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LLWS - Batter out for illegal action

grayhawk

By grayhawk
in Youth Recreation Ball

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grayhawk

grayhawk

Posted
Posted

Illinois vs Washington game.  Top of 3.  R1 & R2.  1 out.  LH batter squares and lays down a great bunt down the 3B line.  His foot was on the ground entirely outside the box when he bunted it.  His foot was partly on the plate, but no part of the foot was touching the line of the batter's box.  PU calls time and calls the batter out.  Runners return.  Nice call!

 

Of course, the announcers (Karl Ravich and Barry Larkin), say he's out because he stepped on the plate.   :no:  :no:

 

 

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Rich Ives
Rich Ives

"Dead ball" is a legitimate call in softball. Perhaps the umpire does both and it just carries over.   And from experience (lots) in participating in and observing youth ball, calling "dead ball" is

Richvee
Richvee

That was a debacle. How could all 4 umpires not know the count? On a brighter note, just watched Rhode Island/Tenn. What a great game, and I thought PU was one of the best I've seen so far in Williams

Jimurray
Jimurray

The announcers were not correct in LL or OBR.

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Guest CoachYoYo

Guest CoachYoYo

Posted
Posted

In todays LLWS game (Chicago vs. Washington) a Chicago batter was bunting and was called out.  The announcers stated it was because he stepped on the plate.  Which he clearly did.  It was unclear( to me anyway) if his foot was completely out of the batters box or if his heel was touching the line.

 

Of course we couldn't hear the umpires explanation.  Stepped on plate or out of batters box.  As far as I know, stepping on the plate in LL is a non issue.  Did the announcers get it wrong?

 

Rob.

grayhawk

grayhawk

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I was just going to write how I think the LLWS umpires have looked pretty good so far, but then I hear 2 "dead ball" calls in about 30 seconds.  Once on a lodged ball and once on a HBP.  A U1 kicked an easy call at first earlier today, which was overturned in about 20 seconds.  I've also seen some head height issues - HOK with PU's chin about 8-12 inches above the top of F2's head.  That seems to be common for guys using the GD stance with 12 year old F2s.

RichMSN

RichMSN

Posted
Posted

Nothing wrong with that head height.  The head should be no lower than the top of the catcher's head, but there's no reason that I need to put my head all the way down there because there's a small catcher.

 

My head's about the same height for a LL game as it is for a college game.  From what I can tell (based on some video I've watched), my zone's as consistent and correct in both.

MidAmUmp

MidAmUmp

Posted
Posted

It's hard for a grown man to make major adjustments to his stance based on the various sizes of youth baseball players.

 

I will say I saw a side photo of one of the umpires working the plate yesterday and his back was as straight as a board.  If he would have had about a 45-degree forward lean he would have been in a really good spot.  Chin out over knees.

 

And then of course, those things that make my skin crawl..."Dead Ball!" and "Foul Ball" on balls hit out of play ("no poop" calls).  Even saw a LF guy yesterday signal a ball foul after it hit the tarp in the air and then went out of play.  He stood there for a second, looked at the 3rd base umpire, then pointed foul and then threw up his hands.   :tantrum: I can't watch much without my blood pressure going up. 

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grayhawk

grayhawk

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I understand that they may not be able to get that low, but a foot over F2's head seems way too high to me.  Then again, since the LL strike zone goes up to the armpits, maybe it's not as big of a problem.

 

@MidAmUmp, that stuff drives me nuts too.  These guys know they are on TV (and under the microscope), so I think they err on the side of over calling so it doesn't look like they missed something.  One of the PU's yesterday (I think for the Nevada game) actually seemed pretty relaxed in spite of his "dead ball" calls and verbaling his strikes while he was still down.  I suspect he's a softball guy and lets those mechanics creep into his baseball games.

Rich Ives

Rich Ives

Posted
Posted

"Dead ball" is a legitimate call in softball. Perhaps the umpire does both and it just carries over.

 

And from experience (lots) in participating in and observing youth ball, calling "dead ball" is a lot more effective than calling "time". Gets rid of a lot of "yeahbut" comments from the participants and fans.

 

And calling time does make the ball dead so it's not really wrong, it's just not standard protocol.

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zm1283

zm1283

Posted
Posted

"Dead ball" is a legitimate call in softball. Perhaps the umpire does both and it just carries over.

 

And from experience (lots) in participating in and observing youth ball, calling "dead ball" is a lot more effective than calling "time". Gets rid of a lot of "yeahbut" comments from the participants and fans.

 

And calling time does make the ball dead so it's not really wrong, it's just not standard protocol.

 

I thought we were talking about baseball?

 

Time for my yearly LL rant: LL baseball is a total joke. A field that is too small for the players, too many untrained umpires on the little field, and the asinine instant replay for freaking 12 year-old baseball. Not to mention that all it is is a way for ESPN to make money. I too can't watch it for more than about 30 minutes before I get mad and just turn it off.

