Problem Coach

CricketChapman · May 9, 2013

Disclaimer: This was a 9-10 Minors Cal Ripken game (OBR mod.); this is the lowest level (and poorest quality) of kid pitch in our area. My assignor told me before the game that HT HC had already caused problems with two other umpires, seemed to be picking on the younger umpires who usually work these games, and that HT HC called one umpire an "asshole," but quietly enough that the umpire could not hear it. The best part: my assignor's stepson plays on this guy's team. Thus, he assigned another veteran umpire and myself to this game - I was BU.

Pre-Ejection: Top 1, HT HC voiced displeasure with a ball call (B did not swing; he was avoiding an inside pitch - again, these are 9-10 MINORS). HT HC responded sarcastically in the dugout after PU gave a quick and reasonable explanation.

Between innings, coach began an argument with PU over the previous call. HT HC could not understand PU's explanation; PU gave me the "come here" sign, so I intervened and clarified. HT HC displayed little knowledge of OBR, implying at one point that it's a strike "when the bat crosses the plate." Note that this was an "argument," and not a "discussion" - HT HC's apparently started the argument with a question, but then continued on and on until I came over.

Ejection: Bot 1, after BR grounded out for third out of inning, I jogged towards the backstop to get some water. At this point, HT HC loudly states to BR, "Don't worry, BR, you were WAY safe. WAY safe." I, standing 20-25 feet away, calmly state, "That's too loud, coach. Too loud." I figured this was a more appropriate action than issuing a formal warning/"that's enough" because I was unsure if HT HC was intending for me to hear it or if he was simply a loud speaker.

HT HC responds, "I was talking to my player," and then, in a VERY aggressive and volatile tone (while pointing his finger toward me), "I wasn't talking to you; YOU'LL KNOW WHEN I'M TALKING TO YOU." HT HC's comment was loud enough that parents/fans could hear it (as confirmed by my assignor). HT HC was then ejected.

Post-Ejection: After a brief discussion, HT HC left the field but sat at the top of the stands. Play was paused as PU informed HT HC he needed to leave; HT HC responded that he was keeping score. PU informed HT HC someone else needed to do that now. HT HC then held-up play for roughly 2 mins while handing the scorepad off to a parent.

HT ended up losing 17-2.

HeadHunterLA · May 9, 2013

Never ceases to amaze me that the ones with attitude know nothing about baseball and rules. Good ejection, coaches like this need to be removed permanently, bad example for the kids.

mstaylor · May 9, 2013

Got to love being the gunslinger. You don't look to toss, just to control, but it usually ends up with an ejection.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

bam · May 9, 2013

Pre-Ejection: Top 1, HT HC voiced displeasure with a ball call (B did not swing; he was avoiding an inside pitch - again, these are 9-10 MINORS). HT HC responded sarcastically in the dugout after PU gave a quick and reasonable explanation.
Between innings, coach began an argument with PU over the previous call. HT HC could not understand PU's explanation; PU gave me the "come here" sign, so I intervened and clarified. HT HC displayed little knowledge of OBR, implying at one point that it's a strike "when the bat crosses the plate." Note that this was an "argument," and not a "discussion" - HT HC's apparently started the argument with a question, but then continued on and on until I came over.

NEVER give "an explanation" of balls/strikes. EVER!

If he continues even the "discussion", never mind an "argument", between innings, simply dump him.

The rest of the mess was the PU's fault for not dumping him sooner.

James Walker · May 9, 2013

Got to love being three gunslinger. You don't look to toss, just to control, but it usually ends up with an ejection.Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

It can be fun, until coaches start to understand that you're there for one reason. Then its really fun cause that coach is on pins and needles all night. Those are some quiet games.

James Walker · May 9, 2013

Pre-Ejection: Top 1, HT HC voiced displeasure with a ball call (B did not swing; he was avoiding an inside pitch - again, these are 9-10 MINORS). HT HC responded sarcastically in the dugout after PU gave a quick and reasonable explanation.Between innings, coach began an argument with PU over the previous call. HT HC could not understand PU's explanation; PU gave me the "come here" sign, so I intervened and clarified. HT HC displayed little knowledge of OBR, implying at one point that it's a strike "when the bat crosses the plate." Note that this was an "argument," and not a "discussion" - HT HC's apparently started the argument with a question, but then continued on and on until I came over.

NEVER give "an explanation" of balls/strikes. EVER!If he continues even the "discussion", never mind an "argument", between innings, simply dump him.The rest of the mess was the PU's fault for not dumping him sooner.

