Is this a balk?

[PonyUmpire]

Hey guys. I've been umpiring a lot of travel recently, and there's something I've seen a few times that doesn't look quite right to me. I've seen righty pitchers, immediately before a jump turn to 1st, do some kind of abrupt motion. For example, I had a pitcher quickly shrug his shoulders, then go for the pick off. Is this a balk?

[Texas Manny]

8.05 A: The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch and fails to deliver.

 

Does he do it every time when coming to the set position, regardless of the runners? If so, let it go. If only when runners are on 1st, then I'd bang him with a balk. I would need to know his pitching habits and routine. That's going to be key in this situation as to whether he does it all the time, or just when advantageous, like with a runner on first, or second, or both.

 

I hope I explained that right...

[BRUMP]

hate to cop out of an answer but this is really hard to visualize

[PonyUmpire]

hate to cop out of an answer but this is really hard to visualize

Pitcher comes set, flinches in some way, then immediately goes into a jump turn to first.

[Jocko]

Balk. I don't care if he does it every time or not. He has to either pitch or step off/pick-off legally. I think I have a pretty good visual of this, and I'm bangin it.

The myth that because he does it all the time it's legal is laughable, to say the least. Sorry, Manny, but I disagree CATEGORICALLY with your response.

[Jocko]

hate to cop out of an answer but this is really hard to visualize

Pitcher comes set, flinches in some way, then immediately goes into a jump turn to first.by definition, start/stop balk

[JaxRolo]

I agree with Jocko. Sounds like a flinch. Balk!!!

[Texas Manny]

 Sorry, Manny, but I disagree CATEGORICALLY with your response.

I responded that way because I had a question as to if the movement was made while his hands were coming to a stop. I've seen this before and it's just part of the regular motion. NO BALK. However, if it is done, after the stop, then he throws to first base, "That's a balk! Time! You, second base!" Undeniably.

 

I've seen some crazy movements here recently during Texas League AA games that made me double take, but as long as the hands were still coming down to the stop, NO BALK. That's why I said, if he does it every time, aka, while the hands are still coming to a stop, let it go. I just didn't explain myself well enough.

 

Always open to correction.

 

(Time is only called once you are certain no other play is in progress.)

[baseballfan]

Balk. I don't care if he does it every time or not. He has to either pitch or step off/pick-off legally. I think I have a pretty good visual of this, and I'm bangin it.

The myth that because he does it all the time it's legal is laughable, to say the least. Sorry, Manny, but I disagree CATEGORICALLY with your response.

 

Okay, but you will see guys in MLB with technically illegal motions as part of their pitching motion every time, particularly with relief pitchers who always go from the stretch. Yet MLB umps won't call the balk. So, where do you draw the line here between balking the guy and not balking the guy who does something "illegal" every time?

[plateumpire]

 

Balk. I don't care if he does it every time or not. He has to either pitch or step off/pick-off legally. I think I have a pretty good visual of this, and I'm bangin it.

The myth that because he does it all the time it's legal is laughable, to say the least. Sorry, Manny, but I disagree CATEGORICALLY with your response.

 

Okay, but you will see guys in MLB with technically illegal motions as part of their pitching motion every time, particularly with relief pitchers who always go from the stretch. Yet MLB umps won't call the balk. So, where do you draw the line here between balking the guy and not balking the guy who does something "illegal" every time?

 

I remember this coming up at a camp I was at. James Hoye said that Mariano Rivera stops twice every time he pitches. He told us that none of the umpires call that a balk even though it is a balk. 

[BRUMP]

 

 

Balk. I don't care if he does it every time or not. He has to either pitch or step off/pick-off legally. I think I have a pretty good visual of this, and I'm bangin it.

The myth that because he does it all the time it's legal is laughable, to say the least. Sorry, Manny, but I disagree CATEGORICALLY with your response.

 

Okay, but you will see guys in MLB with technically illegal motions as part of their pitching motion every time, particularly with relief pitchers who always go from the stretch. Yet MLB umps won't call the balk. So, where do you draw the line here between balking the guy and not balking the guy who does something "illegal" every time?

 

I remember this coming up at a camp I was at. James Hoye said that Mariano Rivera stops twice every time he pitches. He told us that none of the umpires call that a balk even though it is a balk. 

 

 

there is a benefit to being a living legend

 

hate to cop out of an answer but this is really hard to visualize

Pitcher comes set, flinches in some way, then immediately goes into a jump turn to first.

 

start/stop balk

[Texas Manny]

I did not see the second thread entry from Pony. I further explained in my response to Jocko.

 

BALK!

[Jocko]

Balk. I don't care if he does it every time or not. He has to either pitch or step off/pick-off legally. I think I have a pretty good visual of this, and I'm bangin it.The myth that because he does it all the time it's legal is laughable, to say the least. Sorry, Manny, but I disagree CATEGORICALLY with your response.

