MyReferee Obstruction Question

[grayhawk]

Got this off the MyReferee tab on Arbiter:

 

R1, R3, no outs. R1 is stealing and gets caught in a rundown and is obstructed. R3 is more than halfway toward the plate. After obstruction has been called on F4, R3 is thrown out at the plate.

a. The ball is immediately dead.
b. The out on R3 stands.
c. R3 is awarded home.
d. R3 is returned to third.
e. R1 is awarded first.
f. R1 is awarded second.

You may choose multiple answers and please answer for OBR, Fed and NCAA.

[BRUMP]

obr I have a c and f. a because its type a OBS, c because its up to the umpires judgement whether R3 would have scored and id score him if theres any doubt because the defense forfeits any benefit of the doubt after an OBS, and f because with type a obs the obstructed runner must advance at least one base after the last base he legally touched

[JaxRolo]

I have b and f

[grayhawk]

I have b and f

For Fed I assume?

[JaxRolo]

I have b and f For Fed I assume?

yes

[jjskitours]

For OBR, I might have a hard time justifying R3 scores had it not been for the obstruction. After all he was thrown out. I might be inclined to put him back on 3rd. Of course it is strictly umpire's judgement and since it is an immediate dead ball, R3 may have slowed up (HTBT).

[mstaylor]

Fed, b and f. OBR, a,f and R3 is either going to score or return to third, whichever the umpire judges. NCAA, I am not sure. They have changed several times over the last few years so I will not answer. 

[Replacematt]

NCAA is same as OBR.

[Jocko]

Fed Result = DDB. R2, 1 down

OBR = Dead ball. If I think he would have scored sans the OBS, score it. If not, he goes back. R1 gets 2B, because the last legally occupied base was 1B, whic protects him to the next base.

[Richvee]

I don't think there's enough info in the question to determine this to be type A OBS.  What if F2 throws down to F4, R1 stops, retreats towards 1st. F4 is running R1 back to 1st, flips the ball to F3. R1 then turns back towards 2nd and F4 obstructs him as F3 is throwing home to get R3. Wouldn't this be type B? R3 out R1 awarded 2nd?

[guitarplaya2007]

Not 100% in fed but obr since the play sounds like the obstruction occurs while the runner is in a run down that would mean that this is an immediate dead ball and R1 is awarded 2nd base and R3 scoring or back to third, if you think he could've scored ahd the obstruction not occurred (unlikely in this situation) then you score him, if you don't feel he would've reached home safely then he goes back to 3rd.

[johnnyg08]

Not 100% in fed but obr since the play sounds like the obstruction occurs while the runner is in a run down that would mean that this is an immediate dead ball and R1 is awarded 2nd base and R3 scoring or back to third, if you think he could've scored ahd the obstruction not occurred (unlikely in this situation) then you score him, if you don't feel he would've reached home safely then he goes back to 3rd.

 

 

Agree with this.

[grayhawk]

The main reason I posted this play was because the MyReferee answer for OBR & NCAA was "a, c, f" with no mention of umpire judgment for awarding home to R3. I'm fine with awarding R3 home, but I think they should mention that c or d are both possibilities, especially considering he was thrown out at home.

[Richvee]

The main reason I posted this play was because the MyReferee answer for OBR & NCAA was "a, c, f" with no mention of umpire judgment for awarding home to R3. I'm fine with awarding R3 home, but I think they should mention that c or d are both possibilities, especially considering he was thrown out at home.

 

 

I received an e-mail from MyReferee today. While they acknowledge scoring R3 or putting him back to 3rd is judgement, they say the fact that R3 is more than 1/2 way home when the OBS occurs plays into the decision.... 

 

 

"In NFHS, the ball is always delayed-dead on obstruction, so the out clearly stands on R3 at the plate.

 

In NCAA and pro, it is inferred that the obstruction is Type A since the question states "R1 is stealing and gets caught in a rundown and is obstructed." It would be difficult to have R1 be in a rundown, get obstructed and have it be the type of obstruction in which there is no play being made on the runner.

 

Since the ball is immediately dead, it's up to the crew to place runners. R1 would be awarded second, while the offense would get the benefit of the doubt. Since the question states "R3 is more than halfway toward the plate," the correct ruling would be to award R3 home.

