Balk with IFF

[chalen]

OBR. Infield fly situation, pitcher balks but pitches, and batter hits what would normally be called an infield fly.

Do you (1) call something like "Infield fly! Time! That's a balk!"? Or would you (2) just ignore the IFF because the defense cannot get a cheap double play, and call time and enforce the balk if the ball is caught (or if any runner doesn't advance)?

#2 seems right because #1 might penalize the offense, but is there a definitive ruling on this?

[Jocko]

Sequence of events

BALK!

IFF IF FAIR!

TIME!

Enforce the balk depending on the outcome of the play. Advance base runners one base and bring the batter back to the dish with the same count he had before the IFF.

[MidAmUmp]

I'd let it play out.  Let the ball be caught or dropped, then call time and enforce the balk. 

[goody14]

The balk is going to be enforced in this situation no matter what happens with the play since the BR cannot reach 1B.

 

Otherwise, follow what Jocko said.  But, know that balk is being enforced if the ball is caught or dropped.

[bam]

Not sure if I'd announce IFF if fair. That's injecting confusion into a situation that doesn't need any more drama. You're not enforcing it, so why invite the rat to ask why you called it?

[maven]

Maybe I'm missing something: what does a balk have to do with whether it's an IFF? Is there an exception to IFF that I don't know?

[ALStripes17]

Let's not call IFF and see what happens ... then enforce the balk after the circus comes and goes

:

[Jocko]

Maybe I'm missing something: what does a balk have to do with whether it's an IFF? Is there an exception to IFF that I don't know?

my point is that under non-fed, the balk is a DDB. Play it out as if the balk didn't happen. THEN enforce the balk. The ONLY outcome here is that the balk will be enforced. Caught/Uncaught/Fair/Fail will have no influence on the outcome of the play that never officially happened, because there was a balk. I was just stressing to make all your calls like there hadn't been a balk until it's time to address the balk.

[chalen]

To clarify the choices:

 

(#1) The infield fly is still in effect, meaning that the balk will be enforced. If that's the choice, when do you call time? I guess you do need to indicate "Infield fly!" to clarify why you are killing the play. I think the mechanic would be "Infield fly!" Then wait until the ball comes down so fielders don't look away with the ball coming down on them. Then immediately call "Time! That's a balk!" Add "No pitch!" if you want, and award bases.

 

(#2) Because the defense screwed up, and in this situation a double play is impossible, reward the offense by ignoring the infield fly rule and require the defense to make a play. If they fail to catch the ball and fail to make a play, allow the offense to capitalize off of that. In that case, you say nothing unless the ball is caught or someone is out before advancing. (And then: "Time! That's a balk! ...") If the batter-runner and all runners advance one base, ignore the balk.

 

I don't think any rules really allow us to ignore the infield fly. So I'm thinking option #1. But there's a good argument for #2.

[Replacematt]

No, there's not a good argument for #2. The play is the play in its totality--IFF, OBS, INT, whatever. 

 

For the record, my opinion is that the ball gets killed as soon as there is no ability for the offense to have each runner, including the batter-runner, advance one base. Thus, once it is IFF, it should be dead.

[Jocko]

@chalen- 100% of the time you've called the balk before the ball was hit. You SHOULD 99% of the time call it before it leaves F1s hand. So how are you gonna call it after the IFF? You may re-call it, but if you're anything like me, everyone heard you call it as soon as you saw it.

[afaber12]

Not sure if I'd announce IFF if fair. That's injecting confusion into a situation that doesn't need any more drama. You're not enforcing it, so why invite the rat to ask why you called it?

 

In theory, most of the time you call an infield fly the ball will be caught. But sometimes the fielder who would've caught the ball drops it, gets confused by your call, or is a quick-thinker and lets it drop to see if he can catch out a runner who wasn't paying attention. Though the batter won't be out because you or your partner have already called the balk regardless of a catch or no catch, without the infield fly call there would be situations where it would look like you're forcing the batter to take a do over because of the balk despite the appearance of everyone advancing one base. If you call "Infield fly" - without the "batter's out" or "if fair" - you've then established that the batter's not getting first, and setup the need to enforce the balk.

 

Chances are unless everyone's just plain stunned about events, no matter how you call it at the time you'll have to do some explaining to at least one of the coaches. Especially if between you and your partner one calls the balk and the other calls the infield fly. But everyone on here has a partner who spots either of those, we always echo the call ourselves don't we?

 

If its an infield fly we're supposed to call an infield fly. Like @maven said a balk occurring isn't an exemption to the infield fly, though it does mean the outcome's different to the usual. Whether you kill the ball while its in the air immediately after calling the infield fly, or you wait for it to come down, there's no need to let play continue when you know the result of the play no longer matters. 

[noumpere]

I'd let it play out.  Let the ball be caught or dropped, then call time and enforce the balk. 

This scenario was on one of the recent (last year or two) NCAA tests.  As soon as an umpire has determined that it's an infield fly, kill it.

[chalen]

@chalen- 100% of the time you've called the balk before the ball was hit. You SHOULD 99% of the time call it before it leaves F1s hand. So how are you gonna call it after the IFF? You may re-call it, but if you're anything like me, everyone heard you call it as soon as you saw it.

 

Yes, my "That's a balk!" above, after calling "Time!", was to reiterate the balk that was called a few seconds earlier. I think that's very important if you are killing a batted ball. But I would even call it a second time even on a very simple balk (like a feint to 1B when the pitcher never releases the ball): "That's a balk!" [Confirm ball is still under F1's control.] "Time! That's a balk! You, second base!"

[Pete Peterson Sr]

Sequence of events

THAT'S a balk....

IFF IF FAIR!

TIME!

Enforce the balk depending on the outcome of the play. Advance base runners one base and bring the batter back to the dish with the same count he had before the IFF.

There. I fixed it for you.  

[Jocko]

Sequence of eventsTHAT'S a balk....

IFF IF FAIR!

TIME!

Enforce the balk depending on the outcome of the play. Advance base runners one base and bring the batter back to the dish with the same count he had before the IFF.

There. I fixed it for you.   every time, I actually hear you say it. Lmao.