 Okay, but you will see guys in MLB with technically illegal motions as part of their pitching motion every time, particularly with relief pitchers who always go from the stretch. Yet MLB umps won't call the balk. So, where do you draw the line here between balking the guy and not balking the guy who does something "illegal" every time?I draw the line at the gate. When in Rome, do what you do. I'm not a balk hawk. I let far more go than I call. I was just responding as per textbook. Just umpire. If a granny in the stands knows it was funky, call it. Also, depends on level. I let small technical balks go on younger guys.

[maven]

Ignore what they do in MLB, which is its own little world. Enforce the rules.

 

The rules require F1 to step and throw/feint to a base. Step is first — not shrug, not flinch, not wiggle. If he shrugs as part of his pitching motion, fine, but when he shrugs and then tries a pickoff that is a balk.

[mstaylor]

Balk it, forget what the pros do, they will call flinches we would never touch and let elephant balks go. 

[UmpJeff]

+1

[noumpere]

And if you do call it don't explain it as "shrugged his shoulders" because that isn't in the book.  Use book language.

[PonyUmpire]

Thanks for the response guys.  I really felt like this might be a balk, especially since it seemed as though the pitchers were doing it deliberately to get the runner to break for second.

[Jocko]

Balk. I don't care if he does it every time or not. He has to either pitch or step off/pick-off legally. I think I have a pretty good visual of this, and I'm bangin it.The myth that because he does it all the time it's legal is laughable, to say the least. Sorry, Manny, but I disagree CATEGORICALLY with your response.

 Okay, but you will see guys in MLB with technically illegal motions as part of their pitching motion every time, particularly with relief pitchers who always go from the stretch. Yet MLB umps won't call the balk. So, where do you draw the line here between balking the guy and not balking the guy who does something "illegal" every time?

I remember this coming up at a camp I was at. James Hoye said that Mariano Rivera stops twice every time he pitches. He told us that none of the umpires call that a balk even though it is a balk.

just watched Mo get his 40th save of the season. Didnt see him stop twice once. Lol. Sorry, Hoye, but on this, I'm gonna claim Missouri residence.....show me

[Rich Ives]

 

 

 

Balk. I don't care if he does it every time or not. He has to either pitch or step off/pick-off legally. I think I have a pretty good visual of this, and I'm bangin it.The myth that because he does it all the time it's legal is laughable, to say the least. Sorry, Manny, but I disagree CATEGORICALLY with your response.

 Okay, but you will see guys in MLB with technically illegal motions as part of their pitching motion every time, particularly with relief pitchers who always go from the stretch. Yet MLB umps won't call the balk. So, where do you draw the line here between balking the guy and not balking the guy who does something "illegal" every time? I remember this coming up at a camp I was at. James Hoye said that Mariano Rivera stops twice every time he pitches. He told us that none of the umpires call that a balk even though it is a balk. just watched Mo get his 40th save of the season. Didnt see him stop twice once. Lol. Sorry, Hoye, but on this, I'm gonna claim Missouri residence.....show me

 

 

Never seen him stop twice either.

 

My favorite set move is still El Tiante.

[Richvee]

 

 

 

Balk. I don't care if he does it every time or not. He has to either pitch or step off/pick-off legally. I think I have a pretty good visual of this, and I'm bangin it.The myth that because he does it all the time it's legal is laughable, to say the least. Sorry, Manny, but I disagree CATEGORICALLY with your response.

 Okay, but you will see guys in MLB with technically illegal motions as part of their pitching motion every time, particularly with relief pitchers who always go from the stretch. Yet MLB umps won't call the balk. So, where do you draw the line here between balking the guy and not balking the guy who does something "illegal" every time? I remember this coming up at a camp I was at. James Hoye said that Mariano Rivera stops twice every time he pitches. He told us that none of the umpires call that a balk even though it is a balk. just watched Mo get his 40th save of the season. Didnt see him stop twice once. Lol. Sorry, Hoye, but on this, I'm gonna claim Missouri residence.....show me

 

As a matter of fact, with no runners on. Mo doesn't stop ONCE! 

[JaxRolo]

 

 

 

 

Balk. I don't care if he does it every time or not. He has to either pitch or step off/pick-off legally. I think I have a pretty good visual of this, and I'm bangin it.The myth that because he does it all the time it's legal is laughable, to say the least. Sorry, Manny, but I disagree CATEGORICALLY with your response.

 Okay, but you will see guys in MLB with technically illegal motions as part of their pitching motion every time, particularly with relief pitchers who always go from the stretch. Yet MLB umps won't call the balk. So, where do you draw the line here between balking the guy and not balking the guy who does something "illegal" every time? I remember this coming up at a camp I was at. James Hoye said that Mariano Rivera stops twice every time he pitches. He told us that none of the umpires call that a balk even though it is a balk. just watched Mo get his 40th save of the season. Didnt see him stop twice once. Lol. Sorry, Hoye, but on this, I'm gonna claim Missouri residence.....show me

 

 

Never seen him stop twice either.

 

My favorite set move is still El Tiante.

 

Luis Tiant! My hero!!!!