One base or two?

[FleasOf1000Camels]

Runner on 1st.

Wild pitch glances off plate umpire's shin guard, and bounces/rolls toward 3rd base dugout.

Runner is well past 2nd by the time F2 gets near the ball, which has now stopped rolling about 2-3 feet away from dugout.

As F2 is bending down to pick it up, he takes his eye off the ball to look at runner.

F2's foot slips and he kicks the ball into the dugout.

 

My partner says the runner stays at 2nd (even tho he admitted the ball was stopped before F2's foot hit it) as it was "one continuous play" from a pitch).

 

I say he ought to get 3rd, just the same as if F2 had thrown the ball out of play.

 

What say ye, gentlemen?

[guyinaredhat]

if in your judgement the f2 " kicked it into DB territory=2 bases

 

if in your judgement the ball went off the shin and into db territory or would have gone into dead ball territory w/o the kick= 1 base award

[basejester]

Place the runner on third base under OBR.

 

 

7.05 Each runner including the batter-runner may, without liability to be put out,

advance—

 

(h) One base, if a ball, pitched to the batter, or thrown by the pitcher from his position

on the pitcher’s plate to a base to catch a runner, goes into a stand or a bench, or

over or through a field fence or backstop. The ball is dead;

APPROVED RULING: When a wild pitch or passed ball goes through or by the

catcher, or deflects off the catcher, and goes directly into the dugout, stands, above

the break, or any area where the ball is dead, the awarding of bases shall be one

base. One base shall also be awarded if the pitcher while in contact with the rubber,

throws to a base, and the throw goes directly into the stands or into any area where

the ball is dead.

If, however, the pitched or thrown ball goes through or by the catcher or through the

fielder, and remains on the playing field, and is subsequently kicked or deflected

into the dugout, stands or other area where the ball is dead, the awarding of bases

shall be two bases from position of runners at the time of the pitch or throw.

[grayhawk]

In Fed, score him.  8.3.3 Situation K.

[maven]

Fleas, unfortunately you selected the only base R1 cannot be awarded.

 

If the ball would have gone out of play anyway, FED gives you the option of a 1 base award TOP.

 

Otherwise, it's 2 bases from TOT, which you say saw R1 well past 2B. In that case, he scores.

[Just-Call-It]

I thought that basically anything from the pitcher on the plate awards are TOP? 

[johnnyg08]

That's correct.  But the additional force from F2 caused the ball to go out of play so the award changes from a time of pitch award to a time of deflection award.  

[grayhawk]

I thought that basically anything from the pitcher on the plate awards are TOP? 

 

When the pitch stopped rolling, "the pitch is considered to be over" according to Fed.  It's in the case play I posted above.

[Just-Call-It]

Ok then - so FED and OBR have different rulings then... as the OBR rule 7.05 as posted above by 'basejester' clearly stated in the bolded print 2 bases from TOP or TOT... TOT referring to an attempted pick off. 

[maven]

Ok then - so FED and OBR have different rulings then... as the OBR rule 7.05 as posted above by 'basejester' clearly stated in the bolded print 2 bases from TOP or TOT... TOT referring to an attempted pick off. 

 

The OBR ruling is basically saying that if F2 contacts the ball, it's going slowly enough that the kick rather than the pitch is causing it to go out of play. It is also saying 2 bases from TOT, which is the time of "throw," or when F2 contacts the ball. The "throw" here is actually a kick, and the throw that counts for awarding bases is the one that makes the ball go out of play.

[Just-Call-It]

I don't see how you cant make a kick - a throw - but I understand the logic, and see it clearly defined in FED. But this ruling, specifically in OBR looks different.

 

The rule states:

 

(h) One base, if a ball, pitched to the batter, or thrown by the pitcher from his position

on the pitcher’s plate to a base to catch a runner, goes into a stand or a bench, or

over or through a field fence or backstop. The ball is dead;

 

Then, directly under that in Approved Ruling:

If, however, the pitched or thrown ball goes through or by the catcher or through the

fielder, and remains on the playing field, and is subsequently kicked or deflected

into the dugout, stands or other area where the ball is dead, the awarding of bases

shall be two bases from position of runners at the time of the pitch or throw.

 

IMO - that final statement 'throw' refers to the ball 'thrown by the pitcher from his position' or TOT - since thats what the rule is directly dealing with.

[noumpere]

I agree with WalksWith4Balls.

 

(and, yes, FED is different.  Somewhere way back in the days of Bob P. there was a chart that went around summarizing the differences in the three codes based on momentum, and intent, etc.) 

