Partner not giving signals

[grayhawk]

Worked the bases for the first time in almost a year last night, and was working with a partner that is a good umpire, but not very well schooled in working together as a team. In our pregame meeting, we discussed our signals and agreed that he would cover third on a hit to the outfield with R1, or R1 and R3. The problem was, he failed to give me the signal every time we were in that situation. I'm trying to discreetly get his attention to make sure we were on the same page, but he often seemed to forget I was out there. I became concerned that we would both be in the cutout waiting for a play at 3rd because my perception was that he forgot, but perhaps he didn't and was rotating (without letting me know verbally during the play).

I reminded him between innings, but he continued to forget to signal. If that's the case what do you do as base ump when a 1st to 3rd situation unfolds, and your partner has not signaled. The only thing I could think of was if I heard him verbalize, "I've got third if he comes" then it's all his, but if I hear nothing, then I am taking the play to third.

Any suggestions on a better way to handle this?

[LMSANS]

Worked the bases for the first time in almost a year last night, and was working with a partner that is a good umpire, but not very well schooled in working together as a team. In our pregame meeting, we discussed our signals and agreed that he would cover third on a hit to the outfield with R1, or R1 and R3. The problem was, he failed to give me the signal every time we were in that situation. I'm trying to discreetly get his attention to make sure we were on the same page, but he often seemed to forget I was out there. I became concerned that we would both be in the cutout waiting for a play at 3rd because my perception was that he forgot, but perhaps he didn't and was rotating (without letting me know verbally during the play).

I reminded him between innings, but he continued to forget to signal. If that's the case what do you do as base ump when a 1st to 3rd situation unfolds, and your partner has not signaled. The only thing I could think of was if I heard him verbalize, "I've got third if he comes" then it's all his, but if I hear nothing, then I am taking the play to third.

Any suggestions on a better way to handle this?

It's either that or you ASSume he is going to take it and never look over there.

As you said, keep on it until you're called off. I had a similar situation last year, never heard my partner, but just before I was going to make the call, I looked up & saw him making the call. Trouble avoided & we discussed between innings. He said he called, but I never heard him.

[mstaylor]

If he doesn't signal, then do two things, as you start to shade toward third glance over your shoulder to see if he is coming, if he isn't cover third.

[mmiller32]

Worked the bases for the first time in almost a year last night, and was working with a partner that is a good umpire, but not very well schooled in working together as a team. In our pregame meeting, we discussed our signals and agreed that he would cover third on a hit to the outfield with R1, or R1 and R3. The problem was, he failed to give me the signal every time we were in that situation. I'm trying to discreetly get his attention to make sure we were on the same page, but he often seemed to forget I was out there. I became concerned that we would both be in the cutout waiting for a play at 3rd because my perception was that he forgot, but perhaps he didn't and was rotating (without letting me know verbally during the play).

I reminded him between innings, but he continued to forget to signal. If that's the case what do you do as base ump when a 1st to 3rd situation unfolds, and your partner has not signaled. The only thing I could think of was if I heard him verbalize, "I've got third if he comes" then it's all his, but if I hear nothing, then I am taking the play to third.

Any suggestions on a better way to handle this?

better to communicate even if it's a given, even if it's a given.. not to mention, it looks more professional.. i usually tell my partner it helps us both stay in the game if we do signals every scenerio

[mstaylor]

We have signals for different coverages, IFF and time plays. The only one I care about is the IFF and the wipeoff when it passes. The reason is I am notorious for forgetting IFF calls. I also once call one when R1, R2 had stolen second and third. Anything else I assume my partner will do his job. Now if it an inexperienced guy, I will throw him a sign to make sure he is awake. In our group the PU starts any signs. I do not throw signs back, I simply nod my head to let him know I have it. I prefer to not to look a lifeguard on the beach.

[Guest]

OK, I don't get this - are people incapable of, as Mike suggested, preparing for a non-rotation while looking over their shoulder to check if their partner is coming up the line?

Signal, no signal, bat signal...always be looking over your shoulder to make sure everything is going according to plan.

If you do have a guy who isn't signaling, relax!

This whole "discretely trying to get his attention" business..yeah, trust me - it's not so discrete. In fact, it does the exact opposite - it draws unnecessary attention to yourselves. People watching are going to be wondering "what is he doing?" and it is going to make the entire crew look like they're not on the same page.

Stay within your normal routine. Flash a signal in; if you don't get a return or a nod, chill. Wait until between innings to address it.

[RichMSN]

OK, I don't get this - are people incapable of, as Mike suggested, preparing for a non-rotation while looking over their shoulder to check if their partner is coming up the line?

