Grid Method

[carolinablue]

Ok, I'm going to take us far away from baseball for a minute. Do we have any teachers or math majors on here, because my 9YO. son brought something home today that I just can't comprehend the logic to. It's called the grid method of multiplication. It's for I guess multiplying numbers of 2 didgits or more. Anyone heard of it or use it ? To me it is totally crazy because it adds two steps of addition that are not in the traditional method. More steps equals more time and more oppurtunity to screw up IMO. I just don't see any advantage to it, maybe someone can enlighten me to what I am missing.

I tried to show an example but it didn't come out right. Sorry.

Edited November 28, 2012 by carolinablue

[BRUMP]

I agree its a dumbass method. http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_method_multiplication

[Umpire in Chief]

I'm in the same boat as you. I remember having to learn "Number Families" "Point Methods" and some other things. They have changed the way kids learn math. I'm fighting with my 8y/o son on multiplication tables. I'm telling him its just a matter of memorizing the times table, but they've got a new and "better" way.

[mstaylor]

I must of missed this when my sons went through school. It is a completely stupid method. The only use I can see is to show relationships but not as a method to the answer. I pride myself in doing multiplication in my head. The Wiki article says it makes it so place values are less important using this method. Place values are the basis of math. This is the problem with schools today, they are so intent on coming up with innovations they forget to teach the damn subject.

I recently helped a college student with her homework. She is an elementary ed major and I did not understand why she was even trying to learn the process they were teaching. They were trying to use veen diagrams to do math. They are a fine tool for certain things but in lieu of actual match isn't it. Teach his multiplication tables, teach him how to group tens in column addition and then teach short cuts. Multiplication by 11, 11X13=143, tell him to separate the 13 and make it the first and last digit, then add the two digits to get the middle. Anything divisible by 9 adds to nine. 9x9x9x9x9=6561....6561=11+7=18....1+8=9 Simple tricks to test mechanics.

[mstaylor]

My oldest son just got up for work and I asked him if he had learned the grid method. He said yes and that I had told him then it was stupid. I really don't remember but at least I am consistent. I asked him if he had ever used it since, no. Had he ever used it as a back-up when confused, no. This supposedly the reason for teaching it, to serve as a fallback, all I see it as is a time wasting procedure to teach and to use.

[UMP45]

My wife is a math coach for grades K-8. I'll ask her opinion.

[mstaylor]

My wife is a math coach for grades K-8. I'll ask her opinion.

It will be interesting, as a consumer, it sucks.

I do remember going to school and dressing the principal down for the new state testing. They sent a 40 page booklet home to show what the new testing was about. They gave question examples, which I did and got correct. The problem was it then asked for a BCR to explain how I did it. First, the term BCR(brief constructed response) makes me nuts. It's a flipping sentence, ask for a sentence. Second there is no need in elementary math to explain an answer. It is either right or wrong, if you get it right, you understand the process, if it's wrong then likely you don't. Third if you want to test kids, teach them to do the functions and then test them.

[th3]

i use a calculator

[johnnyg08]

I actually like this method.

It helps kids with number sense.

While it is a paradigm shift for many of us, this is how math is taught in areas of the world that are supposedly "ahead" of us in math.

When you ask a child what "15" means, they really can't tell you.

Under this method they can tell you that it is a 10 and 5 ones.

I don't expect to change your mind, but there is research that supports this idea and in the end it does help kids with higher level math.

I know many of you on here are, and always will be better than me at math...but the best thing you can do for your child is to see if they can teach you how to do it, versus telling them how dumb you think it is...or try to learn it on your own which is possible, our kids need to be able to learn new things in life...after all, we need thinkers and innovators to take care of us.

In fact, if you watch those "human calculators" this is the exact method they use in order to do math quickly.

I think you'll also hear it called the lattice method.

Here's one article:

http://dro.dur.ac.uk/4974/1/4974.pdf

Thanks for your support.

[carolinablue]

I sat down with my son today and we did each math problem he had both ways. I want him to at least know how to do each way. Now, I find that the grid method is not very hard if you are able to add fairly simple addends in your head. If you can't do that it is totally stupid because it adds more steps and will take way more time and even though it's no harder it's definately not easier and I really can't see any advantage to it. I'm just an old fart and can't see what's wrong with the old way. I could see it if it really was a clearly better way but it's not. it seems an epidemic anymore that somebody wants to change something and make it easier when really all they are doing is screwing it up.