I agree. He's either ignorant or an a$$hole, probably both.

stl_ump · May 9, 2013

Pre-Ejection: Top 1, HT HC voiced displeasure with a ball call (B did not swing; he was avoiding an inside pitch - again, these are 9-10 MINORS). HT HC responded sarcastically in the dugout after PU gave a quick and reasonable explanation.
Between innings, coach began an argument with PU over the previous call. HT HC could not understand PU's explanation; PU gave me the "come here" sign, so I intervened and clarified. HT HC displayed little knowledge of OBR, implying at one point that it's a strike "when the bat crosses the plate." Note that this was an "argument," and not a "discussion" - HT HC's apparently started the argument with a question, but then continued on and on until I came over.

NEVER give "an explanation" of balls/strikes. EVER!
If he continues even the "discussion", never mind an "argument", between innings, simply dump him.
The rest of the mess was the PU's fault for not dumping him sooner.

Learned that the semi-hardway the other night. No more Mr Nice Guy.

Dannytheman · May 9, 2013

Coaches like this one need to be drummed out of the league. They set an unsportsmanlike attitude for their players to openly see. If he is like this in front of youth umpires, I can't imagine what he is teaching behind their backs.

As a UIC of a league, I take these straight to the managers I get complaints about. I tell them I have advised the young umps to "just toss him!"

upnorth928 · May 10, 2013

Good toss!

Coaches like this one need to be drummed out of the league. They set an unsportsmanlike attitude for their players to openly see. If he is like this in front of youth umpires, I can't imagine what he is teaching behind their backs.

Exactly!

carolinablue · May 10, 2013

HT ended up losing 17-2.

It seems that teams with coaches like this are invariably bad.

Stan W. · May 10, 2013

Got to love being the gunslinger. You don't look to toss, just to control, but it usually ends up with an ejection.
Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

Been the "new Sheriff in town" once or twice myself..............lol

dumbdumb · May 10, 2013

Disclaimer: This was a 9-10 Minors Cal Ripken game (OBR mod.); this is the lowest level (and poorest quality) of kid pitch in our area. My assignor told me before the game that HT HC had already caused problems with two other umpires, seemed to be picking on the younger umpires who usually work these games, and that HT HC called one umpire an "asshole," but quietly enough that the umpire could not hear it. The best part: my assignor's stepson plays on this guy's team. Thus, he assigned another veteran umpire and myself to this game - I was BU.

Pre-Ejection: Top 1, HT HC voiced displeasure with a ball call (B did not swing; he was avoiding an inside pitch - again, these are 9-10 MINORS). HT HC responded sarcastically in the dugout after PU gave a quick and reasonable explanation.
Between innings, coach began an argument with PU over the previous call. HT HC could not understand PU's explanation; PU gave me the "come here" sign, so I intervened and clarified. HT HC displayed little knowledge of OBR, implying at one point that it's a strike "when the bat crosses the plate." Note that this was an "argument," and not a "discussion" - HT HC's apparently started the argument with a question, but then continued on and on until I came over.
Ejection: Bot 1, after BR grounded out for third out of inning, I jogged towards the backstop to get some water. At this point, HT HC loudly states to BR, "Don't worry, BR, you were WAY safe. WAY safe." I, standing 20-25 feet away, calmly state, "That's too loud, coach. Too loud." I figured this was a more appropriate action than issuing a formal warning/"that's enough" because I was unsure if HT HC was intending for me to hear it or if he was simply a loud speaker.

HT HC responds, "I was talking to my player," and then, in a VERY aggressive and volatile tone (while pointing his finger toward me), "I wasn't talking to you; YOU'LL KNOW WHEN I'M TALKING TO YOU." HT HC's comment was loud enough that parents/fans could hear it (as confirmed by my assignor). HT HC was then ejected.
Post-Ejection: After a brief discussion, HT HC left the field but sat at the top of the stands. Play was paused as PU informed HT HC he needed to leave; HT HC responded that he was keeping score. PU informed HT HC someone else needed to do that now. HT HC then held-up play for roughly 2 mins while handing the scorepad off to a parent.

HT ended up losing 17-2.

"My assignor told me before the game that HT HC had already caused problems with two other umpires, seemed to be picking on the younger umpires who usually work these games, and that HT HC called one umpire an "asshole," but quietly enough that the umpire could not hear it. The best part: my assignor's stepson plays on this guy's team".

Very, very disappointed your assignor has not gone to the league on the staff's (yours and others) behalf and told the league to put a lid on this jack wagon or they can search for other umpires. He is basically condoning this behavior with you young umpires to keep the assigning fees rolling or to keep his kid on the team. He should grow a pair and handle this since he definitely knows about it, and silence in this case is just condoning this JW's deportment. I have now lost respect for 2 people in this OP.

