointed if it wasn't setup with me in mind!

[FleasOf1000Camels]

I've heard this argument from coaches a billion times, and it just don't hold water.  He can pivot either way...BUT it's got to be in a continuous motion.  Where it can get real sticky is when 1st and 2nd are BOTH occupied and that RHP pivots past 1st on his way to step to 2nd...a hesitation or flinch as he passes that point is going to be a problem.

 

Earlier this season I had a coach make a very impassioned case that it was physically impossible for pitcher to turn that way without stepping toward first as he passed by.  I told him "if that were true, under present OBR , it would ALSO be impossible for him to turn past 3rd.  Are you saying there's no legal way to throw to 2nd?"

[DVA7130]

Nice video... nice pick off.

If the pitcher were to lift his leg as if he was going to pitch, but no forward motion, (instead of doing the "spin move") and then turn to the left completely around to 2nd it would still be acceptable right?  In my case last night the pitcher wasn't very adapt at this move and did it some what awkwardly. This to the discussion about it being a balk.

 

No.  Once his lifts his free foot, he can only (1) deliver the pitch, (2) step and throw to third (if there is R3, or R2 giving the impression that he's advancing), or (3) continue turning to his right to step and either feint or throw to second (an inside move).  If F1 lifts his free foot and then turns in the opposite direction, then it will be a balk because it's impossible to swing his knee to first or second without first moving towards home. No per PBUC.