confusing base awards...

[Ring 'em Up]

as most of know i'm going through the 2012 nfhs manual in preperation for the upcoming season. (yes i know i'll need the 2013 manual). good think i'm starting early..! some of the case studies for the base running awards are

confusing..

hopefully i'll be able to remember 'em in the heat of the moment.

Back to Reading..!

ron-

[Ring 'em Up]

well.. i see that i posted this in the wrong thread.. and i was going to delete it and repost this into the 'free for all' thread, but there is no 'delete' button by the 'quote & multiquote' buttons. am i missing them ?

ron-

[mstaylor]

There you go, all moved.

[Umpire in Chief]

I like to tell people one of the best ways to start is by memorizing the base awards and the dead ball/delayed dead ball table.

[johnnyg08]

One way to remember base awards is to remember Time of Pitch (TOP), or Time of Throw (TOT).

Then learn the definition of a "Play."

Once you get the terminology down, the base awards are easy. Well, easier anyway.

[noumpere]

Some the the awards table might even be wrong - at least at one time that was true, I haven't checked the table in a while.

[Ump29]

If you are just talking of overthrows this may help (something I drew up for teaching purposes) (based on OBR)

OVERTHROWS and AWARDING BASES

One base from time of pitch - If by a throw by the pitcher while on the rubber the ball goes out of play. Rule 7.05 (h)

Two bases from time of pitch - If by a throw by an infielder that is the first play. Rule 7.05 (g)

Two bases from time of throw - If by a throw in all other cases. Rule 7.05 (g)

Remember it is the plate umpires job to award all bases on overthrows.

[noumpere]

IRemember it is the plate umpires job to award all bases on overthrows.

Not really true at least in any places Ive been

[NFUA_44]

Remember it is the plate umpires job to award all bases on overthrows.

Awards should be handled by the Umpire who was responsible for the OOP call, which could be either umpire.

Consider this: R1 is at 2nd, chopper to F6 who takes the throw over to F3, ball is overthrown going into 1st, PU has responsibility to catch the touch at 3rd, and BU has the play at 1st, including the overthrow. BU would now kill the ball and make the appropriate award(s)

[Minnz]

Another easy guide that can help mostly (not always of course) "1 from the rubber; 2 from the field."

[Jocko]

I'm gonna need an example of what's considered a confusing base award

[noumpere]

Another easy guide that can help mostly (not always of course) "1 from the mound; 2 from the field."

that should be one from the rubber ...

[Minnz]

Another easy guide that can help mostly (not always of course) "1 from the mound; 2 from the field."

that should be one from the rubber ...

Good catch, I edited.

[Ring 'em Up]

Another easy guide that can help mostly (not always of course) "1 from the rubber; 2 from the field."

R1 at plate, shortline drive to L-center.. F8 sprints to intercept gets the ball on one-bounce and overthrows into 1st base dugout trying to get the out at first. Under this condition, R1 would get one base (not 2), correct?

ron-

[Ring 'em Up]

by the way.. i wanted to thank all of you for your help.. and not flaming me for my amaturish questions.

ron-

[JaxRolo]

Another easy guide that can help mostly (not always of course) "1 from the rubber; 2 from the field."

R1 at plate, shortline drive to L-center.. F8 sprints to intercept gets the ball on one-bounce and overthrows into 1st base dugout trying to get the out at first. Under this condition, R1 would get one base (not 2), correct?

ron-

Who's on first?

Sent from my iPhone using

Tapatalk

[Ring 'em Up]

there was no runner on 1b., if throw was correct batter would have been out, but since the ball was overthrown it went into the 1b dugout.

i guess what i'm asking, is would the batter be given an award of one base, placing him on 2b. OR an award of 2 bases, placing him on 3b.

ron-

[yawetag]

there was no runner on 1b., if throw was correct batter would have been out, but since the ball was overthrown it went into the 1b dugout.

i guess what i'm asking, is would the batter be given an award of one base, placing him on 2b. OR an award of 2 bases, placing him on 3b.

ron-

Because it's a throw from the outfield, the award is two bases at the time of the throw by the outfielder. Therefore, if BR (we use BR, or batter-runner, to describe the guy that hits the ball and runs) would have been out by the throw, it's very likely he hasn't touched 1B yet, so he's getting 2B.

