Fed. obstruction

[Sayhey]

Anxious to hear your viewpoint on this one.

First, let me say that I see no reason to have any differences in Fed. ball rules compared to O.B.R.

except for a strict force play slide rule. Here is the play. R-1 and a base hit to right. Throw and play at third on R-1. R-1 is safe at third base and the throw gets about 8 feet away from F-5. R-1, now R-3, gets up and takes two steps toward home. F-5 knocks R-3 down as he goes after the loose ball. My partner in a 2-man crew immediately signals obstruction. He puts his left arm out parallel to the ground.he works softball as well. Hasn't this mechanic been done away with? I never did it. Thought it looked weird. R-3 simply went back and stood on third and F-5 went over and picked the ball up. My partner did not cleanly award R-3 home. He came down and got together with me but asked no questions. He said," I have to award him home. I signaled obstruction. He was talking himself into making the award. He did not want to award R-3 home but he had too. Fed. rules mandate at least a 1 base award. He awarded the base and the visiting coach was out of the dugout to argue. This coach is old school and was a ball player.

He argued that it was not obstruction and the runner did not deserve an award. Then he hammered my partner for not being committed to the call. The coach was correct and wrong in my opinion. I agree that R-3 did not deserve home.

I disagree that it was not obstruction. It was not entanglement because entanglement has to happen immediately-Jaska/Roder. Time went by between the slide play and the scampering after the loose ball and knocking down R-3.

R-3 was absolutely obstructed and O.B.R. would call this type B obstruction with no play being made on the runner. No M.L.B. umpire or summer league umpire would award home on this scenario. The Fed. rules put us in a position where we had to award home even though nobody at the yard thought R-3 deserved home.

Even the home coach did not agree with the call.

I have never seen this in 20 years. The head coach had a run on the board and a runner sitting in the dugout and he wanted me to overturn my partner's call and put his runner back on third and take a run away from him. He has a keen sense of fairness and he only wanted a run fair and square. No ejection but an unhappy coach.

Some will say that there is no type A and type B obstruction in Fed. Ball, just obstruction. It would be better said that Fed. ball has type A and B at the same time. It's type A in that the obstructed runner gets a minimum of 1 base on any obstruction and type B in that we keep the ball live until continuous action is over or a protected runner is tagged or caught in a rundown. I have no right to rule in any way other than the Fed. rule book dictates. It's their game and their rule book.

I like the F.P.S.R. but I think they have screwed the obstruction rule up. What do you think?

[noumpere]

The defense throws the ball away (yes just by a little bit) then knocks the runner down.  So some penalty seems to be in order here.  I don't really have a problem with the FED ruling on this one.

[maven]

If he wasn't advancing, then he wasn't obstructed. Talk partner off that one, maybe. maven

[Mike Prince]

If you work FED, you work by their rules.  Simple as that.  If the runner didn't get awarded home on your play you would have had OM ready to protest as there was no question that there was obstruction and the rule was not followed if you don't give the runner home.  Sometimes there's no happy ending.

[Sayhey]

Wow, that was a quick response. The runner was absolutely obstructed. He can be obstructed standing still or e maven if there is no contact.

O.B.R. leaves us the liberty to signal obstruction and award no base, or protect the runner back into his backward base, or, call the runner out. In Fed. ball we do not have those options and in this case it was unfortunate that we had zero option.

[Mike Prince]

I don't think you should pursue being your association's rules interpreter     .  Few of us here universally agree with every FED rule, but when you get between the baselines you have to call the game by the ruleset governing the game.  Some rules have room for interpretation and others don't.

[Sayhey]

Go back and read the original post. The offensive coach was on the field asking me to overturn my partner's call. His runner was sitting in the dugout and the run was on the scoreboard. His sense of fair play was violated. He did not want to score a run by what he considered an unfair award. When is the last time you had a coach on the field asking you to take a run away from him. We did enforce the Fed. rule book. No one was happy about it. It is a an O.B.R. rule that has been tweaked by Fed. rule writers for safety. They do not want players injured. They believe that obstruction should be severely punished to influence players to not obstruct. In our particular case they was no chance of injury and there was no safety issue involved and yet the Fed. rule demanded that we award home plate. You probably used to call runners out for missing a base without an appeal. You probably were a Fed. rule guy and called those runners out. I refused to do it and many others acted likewise.

