Crazy Pick off attempt , a balk?

[mw94]

FED Rules 18u tourney, Only R2 on base , while engaged  pitcher steps and throws too 2nd  base , the ball slips from his hand  and  basically winds up spiking the ball straight down on the back of the mound the ball hits the area where the dirt meets grass on the pitchers mound and rolls right to F5!!!  R2 was diving back in to 2nd .  Balk for throwing to an unoccupied base??  I called nothing .

[baseballfan]

Don't know about FED rules on this one, but by OBR, if the pitcher drops the ball while on the rubber, it's a balk.

[Oldcrow]

MLB rules state that anytime a pitcher accidently or intentionally drops the ball it is a balk...Not sure about FED

[mw94]

he really did not drop the ball it was more like he threw the ball into the ground? Think Pete Rose spiking the ball after the 3rd out when he played 1st base.

[Oldcrow]

he really did not drop the ball it was more like he threw the ball into the ground? Think Pete Rose spiking the ball after the 3rd out when he played 1st base.

Even in this case I judge that the ball was mishandled and dropped. Balk

[umpire_scott]

I thought the act of stepping towards the base was judged as an act of disengaging (even if the throw is a fake).  Think about the old fake to 3rd throw to first play.  If the pitcher thew the ball out of play when throwing to first wouldn't the runner get 2 bases since the pitcher was now a fielder? 

 

I may be wrong, but I would think that the step disengaged the pitcher and then the throw was actually a fake to second (which is legal) and the ball simply dropped from his hands.  I'd have nothing. 

[alex7]

Valid point to argue about:  difference between a drop and a really bad throw that slips out of the hand.

[Dragon29]

I thought the act of stepping towards the base was judged as an act of disengaging (even if the throw is a fake). Think about the old fake to 3rd throw to first play. If the pitcher thew the ball out of play when throwing to first wouldn't the runner get 2 bases since the pitcher was now a fielder?

 

I may be wrong, but I would think that the step disengaged the pitcher and then the throw was actually a fake to second (which is legal) and the ball simply dropped from his hands. I'd have nothing.

 

The step towards the base is not in and of itself disengaging. If it was, it would be impossible for a pitcher to throw to a base while engaged, and we all know they can do that.

 

F1 must disengage before the throw to be a fielder; otherwise he's engaged and a pitcher. 1 base if thrown OOP.

 

This is a balk.

[pnewton]

I am calling this a "wild throw" to second base and so nothing.  My logic is that if a pitch slips out of the hand and still crosses the foul line it is called a ball and not a balk, implying it's just a really poor pitch rather than something illegal <This is OBR, I don't know FED>.  If it was clear based on his step to second and the situation that the intention was the throw to second then that's what it was, it just went really wide.

[bam]

Calling this a balk is nit-picking.  By description it's not a drop.  It's a bad throw.  

 

If the pitcher airmails it to F8 are you calling THAT a balk?  

[Dragon29]

No, of course not.  I guess I'd have to see it then - In my mind, as described I have a balk.

 

Anyone else care to weigh in?  (& tell me I'm wrong - I may well be)

[Oldcrow]

Calling this a balk is nit-picking.  By description it's not a drop.  It's a bad throw.  

 

If the pitcher airmails it to F8 are you calling THAT a balk?  

 

Like Dragon, I would have to see it...But the way it is described in the OP, I would never call that a throw of any kind...It came out of his hand and hit below him...Even the poster described it as a "Slip" in the OP.... It hits Just off the mound and at the grass edge?  I'm not sure anyone could convince me this was a thrown pick off attempt.

[JaxRolo]

No way I'm calling a balk on this. It's no different than throwing the ball 100 feet over 2nd base. He just threw it downward instead of upward.

[HeadHunterLA]

Bad throw, no balk IMHO

[maven]

Could be a bad feint. ;)

[UmpJM]

As described, no way I'm calling a balk on this. (And I really LIKE to call balks!)

 

Once the pitcher lands his step in the general direction of 2B, he has completed his obligation under the balk rules.

 

If he loses control of a feint or makes a bad throw afterwards, it's nothin'.

 

Live ball, play the bounce.

 

JM

[mstaylor]

I agree with John, the step was toward second, he doesn't have to throw so a bad throw is nothing. 

[Dragon29]

OK - I was wrong; I can see that now. The step should have been all I needed.

[JaxRolo]

OK - I was wrong

Again??? 😃

[blue23ll]

No balk on this, absent any other issues. This is a fake to 2nd base, he is not standing on the rubber waiting to pitch, when the ball slipped from his hand. As far as what is considered disengaged from the rubber, the pitcher has to actually step off the rubber to be considered an infielder. There are many instances where the pitcher isn't actually touching the rubber when the pick off is made, but because he didn't purposely step off the rubber, they are considered to be making the move from the rubber.

[Dragon29]

 

OK - I was wrong

Again???

 

 

Sorry - I know you're disappointed in me.

 

Won't happen again. (until the next time)

[sdix00]

No Balk. 

 

Agree with John and MST.   Once F1 Steps to second base for the purpose of making a play, he is done.    He is not required to throw, but if he does, there is nothing that says he can't throw it to the Center fielder or straight down to the dirt.

 

Really, the only place he can't throw during that move is 1B or 3B.

[Les-Aussie-Ump]

Agree NOT A BALK would like to add that it sounds like there was no intent to deceive. If he intended to deceive he done a bad job because he longer had the ball in is hand to make the play

[Mike Prince]

Intent not really at play here, this is more of a straight rule interp to me. No balk.

[noumpere]

What if the same thing happened but to first?   Or third under the new OBR rules?   Why?

 

(asked mostly to help clarify the ruling for the OP and whoever else it was that got it wrong)