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Officiating trainwreck to end UW-ASU game.

hbk314

By hbk314
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maven

maven

Posted
Posted

You said normal time between a dead ball and making it ready is 13-15 seconds....my apologies, however that is still far too long especially on a play in between the hashes

 

Right. When NCAA changed their play clock rules, they built in time to set the ball. They went from 25 seconds to 40, which suggests that 15 seconds is about average from the dead ball to the RFP.

 

If anyone is interested, NCAA officials are discussing this play on another forum:

http://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=10335.msg99542

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RichMSN
RichMSN

On two forums, hbk314 has posted AD NAUSEUM about this.  I just wonder why he CARES so much.   I was somewhere over the Atlantic when this play happened and I'm flying back from the UK in the mornin

scrounge
scrounge

But when you do something goofy like a half-knee that kinda looks like no knee and it's very reasonable for the defense to think it's a fumble? Yea, it is kind of your job, at least if you don't want

flastyle727
flastyle727

It's over. Officials were sanctioned, tell Wisconsin too play better defense this week. Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4

mstaylor

mstaylor

Posted
Posted

I don't see it in the link provided in the OP. Is there is video of it I haven't seen it. The fact remains the clock doesn't stop and leaving it on the ground is a mistake.I am not saying the crew is blameless, but neither is the offense.<br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

hbk314

hbk314

Posted
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The play was whistled dead immediately after Stave took a knee. How is laying on the ball for seven seconds not long enough for a delay of game flag? The Badgers bear ZERO responsibility here.

Yawn. You sound like a fanboy.

 

WIS made a stupid error, trying to run a play with no time-outs, then downing the ball and leaving it on the ground (players know to hand it to the umpire). 17 seconds is not enough time to run 2 plays with no TO's unless you spike the ball.

 

I'm not flagging the defense when it's not obvious why the ball is on the ground. If you don't want people jumping on the ball, don't leave it on the ground.

 

I'd be surprised if the crew got dinged for this by the supervisor. If you like, I can look into it.

This is the kind of situation that should result in suspensions for the crew. They did everything wrong. They completely abandoned the game with 15 seconds still on the clock.

mstaylor

mstaylor

Posted
Posted

And I think that is completely wrong. They were not perfect but they didn't completely screw it up. The offense did.<br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

hbk314

hbk314

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The offense was lined up to spike the ball with 10 seconds left. They were unable to do so because the officials let an ASU player lay on the ball for 7 seconds.

How is the offense responsible for the officials taking 15 seconds to spot the ball?

LMSANS

LMSANS

Posted
Posted

His knee was down...the whistles are the reaction to it.  If this happens in the middle of the first quarter, nothing happens.  That being said, it gave ASU an advantage...Delay of Game...stop the clock for penalty enforcement.  Clock starts on the Ready-for-play whistle.

 

Delay of Game is a judgement call.  Sometimes it doesn't look good.

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maven

maven

Posted
Posted

By not handing the ball to an official, and thereby creating sufficient confusion to allow B to jump on the ball and not be liable for DOG or UNS. maven

hbk314

hbk314

Posted
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By not handing the ball to an official, and thereby creating sufficient confusion to allow B to jump on the ball and not be liable for DOG or UNS.

maven

Either way you still have to spot the ball. If you don't feel it should be penalized, simply stop the clock so you can sort out the situation.
mstaylor

mstaylor

Posted
Posted

At 8 seconds the QB is still talking to the white hat. At 5 seconds the QB goes toward the line. At 3 seconds he backs off. At 1 second, maybe 1.5 he  starts trying to get his guys in place. That doesn't mean they couldn't have been faster but they were not the sole problem. I have no dog in this hunt, I am not an official, just a fan of college football. Obviously that can not said for you. 

hbk314

hbk314

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At 8 seconds the QB is still talking to the white hat. At 5 seconds the QB goes toward the line. At 3 seconds he backs off. At 1 second, maybe 1.5 he  starts trying to get his guys in place. That doesn't mean they couldn't have been faster but they were not the sole problem. I have no dog in this hunt, I am not an official, just a fan of college football. Obviously that can not said for you.

He was at the line trying to run a play before he was talking to the referee. He was talking to the referee because ASU was laying on the ball.

maven

maven

Posted
Posted

Either way you still have to spot the ball. If you don't feel it should be penalized, simply stop the clock so you can sort out the situation.

 

That's not a mechanic at any level and would unfairly advantage the offense. And, there's nothing to sort out.

 

Look, you don't like how it was handled because your team lost. Fine, I get that. But the crew did fine under the circumstances, and you're wrong to blame them for the loss. You don't change mechanics because something unusual happens.

hbk314

hbk314

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Posted

Either way you still have to spot the ball. If you don't feel it should be penalized, simply stop the clock so you can sort out the situation.

 

That's not a mechanic at any level and would unfairly advantage the offense. And, there's nothing to sort out.

 

Look, you don't like how it was handled because your team lost. Fine, I get that. But the crew did fine under the circumstances, and you're wrong to blame them for the loss. You don't change mechanics because something unusual happens.