[mstaylor]

These a are good for the basics but there is way more to awards. Lodged balls in gloves, deflected balls, detached equipment. Fed can be weird. Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

[noumpere]

there was no runner on 1b., if throw was correct batter would have been out, but since the ball was overthrown it went into the 1b dugout.

i guess what i'm asking, is would the batter be given an award of one base, placing him on 2b. OR an award of 2 bases, placing him on 3b.

ron-

 

2 bases, so place him on second.  awards are made from the time the throw leaves the fielders hand not from the time the ball enters dead ball territory.  it sounds like your misunderstanding is more than the table (and I dont mean that to be a flame)

[mstaylor]

A throw to first to retire the BR that goes in DB is two bases from TOP(Time of pitch). The only time the TOT comes into play in this sitch is if the BR has reached first before the ball is released. This is a highly unlikely play. 

[Ump29]

A throw to first to retire the BR that goes in DB is two bases from TOP(Time of pitch). The only time the TOT comes into play in this sitch is if the BR has reached first before the ball is released. This is a highly unlikely play. 

If the throw is by the outfielder, the award is 2 bases from time of throw.

[mstaylor]

True and more likely than my exception

[amarillo]

Where I used to get confused is from what position do I add the two bases.. Ie he hasn't reached first yet so his two bases are first and second. Or he has reached first and they throw behind him now his two bases are second and third... Same scenario a throw from an outfielder in an attempt to retire a runner at first base

[yawetag]

Where I used to get confused is from what position do I add the two bases.. Ie he hasn't reached first yet so his two bases are first and second. Or he has reached first and they throw behind him now his two bases are second and third... Same scenario a throw from an outfielder in an attempt to retire a runner at first base

 

It depends on the situation.

 

Any throw from an outfielderthat goes OOP is a 2-base award from the last legally-acquired base the runner or batter-runner (BR) had at the time of throw. So, if the BR had not yet reached 1B when the throw was made, then he would be awarded 2B.

 

The infield is a bit different. In general, the first throw by an infielder that goes out of play would be two bases from the time of pitch. Therefore, a stealing runner on 1B (R1) that reached 2B before the SS (F6) threw a ball OOP would only be awarded 3B, since that would be two bases from the pitch he occupied at the time of the pitch. There is an exception to this rule: if all the runners AND the batter-runner has reached their advancing base, then the award would be two bases from the time of throw. This seems a bit confusing and the only time you'll probably see it is if a fielder bobbles a ball and throws to 1B after the BR has touched the base -- even then, it's very rare.

 

The last situation is an infielder throwing a ball OOP on a second throw or play. In these situations, it's two bases from the time of throw. A play can be a throw to another base or a tag attempt on an advancing runner. These usually happen during a double-play attempt, when the defense is throwing for the second out.

 

So, three scenarios. In all three, we've got R1 and R2 with one out.

 

Scenario 1: BR hits a grounder to F9. F9 attempts to throw out BR at first base, but the throw goes out of play. At the time of the throw, (a) R1 has not touched 2B, or (b) R1 has touched 2B. Place the runners.

 

So, as I said, any throw from an outfielder is two bases at TOT (time of throw). So, in (a) R2 is awarded home, R1 is awarded 3B (he hadn't touched 2B at TOT, so it's two bases from 1B), BR is awarded 2B. In (b) R2 is awarded home, R1 is awarded home (he had touched 2B at TOT), BR is awarded 2B.

 

Scenario 2: BR hits a grounder to F6. F6 attempts to throw out BR at first base, but the throw goes out of play. Place the runners.

 

This is a first play by the defense, so it's two bases from TOP (time of pitch). So, R2 is awarded home, R1 is awarded 3B, and BR is awarded 2B.

 

Scenario 3: BR hits a grounder to F6. F6 tags (or attempts to tag) R2 heading to 3B, then attempts to throw out BR at first base, but the throw goes out of play. At the time of the throw, (a) R1 had touched 2B, or (b) R1 had not touched 2B. Place the runners.

 

This is a second (or subsequent) play by the defense, so it's two bases from TOT. So, in (a) R2 is awarded home (if he wasn't tagged out), R1 is awarded home (he had touched 2B at TOT), and BR is awarded 2B. In (b) R2 is awarded home (if he wasn't tagged out), R1 is awarded 3B (he hadn't touched 2B at TOT), and BR is awarded 2B.

 

In simple terms, a ball thrown out of play by a fielder is a two-base award. The only time you award from time of pitch is if it's the first throw by an infielder. In all other cases, it's two bases from the time of the throw.