We had a top umpire keep the ball live when a visiting player hit a home run on a balk. The home team coach walked out to home plate and asked why the ball was kept live since it was a high school game and Fed. rules were being used.

My friend's response was this," coach, you go over there and you tell that kid that his home run does not count because your pitcher balked".

The coach slowly turned and walked back to his dugout. Put it on the board. My friend rebelled against the Fed. rule book. I bought him a pitcher of beer. Keep rockin that Fed. rule book super ump

[Mike Prince]

Go back and read the original post. The offensive coach was on the field asking me to overturn my partner's call. His runner was sitting in the dugout and the run was on the scoreboard. His sense of fair play was violated. He did not want to score a run by what he considered an unfair award. When is the last time you had a coach on the field asking you to take a run away from him. We did enforce the Fed. rule book. No one was happy about it. It is a an O.B.R. rule that has been tweaked by Fed. rule writers for safety. They do not want players injured. They believe that obstruction should be severely punished to influence players to not obstruct. In our particular case they was no chance of injury and there was no safety issue involved and yet the Fed. rule demanded that we award home plate. You probably used to call runners out for missing a base without an appeal. You probably were a Fed. rule guy and called those runners out. I refused to do it and many others acted likewise.

We had a top umpire keep the ball live when a visiting player hit a home run on a balk. The home team coach walked out to home plate and asked why the ball was kept live since it was a high school game and Fed. rules were being used.

My friend's response was this," coach, you go over there and you tell that kid that his home run does not count because your pitcher balked".

The coach slowly turned and walked back to his dugout. Put it on the board. My friend rebelled against the Fed. rule book. I bought him a pitcher of beer. Keep rockin that Fed. rule book super ump

 

So I question your motives for taking the FED rule book into your own hands and you resort to personal insults and use another situation as an example of where you (or the "top" umpire, sorry) create a clear protest situation as justification.  Good strategy.

 

If you don't like the FED rules, don't work the games.

[Sayhey]

Keep rockin that Fed. rule book Mike. how many runners did you call out without an actual appeal.

You are probably a jewelry guy too. Get that dangerous jewelry off! There was no protest because the coach was a baseball guy. Knew the game. He realized that my friend was right. Why should a batter be robbed of a home run because the pitcher erred by balking and then was stupid enough to pitch the ball. It is another tweaking of O.B.R. that is unnecessary. We wrote the Feds. about it and their explanation was illogical. Rock on super ump

[Mad Mike]

If R3 had taken two steps towards home plate and then was knocked down, I can certainly see why he returned to third base to avoid being put out because he was obstructed. Due to his advance towards home, when obstructed, this is a clear case where R3 is awarded home plate. It is always difficult to judge intent; however, in this case, with the runner making a positive advance towards home, the call is easier in this scenario.

 

 

 

The defense throws the ball away (yes just by a little bit) then knocks the runner down.  So some penalty seems to be in order here.  I don't really have a problem with the FED ruling on this one.

I also agree with noumpere's thoughts (above). Why wouldn't we penalize the defense for not only making a bad throw, but knocking down the runner? The offense should be rewarded for poor play(s) by the defense.

[Mike Prince]

Keep rockin that Fed. rule book Mike. how many runners did you call out without an actual appeal.

You are probably a jewelry guy too. Get that dangerous jewelry off! There was no protest because the coach was a baseball guy. Knew the game. He realized that my friend was right. Why should a batter be robbed of a home run because the pitcher erred by balking and then was stupid enough to pitch the ball. It is another tweaking of O.B.R. that is unnecessary. We wrote the Feds. about it and their explanation was illogical. Rock on super ump

 

Keep fighting Sayhey, I am sure it will get you somewhere in your umpiring career.  Good luck, I am done so you can act like a complete jackwagon towards someone else.

[scrounge]

Keep rockin that Fed. rule book Mike. how many runners did you call out without an actual appeal.