[mstaylor]

If it made it easier or faster, I'm all for it. It doesn't so it takes time away from reps doing the tried and true method. Adding the stupid BSRs slows it down even more. When they taught basics, and mastery of skills we led the world. Now we have reinvented the wheel, teach all these new age methods and then rush kids through the system. When my boys came through they stopped teaching the times table at 5x5 and left it to the kids to learn the rest. My boys hated me for it but they knew at least 12x12.

I have kids graduating HS and can not read a rule or tape measure. They don't know how many representatives are in the house and Senate. They don't know how many Justices there are. They spend their time in school being taught things to pass a test the state says they have to pass but they don't learn how to do math or the importance of science, or the history of our country. Not a knock on the teachers, it's a knock on the system.

[Birdieseeker]

Mstaylor, you got me thinking. When we were taught multiplication tables, why did it stop at 12? Damn it's going to be a long off season

[johnnyg08]

If it made it easier or faster, I'm all for it. It doesn't so it takes time away from reps doing the tried and true method. Adding the stupid BSRs slows it down even more. When they taught basics, and mastery of skills we led the world. Now we have reinvented the wheel, teach all these new age methods and then rush kids through the system. When my boys came through they stopped teaching the times table at 5x5 and left it to the kids to learn the rest. My boys hated me for it but they knew at least 12x12.

I have kids graduating HS and can not read a rule or tape measure. They don't know how many representatives are in the house and Senate. They don't know how many Justices there are. They spend their time in school being taught things to pass a test the state says they have to pass but they don't learn how to do math or the importance of science, or the history of our country. Not a knock on the teachers, it's a knock on the system.

It takes longer now because it is new. With practice you and your child will be able to do complex multiplication in their head while you're still trying to carry the 1.

To each their own, but I'm just saying

[carolinablue]

I have kids graduating HS and can not read a rule or tape measure. They don't know how many representatives are in the house and Senate. They don't know how many Justices there are. They spend their time in school being taught things to pass a test the state says they have to pass but they don't learn how to do math or the importance of science, or the history of our country. Not a knock on the teachers, it's a knock on the system.

I also have a 20YO son in college. He was a straight A student in HS. and graduated with a full academic ride to UNCW. He had a Spanish class each year from the 6th grade until graduation but we can go to a Mexican joint to eat and I will ask him what the waiter just said and this is what I get from my son, . I think I know more Spanish than he does. WTF .

[johnnyg08]

I have kids graduating HS and can not read a rule or tape measure. They don't know how many representatives are in the house and Senate. They don't know how many Justices there are. They spend their time in school being taught things to pass a test the state says they have to pass but they don't learn how to do math or the importance of science, or the history of our country. Not a knock on the teachers, it's a knock on the system.

I also have a 20YO son in college. He was a straight A student in HS. and graduated with a full academic ride to UNCW. He had a Spanish class each year from the 6th grade until graduation but we can go to a Mexican joint to eat and I will ask him what the waiter just said and this is what I get from my son, . I think I know more Spanish than he does. WTF .

use it or lose it.

[Umpire in Chief]

Speaking of Spanish, in my county middle schoolers take 2 "electives" per semester. They get to make a request for 1 combined for both semesters but are not guaranteed to get it, even stranger is the list they get to select from are not all of the elective options. The school assigns the others. My daughter requested chorus for her 1 and will get it next semester, but she was assigned Spanish as one of her electives this semester. This is our first child in middle school so this is all new to us. My wife and I have been impressed so far and my daughter is doing well and enjoying it. But I just found it odd that you are assigned electives like this. Some kids (and I would have been in this category) would have had zero interest in a foreign language and I see that as a potential issue with behavior and end up being a distraction (Like I would have been).