 

We hope this clears up any confusion.

[grayhawk]

Rich, I got the same email.  My responses are below.

 

> We appreciate your comments about question number 4 on the current baseball
> quiz on MyReferee. Our baseball editor has responded to your comments.
>
> In NFHS, the ball is always delayed-dead on obstruction, so the out clearly
> stands on R3 at the plate.

I agree 100% - easy call for Fed.

>
> In NCAA and pro, it is inferred that the obstruction is Type A since the
> question states "R1 is stealing and gets caught in a rundown and is
> obstructed." It would be difficult to have R1 be in a rundown, get
> obstructed and have it be the type of obstruction in which there is no play
> being made on the runner.

I agree - it would have to be a very strange sequence of events for obstruction
during a rundown to be ruled type B.

>
> Since the ball is immediately dead, it's up to the crew to place runners. R1
> would be awarded second, while the offense would get the benefit of the
> doubt. Since the question states "R3 is more than halfway toward the plate,"
> the correct ruling would be to award R3 home.

R1 to second (at a minimum) is mandated by Type A obstruction.  Agree there. 
However, "R3 is more than halfway toward the plate" is irrelevant - there is
nothing in OBR about that.  The rule states "all runners shall advance, without
liability to be put out, to the bases they would have reached, in the umpire’s
judgment, if there had been no obstruction."  I have no problem awarding R3 home
(giving the offense the benefit of the doubt is good umpiring in this
situation).  But to flatly state that R3 should be awarded home because he was
more than halfway is incorrect.  Let's keep in mind that R3 was thrown out at
home (I know that was inlcluded to illustrate that his out would stand in Fed),
so he wouldn't have necessarily reached home without the obstuction.
 

[Richvee]

For what it's worth, I did learn something from this. I didn't realize OBS in a rundown is DB in OBR. Thought it was the same as FED. 

[Richvee]

  What if F2 throws down to F4, R1 stops, retreats towards 1st. F4 is running R1 back to 1st, flips the ball to F3. R3 breaks for home.  R1 then turns back towards 2nd and F4 obstructs him as F3 is throwing home to get R3. Wouldn't this be type B? R3 out R1 awarded 2nd?

 

Sorry if I'm   . I'm a wrong here? If the play happened exactly as I have stated above, is this still a DB in OBR? 

[BRUMP]

  What if F2 throws down to F4, R1 stops, retreats towards 1st. F4 is running R1 back to 1st, flips the ball to F3. R3 breaks for home.  R1 then turns back towards 2nd and F4 obstructs him as F3 is throwing home to get R3. Wouldn't this be type B? R3 out R1 awarded 2nd?

 

Sorry if I'm   . I'm a wrong here? If the play happened exactly as I have stated above, is this still a DB in OBR? 

 

 

 

no it wouldnt be. it would be type b in obr because there is no play being made on the obstructed runner which results in a ddb. R1 would be awarded the base he would have reached (in the umpires judgement) sans the OBS. because the ball is still live the out on R3 stands

[Richvee]

Thanks. That's how I pictured this play from the beginning, and why I was surprised to see it being called Type A. 

[Replacematt]

Per MLBUM, a rundown is always type A. So the answer would hinge on "When does a rundown end?"

[NavyUmp]

Don't over complicate it.  If he is in a rundown its type A.  And I think we all know when a runner is in a rundown.

[guyinaredhat]

The rundown occurs when the defense is making a play on the runner.  The rundown ends as soon as the defense stops to do something else ( like throw home to retire r 3 .)

 

I could see it being called type a and b.  I could see the runner being obstructed on the back end while the fielder in front of him is firing the ball home. Then play goes on.  But....

 

obviously if the defense is making a play on the runnner and he's obstructed then I call " Time thats obstruction and award bases."

[UMP45]

The rundown occurs when the defense is making a play on the runner.  The rundown ends as soon as the defense stops to do something else ( like throw home to retire r 3 .)

 

I could see it being called type a and b.  I could see the runner being obstructed on the back end while the fielder in front of him is firing the ball home. Then play goes on.  But....

 

obviously if the defense is making a play on the runnner and he's obstructed then I call " Time thats interference, and award bases."

Interference?

[guyinaredhat]

don't know what you're talking bout?