Signal, no signal, bat signal...always be looking over your shoulder to make sure everything is going according to plan.

If you do have a guy who isn't signaling, relax!

This whole "discretely trying to get his attention" business..yeah, trust me - it's not so discrete. In fact, it does the exact opposite - it draws unnecessary attention to yourselves. People watching are going to be wondering "what is he doing?" and it is going to make the entire crew look like they're not on the same page.

Stay within your normal routine. Flash a signal in; if you don't get a return or a nod, chill. Wait until between innings to address it.

I work with the same handful of people. The only required signal is to point out a good looking mom in the stands.

Take a quick look to see if he's getting up the line and then yield to him. Not really a huge deal.

[UmpJM]

ump24,

...If you do have a guy who isn't signaling, relax!

...Stay within your normal routine. Flash a signal in; if you don't get a return or a nod, chill. Wait until between innings to address it.

Well said. I concur.

Rich,

... The only required signal is to point out a good looking mom in the stands. ...

Of course, that's just simple courtesy to your partner!

We go with something like this, followed by some indication of location (e.g. tap the right side of your head & flash 4 fingers for a GLM in the 4th row of the bleachers to the BU's right side). Of course, that's kind of an "advanced" mechanic. :

JM

[semper_fi_72]

We have signals for different coverages, IFF and time plays. The only one I care about is the IFF and the wipeoff when it passes. The reason is I am notorious for forgetting IFF calls. I also once call one when R1, R2 had stolen second and third. Anything else I assume my partner will do his job. Now if it an inexperienced guy, I will throw him a sign to make sure he is awake. In our group the PU starts any signs. I do not throw signs back, I simply nod my head to let him know I have it. I prefer to not to look a lifeguard on the beach.

Glad to hear I am not the only one that did it because my partner did not wipe it off and my mind just called it without the wipe off. :givebeer:

[yawetag]

If he doesn't signal, then do two things, as you start to shade toward third glance over your shoulder to see if he is coming, if he isn't cover third.

This. You should have a chance to glance over and see if he's there. If he isn't, cover the play.

[JaxRolo]

I had a partner giving me too many signals. He would signal for IFF anytime we had runners on 1st and 3rd also on 2nd and 3rd.

[noumpere]

If he doesn't signal, then do two things, as you start to shade toward third glance over your shoulder to see if he is coming, if he isn't cover third.

And if he does signal, still look to see if he's coming. Maybe he forgot after the signal. Maybe he tripped. Maybe he rolled an ankle in the pit in the batters box.

[mstaylor]

If he doesn't signal, then do two things, as you start to shade toward third glance over your shoulder to see if he is coming, if he isn't cover third.

And if he does signal, still look to see if he's coming. Maybe he forgot after the signal. Maybe he tripped. Maybe he rolled an ankle in the pit in the batters box.

Good point, no voice, look. I always thought it was an unnecessary signal because you should know he is coming but you still need to hear him call you off. He may braincramp or he may have fair/foul responsibility. I was working the bases the other day on a scrimmage with a second year umpire. He showed he was coming but then didn't. I explained between innings that if he signals that means he needs to come. He is still tenative on where to go and how far. I had him again Monday and I went out, turned back and he wasn't far from the plate. I then had to explain he has the runner. He said he knew but wasn't sure how far out to go. I told him he is now the BU and to go where the BU goes. I have him again in a couple of days. Rich will disagree with me but I am a firm believer in putting the new guy on the bases. I can fill holes better from the plate. I am putting on the plate in these scrimmages so he gets used to having to cover.

[Forest Ump]

If he doesn't signal, then do two things, as you start to shade toward third glance over your shoulder to see if he is coming, if he isn't cover third.

And if he does signal, still look to see if he's coming. Maybe he forgot after the signal. Maybe he tripped. Maybe he rolled an ankle in the pit in the batters box.

+1 on this. Even if he signals and communicates he has third, you still have to confirm. He might bust his tail on the way down to 3rd. When I was at the JEA DC last fall, they instructed us that the BU has responsibility for R1 going into third until you confirm that your partner has indeed rotated. We actually had a guy argue that. WTF, you come to a professional clinic and argue with the instructors. That dude got a nick name from day one. Oh crap, off on a tangent and ranting about something off topic. My bad.

[mstaylor]

I think any clinic ever run has that guy. It's twice as bad at pro school.

[grayhawk]

Good stuff everyone. I'll just have to make a mental note to "trust, but verify" that my partner is doing what he said he would do. I'll make sure to give a quick glance. Funny that this has not been taught in the clinics I have attended. I guess they just focus so much on drilling the plate mechanics on that play. One thing I know - if nobody is there to make the call, it's going to be the base umpire that everyone is going to blame.