BalkHawk · May 10, 2013

The problem is every team has a coach.

:givebeer:

James Walker · May 10, 2013

The problem is every team has a coach.

Aint that the truth...

hill2933 · May 10, 2013

I coached in a league a few years back that got very competitive between coaches. Basically ended up being all about the coaches and not the players. Bunch of grown men with their zippers down and tape measures out! My friend and I decided we had had enough and when we got to the tournament at the end of the year we never left the dugout. Kids made the line ups, coached the bases and even decided who pitched. The kids loved it! Our parents didn't know what to think but after a while they really got into it too. Hell we even won a couple of games like that. Still have parents that bring it up when I see them. I would love to see leagues go to something like this. Kids have to learn the complete game instead of just doing what they are told and it is amazing how fast they pick things up. nothing better than a kid calling time from the bench to go settle down his pitcher (and set up the hidden ball trick)

BigUmpire · May 10, 2013

Pre-Ejection: Top 1, HT HC voiced displeasure with a ball call (B did not swing; he was avoiding an inside pitch - again, these are 9-10 MINORS). HT HC responded sarcastically in the dugout after PU gave a quick and reasonable explanation.Between innings, coach began an argument with PU over the previous call. HT HC could not understand PU's explanation; PU gave me the "come here" sign, so I intervened and clarified. HT HC displayed little knowledge of OBR, implying at one point that it's a strike "when the bat crosses the plate." Note that this was an "argument," and not a "discussion" - HT HC's apparently started the argument with a question, but then continued on and on until I came over.

NEVER give "an explanation" of balls/strikes. EVER!If he continues even the "discussion", never mind an "argument", between innings, simply dump him.The rest of the mess was the PU's fault for not dumping him sooner.

Never, ever. Amen.

JHSump · May 10, 2013

I coached in a league a few years back that got very competitive between coaches. Basically ended up being all about the coaches and not the players. Bunch of grown men with their zippers down and tape measures out! My friend and I decided we had had enough and when we got to the tournament at the end of the year we never left the dugout. Kids made the line ups, coached the bases and even decided who pitched. The kids loved it! Our parents didn't know what to think but after a while they really got into it too. Hell we even won a couple of games like that. Still have parents that bring it up when I see them. I would love to see leagues go to something like this. Kids have to learn the complete game instead of just doing what they are told and it is amazing how fast they pick things up. nothing better than a kid calling time from the bench to go settle down his pitcher (and set up the hidden ball trick)

At the local league level and even the low age travel ball level, most coaches simply do not know what they are doing and how to do it. Furthermore, they hamper the development of most of their players. Here are two examples. (1) Calling pitches from the dugout. At the low levels the pitcher typically has three pitches: straight, straight, and straight. He also has enough control to possibly hit the strike zone, but not the outside corner consistently. So, what's the point of calling pitches? If a pitcher does have control and or more than one pitch, let him and his catcher decide what/where to throw. They will learn much more that way. I NEVER had a coach call pitches when I was a youngin (and I had to walk in the snow to play,barefoot, uphill both ways). Never saw it at any level (through college). (2) Strict verbal control of each runner's every move. Sure the players may not have lots of base running experience at the low level, but there is one physical skill they have down pat: how to run. Why not let them make a few mistakes and learn when to run and when to not run, when to take the extra base, etc. They can respond faster to a passed ball if they make the decision, not waiting on the coach to say "Go! Ok, now it's too late. Just stay here." Coaching on the basepaths is necessary only when the ball is behind the runner. When I coached 10U and 12U teams, I told them outright: "You make the decisions on the bases. Think of it as a game of tag in the backyard." We scored LOTS of runs on our "running prowess." Other teams were at a great disadvantage when playing us. And, my players enjoyed the game more.

JHSump · May 10, 2013

There was an article a few years back about a local league team that was run entirely by some kids the same age at the players. For the whole season, since there were no parent volunteers to coach that team. If I remember correctly, it went very well. Not sure I can find the article, but I'll try.

CricketChapman · May 10, 2013

"My assignor told me before the game that HT HC had already caused problems with two other umpires, seemed to be picking on the younger umpires who usually work these games, and that HT HC called one umpire an "asshole," but quietly enough that the umpire could not hear it. The best part: my assignor's stepson plays on this guy's team".

Very, very disappointed your assignor has not gone to the league on the staff's (yours and others) behalf and told the league to put a lid on this jack wagon or they can search for other umpires. He is basically condoning this behavior with you young umpires to keep the assigning fees rolling or to keep his kid on the team. He should grow a pair and handle this since he definitely knows about it, and silence in this case is just condoning this JW's deportment. I have now lost respect for 2 people in this OP.