You cannot simply let the clock keep running for 7 seconds with a defensive player laying on top of it preventing the official from spotting it. Period. The officials botched every aspect of the play whether you want to admit it or not.

CentralOhioUmp30

CentralOhioUmp30

Posted
Posted

Wow. Had this discussion on my recruiting forum. I'm a HUGE Ohio State fan and I would be fine with every other B1G school losing every game they play if it was possible. That being said, Wisconsin was screwed.

I agree with you guys who said ASU had a right to get on the ball. What I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that the whistle wasn't blown. The clock should have been stopped either for a change of possession (which would've been overturned via replay) or a delay of game penalty. There's just no logical reason to allow the clock to run while a defensive player is on top of the ball. NONE! If you argue otherwise you're either an ASU fan or too dumb to even have an opinion on this subject.

The fact is, the play was run with 18 seconds on the clock and the Badger offense was ready to spike the ball with 8 or 9 seconds left. The umpire was standing there with his dick in his hand while watching the defensive player lie on the ball and then ended his hypnosis when he realized an actual game was going on.

Finally, the referees running off the field before even discussing it with coaches or themselves was incredibly weak. Not sure if there was anything eligible for review there because the only thing that was f'ed up was the officiating.

18 seconds is an incredible amount of time to run a play between the hashes. Players at any level of football could do that.

Don't know how these officials end up not being suspended for at least one game.

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CentralOhioUmp30

CentralOhioUmp30

Posted
Posted

And I think that is completely wrong. They were not perfect but they didn't completely screw it up. The offense did.<br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

Which part was not completely screwed up by the officials? Think about it. It was as if there weren't any officials out there during the last 18 seconds. Must be nice.

mstaylor

mstaylor

Posted
Posted

Then why did the QB say he smoked the play? A whistle was blown but because of the way the QB downed the ball and left it lay, it was so weird it looked like a live ball. From the sideline camera, and the white hat's angle, there was not even an attempt at a knee. I can't explain why the two looks are so completely different but it was. However, by downing it, the clock runs, Wi showed no urgency to get to the line and it was only in the last three seconds that they ctively tried to get to the line. This was not a hatchet job by the officials, not the most efficient but not a meltdown that some are saying. 

maven

maven

Posted
Posted

There's just no logical reason to allow the clock to run while a defensive player is on top of the ball. NONE!

 

Logic has nothing to do with it. No rule supports stopping the clock in that instance.

 

Don't believe me? Here's the NCAA rulebook (free in PDF and eBook), download it and show me the rule that requires stopping the clock "while a defensive player is on top of the ball."

http://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4309-2013-and-2014-ncaa-football-rules-and-interpretations.aspx

 

Wisconsin's QB admits his errors created the problem. If he hands the ball to the U, there's no confusion, and they have time to set and spike.

 

Stave told reporters that he is certain he downed the football, but he admitted one mistake: "I've just got to make sure I'm not spotting (the ball) myself," he said. "I've got to hang onto the ball so only me and the ref are touching it."

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/pac12/2013/09/15/arizona-state-sun-devils-wisconsin-badgers-referee-controversy/2817637/

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CentralOhioUmp30

CentralOhioUmp30

Posted
Posted

Ok. Refs did absolutely nothing wrong. Wisconsin is completely stupid for thinking they could move the ball a couple yards to the left with 18 seconds left and still have time to spike the ball so that they could attempt the FG.

The officials did so well that they should be selected for the BCS championship game.

Officials rejoice!

mstaylor

mstaylor

Posted
Posted

Ok. Refs did absolutely nothing wrong. Wisconsin is completely stupid for thinking they could move the ball a couple yards to the left with 18 seconds left and still have time to spike the ball so that they could attempt the FG.

The officials did so well that they should be selected for the BCS championship game.

Officials rejoice!

Have you read the thread at all? I said right from the get go I am not a football official, I am a fan. I said the officials are not without blame but it was not the goat roping you seem to believe. Plus, there is a huge difference between the two camera angles, which is how the officials saw it. The QB set the ball on the ground instead of handing it to the U. This allowed confusion and the defense jumped on a potentionally live ball. I haven't seen this definitively but my understanding was WI linemen did too. 

mstaylor

mstaylor

Posted
Posted

@CentralOhioUmp30,@hbk314, I see they reprimanded the officials. I personally don't see the need but they did make mistakes, which I said in my first post and almost every post in this thread. To me I could see discussing it with the crew and reviewing what they could have done better. But WI also contributed to the mess, which the QB agreed with. The line did not try to set, the QB did not push them to set. If they were all in position waiting for the officials then putting it all on the officials makes sense. Neither team nor the officials grabbed the bull by the horns and took care of business. 

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flastyle727

flastyle727

Posted
Posted

By not handing the ball to an official, and thereby creating sufficient confusion to allow B to jump on the ball and not be liable for DOG or UNS. maven

 

Maven your wrong this time, it is not the players job to hand the ball to an official. It is beneficial, I concur. However there are NUMEROUS times throught a game that I turn to the ball boy and say "give me a new one" because the other ball is in the opposite side zone or bouncing away on an incomplete pass.  The officials should have handled the situation better, period.  

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