 

from MLBUM (highlighting added for this situation):

 

5.8 BALLS DEFLECTED OUT OF PLAY

The Approved Ruling of Official Baseball Rule 7.05(h) provides that when a pitched ball

deflects off the catcher and goes directly out of play, the award is one base from the time of the

pitch. Likewise, when a throw from the pitcher while in contact with the rubber deflects off a

fielder and goes directly out of play, the award is also one base.

 

However, the Approved Ruling also provides that if the pitched ball (or ball thrown by the

pitcher while in contact with the rubber) goes through or by the catcher (or fielder), remains on

the playing field, and is subsequently kicked or deflected out of play, the award is two bases

from the time of the pitch.

 

The above rulings apply if the deflection is unintentional on the part of the fielder. If, in the

judgment of the umpires, a fielder intentionally kicks or deflects any batted or thrown ball out of

play, the award is two bases from the time the ball was kicked or deflected.

 

The following list helps summarize awards when a ball is deflected out of play:

(1) If a pitched ball deflects off the catcher and goes directly out of play, the award is one base

from the time of the pitch.

(2) If a ball thrown by the pitcher while in contact with the rubber deflects off a fielder and

goes directly out of play, the award is one base from the time of the throw.

(3) If a pitched ball (or a ball thrown by the pitcher while in contact with the rubber) goes

through or by the catcher (or fielder), remains on the playing field, and is subsequently

kicked or deflected out of play (unintentionally in either case), the award is two bases from

the time of the pitch. This ruling applies without regard to whether or not the ball would

have gone out of play had it not been kicked or deflected. (See the Approved Ruling to

Official Baseball Rule 7.05(h).)

(4) If a thrown ball deflects off a fielder and goes directly out of play, the award is two bases

from the time of the pitch if it is the first play by an infielder; otherwise the award is two

bases from the time of the throw. (See Section 5.6 [Awarding Bases on Wild Throws].)

(5) If a thrown ball goes through or by a fielder, remains on the playing field, and is

subsequently kicked or deflected out of play (unintentionally in either case), the award is

two bases from the time of the throw.

(6) If a fair fly ball is deflected in flight by a fielder and then goes out of the playing field in

flight over fair territory, it is a home run.

(7) If a fair fly ball is deflected in flight by a fielder and then goes out of play outside the foul

lines, the award is two bases from the time of the pitch.

(8) If a fair ball not in flight is deflected by a fielder and then goes out of play, the award is

two bases from the time of the pitch.

(9) If a fielder has complete possession of a batted or thrown ball and subsequently deflects or

kicks the ball out of play, the award is two bases from the position of the runners at the

time the ball was kicked or deflected.

(10) If a fielder has complete possession of a batted or thrown ball and drops the ball while he is

out of play, or if the fielder drops such a ball and it then goes out of play, the award is two

bases from the position of the runners at the time the ball was dropped.

(11) If, in the judgment of the umpire, a fielder intentionally kicks or deflects a batted or thrown

ball out of play, the award is two bases from the time the ball was kicked or deflected.

[CricketChapman]

The answer to the OP is that R1 should be awarded 3B under OBR.  Here is some relevant information from 2013 PBUC (verbatim to the MLBUM language above):
 

6.8 BALLS DEFLECTED OUT OF PLAY

The Approved Ruling of Official Baseball Rule 7.05(h) provides that when a pitched ball deflects off the catcher and goes directly out of play, the award is one base from the time of the pitch. Likewise, when a throw from the pitcher while in contact with the rubber deflects off a fielder and goes directly out of play, the award is also one base.
 

However, the Approved Ruling also provides that if the pitched ball (or ball thrown by the pitcher while in contact with the rubber) goes through or by the catcher (or fielder), remains on the playing field, and is subsequently kicked or deflected out of play, the award is two bases from the time of the pitch.
 

The above rulings apply if the deflection is unintentional on the part of the fielder. If, in the judgment of the umpires, a fielder intentionally kicks or deflects any batted or thrown ball out of play, the award is two bases from the time the ball was kicked or deflected.

 

The following list helps summarize awards when a ball is deflected out of play:
 

If a pitched ball deflects off the catcher and goes directly out of play, the award is one base from the time of the pitch.
 

If a ball thrown by the pitcher while in contact with the rubber deflects off a fielder and goes directly out of play, the award is one base from the time of the throw.
 

If a pitched ball (or a ball thrown by the pitcher while in contact with the rubber) goes through or by the catcher (or fielder), remains on the playing field and is subsequently kicked or deflected out of play (unintentionally in either case), the award is two bases from the time of the pitch. This ruling applies without regard to whether or not the ball would have gone out of play had it not been kicked or deflected. (See the Approved Ruling to Official Baseball Rule 7.05(h).)