To correct two misconceptions: while I am young (24), I am a veteran umpire (10 years). I do not do these 9-10Minors games very often (usually working travel/school games), which is why I had not encountered this HC before. As a couple posters noted, I am sure this guy thought I was just some bumbling newbie who he could take advantage of.

I also serve on the Board of Directors for my league - it's my job to facilitate communications between the league and umpires (among other responsibilities). Thus, I wanted to "investigate" before I discussed this HC with the Director in charge of the age group. Needless to say, all the information in OP has now been shared with that Director.

JHSump · May 10, 2013

Found the article about kids coaching a little league team.

http://www.ocregister.com/news/team-358394-first-christian.html

mbrown2097 · May 10, 2013

(1) Calling pitches from the dugout.

(2) Strict verbal control of each runner's every move.

Disagree with you on #1. Early on, if possible, don't let the kids call the pitches. Instead, teach the strategy off-line, and demo on-line by calling the pitches. As they age, they'll be calling their own games and understand why. If you leave them to call their own games, they'll take much longer to understand good strategy.

Agree on 2, but some kids just can't handle it. Those that can, are a wrecking crew on the bases.

spiritump · May 11, 2013

Pre-Ejection: Top 1, HT HC voiced displeasure with a ball call (B did not swing; he was avoiding an inside pitch - again, these are 9-10 MINORS). HT HC responded sarcastically in the dugout after PU gave a quick and reasonable explanation.
Between innings, coach began an argument with PU over the previous call. HT HC could not understand PU's explanation; PU gave me the "come here" sign, so I intervened and clarified. HT HC displayed little knowledge of OBR, implying at one point that it's a strike "when the bat crosses the plate." Note that this was an "argument," and not a "discussion" - HT HC's apparently started the argument with a question, but then continued on and on until I came over.

NEVER give "an explanation" of balls/strikes. EVER!

If he continues even the "discussion", never mind an "argument", between innings, simply dump him.

The rest of the mess was the PU's fault for not dumping him sooner.

Learned that the semi-hardway the other night. No more Mr Nice Guy.

you learned that they are all RATS

blue23ll · May 11, 2013

(1) Calling pitches from the dugout.

(2) Strict verbal control of each runner's every move.

Disagree with you on #1. Early on, if possible, don't let the kids call the pitches. Instead, teach the strategy off-line, and demo on-line by calling the pitches. As they age, they'll be calling their own games and understand why. If you leave them to call their own games, they'll take much longer to understand good strategy.

Agree on 2, but some kids just can't handle it. Those that can, are a wrecking crew on the bases.

At what level do the coach's stop calling pitches? I see coaches calling pitches up to MLB.

I coached for over 15 years and never called pitches. You first teach your pitchers how to pitch, the physical mechanics of pitching. You talk about strategy, at the youth level this generally means talking about changing the location of the fastball, possibly introducing a change up, until they learn how to throw a breaking ball. They learn the concepts in practice and put them to use in games.

As far as controlling the running game, I usually only told runners when NOT to run. I never wanted to curb aggressiveness in runners. If you felt you could make it, take the chance.

JHSump · May 11, 2013

(1) Calling pitches from the dugout.

(2) Strict verbal control of each runner's every move.

Disagree with you on #1. Early on, if possible, don't let the kids call the pitches. Instead, teach the strategy off-line, and demo on-line by calling the pitches. As they age, they'll be calling their own games and understand why. If you leave them to call their own games, they'll take much longer to understand good strategy.

Agree on 2, but some kids just can't handle it. Those that can, are a wrecking crew on the bases.

At what level do the coach's stop calling pitches? I see coaches calling pitches up to MLB.

I coached for over 15 years and never called pitches. You first teach your pitchers how to pitch, the physical mechanics of pitching. You talk about strategy, at the youth level this generally means talking about changing the location of the fastball, possibly introducing a change up, until they learn how to throw a breaking ball. They learn the concepts in practice and put them to use in games.

As far as controlling the running game, I usually only told runners when NOT to run. I never wanted to curb aggressiveness in runners. If you felt you could make it, take the chance.

What you did was not what the typical coach did, I'll bet. And it is certainly not what the typical coach does now.

dumbdumb · May 12, 2013

Found the article about kids coaching a little league team.

http://www.ocregister.com/news/team-358394-first-christian.html

Nice article.

Now go run up and down the drillfield 50 times then around the duckpond 50 times, then go shake the hand of the 4th winningest D1 BB coach (and College hoops referee)(retired) and have a cold drink. (amazing what one can google).

Problem Coach

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