[grayhawk]

OK, I don't get this - are people incapable of, as Mike suggested, preparing for a non-rotation while looking over their shoulder to check if their partner is coming up the line?

Signal, no signal, bat signal...always be looking over your shoulder to make sure everything is going according to plan.

If you do have a guy who isn't signaling, relax!

This whole "discretely trying to get his attention" business..yeah, trust me - it's not so discrete. In fact, it does the exact opposite - it draws unnecessary attention to yourselves. People watching are going to be wondering "what is he doing?" and it is going to make the entire crew look like they're not on the same page.

Stay within your normal routine. Flash a signal in; if you don't get a return or a nod, chill. Wait until between innings to address it.

Simmer down there sparky. It's not like I was getting my boy scout signal flags out. I did exactly as you descibe in bold type above.

[Dragon29]

OK - I don't want to hijack this thread (though it looks as though it's run its course) but how about working with a guy who not only signals too much, but too big!

Worked w/a guy last season who not only responded to any signals I gave (I was PU) but added a few of his own! He also performed his signals in what I would call a 'very large' manner. I'm not hiding the signals I send to my partner, but they're not obvious to anyone not looking at us. This guy looked like he couldn't decide whether to play hand-jive or land a plane. It was amazing. Interestingly enough, except for my occasional confusion re:what he was signaling back to me (that never seemed to make any difference) the game went very well. His coverage and rotations were solid and we worked well together. Go figure.

[mstaylor]

I know about the guy with big signals. I had a guy that would stand out in the middle and make the base coach look like he was slacking. Most of his signals I had no idea what they meant.

[yawetag]

That dude got a nick name from day one.

I'd love to know what it is.

[yawetag]

Good stuff everyone. I'll just have to make a mental note to "trust, but verify" that my partner is doing what he said he would do.

If he verbalizes that he's there, it's one less step for me. Your parter should, when he makes it to 3B, say "I've got third if he comes!" This should remind you that your duties to 3B are covered for R1. Then, if R1 heads to 3B, he should say "I've got third!" as a second reminder.

It's the ones that don't say anything that I have to watch.

On a similar note, I was BU with R1/R2 with 1 out last year. A deep fly ball to F8 caused R2 to attempt an advance to 3B. For some reason, I had concrete shoes and didn't move toward 3B until the ball was almost there. Luckily, the play wasn't close and R2 was safe. I looked at my partner with an "oops" look on my face. He looks back at me, points to himself, and mouths "Sorry about that." It was at that moment that I remember we pregamed that he would cover 3B in this situation.

In effect, I did the right thing by not taking R2 into 3B. However, as we were going over the game afterward, I apologized for not taking the runner. He again stated it was his fault and he should have been there. I stated, "Yes, but I have to cover for you when you make a mistake. I didn't do it. We both failed."

It's the same thing. If you don't hear your partner covering, make sure he is.

[Forest Ump]

Good stuff everyone. I'll just have to make a mental note to "trust, but verify" that my partner is doing what he said he would do.

If he verbalizes that he's there, it's one less step for me. Your parter should, when he makes it to 3B, say "I've got third if he comes!" This should remind you that your duties to 3B are covered for R1. Then, if R1 heads to 3B, he should say "I've got third!" as a second reminder.

It's the same thing. If you don't hear your partner covering, make sure he is.

This is what I was taught and try to practice.

He should say before he leaves the HP cutout,"I've got third if he comes". Then haul a$$ to the library, read ball, runner, fielder and if he has a play, step into the third base cutout while communicating twice "I've got third". Same thing on the tag up except now he says from HP CU "I've got third if he tags". If he calls an out at third, drop step back and head home on the foul side. If he calls safe, open the gate and take two side steps , wait and watch ball go back to pitcher. Head home on the fair side.

I own a pair of those concrete shoes too. I keep trying to forget em but they show up on occasion.

[Whonu19]

I think we have all worked with this person- My advice is do what you do and don't worry about it- If you signal every pitch, signal every pitch... If he mirrors you great- if not; who cares? I agree with everyone else that you should be peeking to see if your partner is going to get there even if he signals. Assume he is going to cover his position, but check it out just in case... I love when my partner gives six signals before every pitch and I am wondering if he even knows what they all mean (because i usually don't).

Best signal of all time is what we call Miller Time.... With two outs in the last half of the last inning, we give the "open the can" signal indicating that there is one more out and we are on our way to the bar!

[yawetag]

If you signal every pitch, signal every pitch... If he mirrors you great- if not; who cares?

Every pitch? Wow.

[UmpTTS43]

On rotations I look to see if my partner is there whether he veralized it or not. It is BU responsibility to make sure the play is covered.