Officiating trainwreck to end UW-ASU game.

[hbk314]

http://www.sbnation.com/2013/9/15/4732212/wisconsin-arizona-state-officiating

 

Oklahoma-Oregon onside kick debacle was worse, but I can't think of anything else.

 

Thoughts?

[mstaylor]

All I saw of the game was the clip so I have no reference for anything else. I am not a football official but here is my understanding as a fan only. Once the ball was snapped the only ways to stop the clock was spike it, throw an incomplete pass,call TO or have a penalty. Once he rolled spiking it is out. No pass was attempted so that's out. He tried to call time but he didn't have any. The article says the defender laid on the ball,which could be a penalty, sounds viable but that's it. The QB looks like he argues a little before he realizes the clock is running and then he can't get the play off. It looks like a mess but not entirely of the officials making.

[hbk314]

The clock was stopped at the start of the play. He ran to the middle of the field and took a knee with 15 seconds left on the clock. The officials failed to spot the ball in time for them to spike it and attempt a field goal. The mess was entirely of the officials making. Either stop the clock and get the ball set or throw a defensive delay of game flag. 

[mstaylor]

The QB did not take a knee, Jew touched the ball to the ground. The defense reads fumble, takes a couple of seconds to sort it out. What doesn't happen is the clock stop. If he wanted to stop the clock, spike it or throw it away. Any QB in the world knows that taking a knee does not stop the clock. That is exactly how they run out the clock at the end of the game. The line also makes no move to try to reset either. There is a gaff on the officials but it goes equally to the offense. <br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

[UMP45]

Who cares? This is an umpire website.

[hbk314]

The QB did not take a knee, Jew touched the ball to the ground. The defense reads fumble, takes a couple of seconds to sort it out. What doesn't happen is the clock stop. If he wanted to stop the clock, spike it or throw it away. Any QB in the world knows that taking a knee does not stop the clock. That is exactly how they run out the clock at the end of the game. The line also makes no move to try to reset either. There is a gaff on the officials but it goes equally to the offense. <br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

What play are you watching? The ball is snapped, he runs to the middle of the field, takes a knee, and sets the ball down so the officials can spot it for the next play.

At this point the officials completely fail to do their jobs, essentially giving Arizona State the game.

[mstaylor]

I will watch it when I have my computer. The fact remains why run the ball with 18 seconds left, and of he has properly downed it why not hand it to the official? Then why is the offense not scrambling to reset? We need Larry or Rich or other football official to weigh in,I am not that guy. As a Redskins fan I know piss poor clock management when I see it and it sure looks like the offense had a hand in it.<br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

[BRUMP]

@RichMSN is a football official and badgers fan. I wanna hear what he has to say.

[mstaylor]

Agreed <br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

[JaxRolo]

Where is the video?

[flastyle727]

As a football official I'll objectively say this is a travesty. A defensive delay of game was missed as ASU laid on the ball and would not allow the U to spot it. On another note, the QB for Wisconsin didn't help the situation, he took a knee and left the ball instead of simply tossing it to the referee or umpire. In my opinion the officials should have flagged ASU or Defensive Delay of game. Unfortunate incident and a black eye for officiating!

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[flastyle727]

From a coaching perspective, all Wisconsin tried to do was center the ball and with that amount of time they should have easily accomplished it. The officials did a poor job with game management, it shouldn't have taken 18 seconds to spot the football without a flag flying.

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[mstaylor]

Where is the video?

First post

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[maven]

I see nothing egregious here. The WIS QB set the ball down, but it's not obvious that the ball was dead. The defense was not unreasonable in jumping on a live ball, and I don't think they stayed on the ball long enough to warrant a flag for UNS. Normal time between a dead ball and making it ready is 13-15 seconds, and it's not the officials' fault that WIS can't manage the clock.

[mstaylor]

He touches the ball to the ground at 15 seconds. HE DOES NOT TAKE A KNEE. I have never seen a QB do that before. Then he argues with the ref until 3 seconds before he attempts to realign his offense. The  only thing the official did wrong to the untrained eye was not stop the clock if he was unsure if it was a fumble, or penalize the defense if he was sure it wasn't. Then he real mistake was not allowing the center to address the ball until he backed away. But more than half goes to the QB. 

[hbk314]

His knee clearly touched the ground. The play was called as such on the field.

[hbk314]

He touches the ball to the ground at 15 seconds. HE DOES NOT TAKE A KNEE. I have never seen a QB do that before. Then he argues with the ref until 3 seconds before he attempts to realign his offense. The  only thing the official did wrong to the untrained eye was not stop the clock if he was unsure if it was a fumble, or penalize the defense if he was sure it wasn't. Then he real mistake was not allowing the center to address the ball until he backed away. But more than half goes to the QB. 

 

Stave attempts to go to the line to spike the ball with more than 10 seconds left on the clock. He only goes to the referee because an ASU player is laying on the ball. The clock should have been stopped at that point to spot the ball properly.

 

It would have been an easy fix if the officials had simply talked about it. It doesn't take 15 seconds to spike the ball.

[flastyle727]

Edited: 13-15 seconds is far to long between dead ball and the ready whistle.... I disagree with you Maven.

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[hbk314]

I see nothing egregious here. The WIS QB set the ball down, but it's not obvious that the ball was dead. The defense was not unreasonable in jumping on a live ball, and I don't think they stayed on the ball long enough to warrant a flag for UNS. Normal time between a dead ball and making it ready is 13-15 seconds, and it's not the officials' fault that WIS can't manage the clock.

 

The play was whistled dead immediately after Stave took a knee. How is laying on the ball for seven seconds not long enough for a delay of game flag? The Badgers bear ZERO responsibility here.

[maven]

13-15 seconds is far to long between spotting and the ready whistle.... I disagree with you Maven.

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That's not what I said.

[mstaylor]

I see nothing egregious here. The WIS QB set the ball down, but it's not obvious that the ball was dead. The defense was not unreasonable in jumping on a live ball, and I don't think they stayed on the ball long enough to warrant a flag for UNS. Normal time between a dead ball and making it ready is 13-15 seconds, and it's not the officials' fault that WIS can't manage the clock.

 

The play was whistled dead immediately after Stave took a knee. How is laying on the ball for seven seconds not long enough for a delay of game flag? The Badgers bear ZERO responsibility here.

No knee was taken or attempted. Take a screen shot of his knee on the ground.

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[maven]

The play was whistled dead immediately after Stave took a knee. How is laying on the ball for seven seconds not long enough for a delay of game flag? The Badgers bear ZERO responsibility here.

Yawn. You sound like a fanboy.

 

WIS made a stupid error, trying to run a play with no time-outs, then downing the ball and leaving it on the ground (players know to hand it to the umpire). 17 seconds is not enough time to run 2 plays with no TO's unless you spike the ball.

 

I'm not flagging the defense when it's not obvious why the ball is on the ground. If you don't want people jumping on the ball, don't leave it on the ground.

 

I'd be surprised if the crew got dinged for this by the supervisor. If you like, I can look into it.

[maven]

No knee was taken or attempted. Take a screen shot of his knee on the ground.

Mike, he did tap his knee, and there's a shot of it in the OP-linked story. Wasn't much, but the R did see it and whistle it.

[umpstu]

I can't see him taking a knee in this video, although I did see another one and he did take a knee.  http://www.azcentral.com/sports/asu/articles/20130914asu-football-wins-in-bizarre-fashion-against-wisconsin.html

[flastyle727]

You said normal time between a dead ball and making it ready is 13-15 seconds....my apologies, however that is still far too long especially on a play in between the hashes

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