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zm1283

zm1283

Posted
Posted

Wow. Make sure to find the highlights of the Washington/South Dakota game for how the game ended. Runners on first and second with two outs. Base hit to center field. R2 tries to score but falls down about half way between home and third. He gets up as the catcher is trying to field the throw and keeps running. The catcher drops the throw and has to chase it toward the runner. As he picks the ball up the runner is either by the catcher or almost by him and had to deviate about a foot to keep from missing him and ends up scoring. The PU calls the runner out for a basepath violation. The head coach comes right in and asks to review it. The umpires all get together immediately then the PU goes to review it at the fence, but it stands. 

 

The calls was wrong on the field to begin with but their great instant replay doesn't even fix it...what a mess. You could probably even make a small argument for obstruction on the catcher.

blue23ll

blue23ll

Posted
Posted

Egads!!!  Did my eyes deceive me?  Watching the Venezuela vs Canada game and I saw an umpire with a base IN HIS HANDS?? And he was BRUSHING it and replacing it? Tell me it was a mirage!!

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Jimurray

Jimurray

Posted
Posted

Wow. Make sure to find the highlights of the Washington/South Dakota game for how the game ended. Runners on first and second with two outs. Base hit to center field. R2 tries to score but falls down about half way between home and third. He gets up as the catcher is trying to field the throw and keeps running. The catcher drops the throw and has to chase it toward the runner. As he picks the ball up the runner is either by the catcher or almost by him and had to deviate about a foot to keep from missing him and ends up scoring. The PU calls the runner out for a basepath violation. The head coach comes right in and asks to review it. The umpires all get together immediately then the PU goes to review it at the fence, but it stands. 

 

The calls was wrong on the field to begin with but their great instant replay doesn't even fix it...what a mess. You could probably even make a small argument for obstruction on the catcher.

Haven't seen the game yet but shouldn't the coach be able to protest a rule misapplication even after the video review? I fact I think he might have until the next game of either team.

BigUmpire

BigUmpire

Posted
Posted

"Dead ball" is a legitimate call in softball. Perhaps the umpire does both and it just carries over.

And from experience (lots) in participating in and observing youth ball, calling "dead ball" is a lot more effective than calling "time". Gets rid of a lot of "yeahbut" comments from the participants and fans.

And calling time does make the ball dead so it's not really wrong, it's just not standard protocol.

Once again rich is correct.

In youth ball calling a vigorous "dead ball" is more effective in "stoping the circus" than saying "time"

I really hate when Rich is correct BUT this guy KNOWS youth ball. Dammit '

Forest Ump

Forest Ump

Posted
Posted

Egads!!!  Did my eyes deceive me?  Watching the Venezuela vs Canada game and I saw an umpire with a base IN HIS HANDS?? And he was BRUSHING it and replacing it? Tell me it was a mirage!!

 

How bout that double call on the foul ball. Plate guy calls foul, U1 points fair.

Richvee

Richvee

Posted
Posted

how about the incorrect count?

That was a debacle. How could all 4 umpires not know the count? On a brighter note, just watched Rhode Island/Tenn. What a great game, and I thought PU was one of the best I've seen so far in Williamsport this year. 

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basejester

basejester

Posted
Posted

how about the incorrect count?

That was embarrassing.  I'm fortunate that I was not on TV while making a mistake like that.

 

I'd expect the official book or one of the outfield umpires to be part of the process in the future.

Rich Ives

Rich Ives

Posted
Posted

Egads!!!  Did my eyes deceive me?  Watching the Venezuela vs Canada game and I saw an umpire with a base IN HIS HANDS?? And he was BRUSHING it and replacing it? Tell me it was a mirage!!

 

They are breakaway bases. You have to keep them clean so they function properly.

Richvee

Richvee

Posted
Posted

 

how about the incorrect count?

That was embarrassing.  I'm fortunate that I was not on TV while making a mistake like that.

 

I'd expect the official book or one of the outfield umpires to be part of the process in the future.

 

For what it's worth, the announcers said the crew got together during the break and agreed it was K3. That's the embarrassing thing. How could they all be wrong? Maybe the announcers got it wrong? ( nah...that never happens) 

edit for clarification...I mean the announcers were wrong about the umpires conferring. not wrong on the count. It was clearly only 2K's. 

Richvee

Richvee

Posted
Posted

 

how about the incorrect count?

 

MLB has used replay several times this season to get the count correct. It's not like a count never gets lost.

 

So why couldn't LL use IR for this? I don't understand that. 

blue23ll

blue23ll

Posted
Posted

 

Egads!!!  Did my eyes deceive me?  Watching the Venezuela vs Canada game and I saw an umpire with a base IN HIS HANDS?? And he was BRUSHING it and replacing it? Tell me it was a mirage!!

 

They are breakaway bases. You have to keep them clean so they function properly.

 

YOU might have to keep them clean, but I certainly don't. I will call time to allow you to clean any base you wish. 

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