You are probably a jewelry guy too. Get that dangerous jewelry off! There was no protest because the coach was a baseball guy. Knew the game. He realized that my friend was right. Why should a batter be robbed of a home run because the pitcher erred by balking and then was stupid enough to pitch the ball. It is another tweaking of O.B.R. that is unnecessary. We wrote the Feds. about it and their explanation was illogical. Rock on super ump

 

This is disgraceful, and your resorting to cheap, personal insults only magnifies the fact that you are advocating the wholesale and willful breaking of the rules for that game simply due to your own sensibilities and opinion.

[mstaylor]

The reason Fed has it the way they do is because they want it to be punitive in all cases. This is a situation where that kicks in. Of the obstruction had caused him to be out, would you have a problem awarding home? By the way,I have called runners out when there were no appeals. And I enforce jewelry rules. That is a safety rule, so it gets enforced. Sounds like maybe you need to rethink working Fed. Not because you aren't good enough, just too much you don't agree with.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

[zm1283]

I do not agree with many of the FED rules, including OBS, balks, etc.  That doesn't mean I won't enforce them though.  I have the choice not to work those games if I don't want to follow their rules.  If a coach has a problem with one of these rule differences, he can work to get it changed, since coaches do make up at least a good part of the rules committee after all.  

 

If I'm the coach and my pitcher balked but the umpires allowed the HR, there would be a protest and/or I would be getting run depending on what happened.  

[cyclonehokiece]

This may be a case where you enforce the rule and tell the coach "Don't like it, write to __________" where blank is where the headquarters of your high school governing body is.

 

As I have told coaches on rules that seem bad "I don't write them, I just enforce them"

[BRUMP]

we are cops not lawmakers we dont get paid to write we get paid to enforce...and as far as your comment regarding the balk and conversation with the coach if i was that coach i would have no problem telling that kid to get back in the box and that his homerun didnt count and the fact that ur friend completely diregarded the rule in order to appease a team (something we criticize TDs and state officials of doing) is absoleutly ridiculous

[tldavis19]

The rules are in place for a reason. Our job is to enforce them to the best of our ability, not to pick and choose what we do and don't like. That's dirty officiating and WILL get you in deep doo-doo.

 

I've got obstruction, score the run.

Put the kid back in the box after the balk. Play ball.

[NFUA_44]

Keep rockin that Fed. rule book Mike. how many runners did you call out without an actual appeal.

You are probably a jewelry guy too. Get that dangerous jewelry off! There was no protest because the coach was a baseball guy. Knew the game. He realized that my friend was right. Why should a batter be robbed of a home run because the pitcher erred by balking and then was stupid enough to pitch the ball. It is another tweaking of O.B.R. that is unnecessary. We wrote the Feds. about it and their explanation was illogical. Rock on super ump

Newsflash

OBR had balks as a dead ball originally.

If you can't make your point without resorting to ambiguous personal attacks on people then your no better than a jackwagon coach.  Make your case and be done with it, stop being a whiney b!tch.

 

You don't like the ruleset, find other games. 

[Sayhey]

I just presented an unusual situation where the coach who benefited from a SH*#ty little Fed. rule wanted his runner placed back on third and his run taken off the board. That's worthy of a discussion. It was Boston Mike who fired the first volley of smart ass remarks. Check the thread and kiss my ass

[clawdad]

First you say this:

 I have no right to rule in any way other than the Fed. rule book dictates. It's their game and their rule book.
 

 

Then you say this:

 You probably used to call runners out for missing a base without an appeal. You probably were a Fed. rule guy and called those runners out. I refused to do it and many others acted likewise.
 

Sayhey, you contradict yourself.

 

Also, your last comment

 

"Check the thread and kiss my ass"
 

was unnecessary, and not very classy.

 

 

Like them or not, the rules that govern the particualr level of baseball we officiate need to be enforced. 

 

Can we stop the personal attacks and move on.  The bickering posts like this are one of the reasons I only visit other sites on an occasional basis.  The atmosphere here was positive and helpful, which is why I like it.  But it has started to go downhill a bit recently.

[Thunderheads]

I just presented an unusual situation where the coach who benefited from a SH*#ty little Fed. rule wanted his runner placed back on third and his run taken off the board. That's worthy of a discussion. It was Boston Mike who fired the first volley of smart ass remarks. Check the thread and kiss my ass

OK, YOU'RE DONE!  

 

BUH-BYE!