I remember in JR High (before it was called middle school) my electives were wood shop for all 3 years, computer labs for 2 years and electronics shop the one and only year it was offered in JR High. I also took electronics shop as a Jr in HS, all went well until Sundevil#71 put a 110 Ω resistor into the 120v wall outlet (NOT THE SURGE PROTECTED WORK STATION) and a fire ball shot across the room and blew all the electricity for 3 hallways. It was awesome we didn't find any remnants of the resistor anywhere in the room. I was initially believed to be a guilty party and received detention to help clean the electronics lab, but amazingly and probably for the first and only time in my juvenile delinquent history I wasn't guilty of something I was accused of, but my past history did make me a very likely suspect especially being that he and I were together - a well known recipe for trouble. I did receive extra credit for serving in detention after he said it was just him - not that I cared if he did or didn't. We were also in trigonometry class together, just like elementary school we got separated and sat as far apart in the room from each other as was possible. While we were both academically "gifted" we both also magnets for trouble. One time in the assistant principal's office together we got the lecture along the lines of, 'You're both student athletes, both academically advanced and come from good families. I cannot figure out why I need to spend so much time with the two of you and the trouble and disruption you two cause.' At the time I thought this was more along the lines of him giving us a badge of honor instead of scorning us.

And since I'm going down memory lane thinking about trig class all of the sudden remembered this story. I was having a bad day, morning car troubles, in my second period I had done my work in that class and I was working with a girl who was helping me on my trig. There was just something I wasn't getting. She helped me correct my work part of the way and she agreed to help me over lunch too. Just before that class ended the wrestling coach came to my room to tell me that the starter in the 125 weight class was sick and didn't come to school and I could have the start (I was 2nd string 130) if I could make weight - not thinking I'd start I had a normal dinner the night before and when I went to the workout room I was 132. So I was "allowed" to ditch all the rest of my classes except for trig. That teacher didn't give special treatment to athletes. I went to trig a sweaty mess wearing 2 of those plastic sauna suits, 2 layers of regular sweats an jacket and a winter beanie. The teacher made me take off the beanie and wouldn't let me bring my spit bottle in the class. I remember I just spat into the sleeve of my jacket. It had to be just for spite because I almost never got called to put my work on the board, the teacher knew I was struggling in this section, and I looked like the Michelin man. Not only that but the problem I was assigned to put my work on the board was the toughest one and because I didn't go to lunch I never got help fixing. When she told me the problem she I had to do I mumbled "oh, sh!t" a little too loud. I had done the problem but knew it was wrong. Luckily the girl who was helping me sat beside me and came to my rescue. She slid me her paper to put on the board. I honestly didn't care that I knew my work was wrong (it often was), but I was angry because I felt it was not random and designed to humiliate me and the girl told me she felt the same way. I never felt so grateful.

[carolinablue]

Since were telling school stories, I was in band in HS ( played french horn= nerd instrument I know, but I really wasn't ) and the director was straight out of the 60s. We used to laugh because we would be playing some classical piece and he would tell us to keep playing and then go into his office for a couple of minutes. When he came out his eyes would be squinted and he would be coughing and give us some rock and roll music or something more upbeat to play. I wonder what he was doing in his office?

He drove a very small yellow convertible, I believe it was called a Sunbeam. We used to get four of us and pick the whole car up and set it on the curb. He would see it and then start cussing but would eventually laugh with us. Great teacher.

[JaxRolo]

Since were telling school stories, I was in band in HS ( played french horn= nerd instrument I know, but I really wasn't )

Talk about nerds. I was in the Orchestra and played the violin. :shakehead:

[yawetag]

Since were telling school stories, I was in band in HS ( played french horn= nerd instrument I know, but I really wasn't )

Talk about nerds. I was in the Orchestra and played the violin.

Clarinet here!

[JaxRolo]

Since were telling school stories, I was in band in HS ( played french horn= nerd instrument I know, but I really wasn't )

Talk about nerds. I was in the Orchestra and played the violin.

Clarinet here!

Ok you have me beat! lol

[carolinablue]

Damn, Nerd alert. At least a french horn is made of brass. :P

[mstaylor]

I was a trumpet player but played anything with valves, french horn, baritone and others. My trig teacher hated me because I would go to her class, sit center row, first seat and go to sleep. I was getting A's and sleeping through her class, drove her nuts.

[JonnyCat]

I recently went with my son to his 10th grade Algebra-2 class. It was bring a parent to school day and I had time to attend a couple of classes with him. In his math class we played algebra Jeopardy. They were doing the grid or box method for many of the equations and I was completely lost. Now it's been a few years since I stepped into a math class, but I was always good at math in High School and College, I even managed to pass 1st semester Calculus in college. Of course it took me 3 tries, and needless to say after that, I changed my major. I was looking forward to visiting his math class in hopes that I could dazzle my son with all of that silly knowledge I have. My son said I should stick to writing essays.

We did algebra equations much differently back in the day. I don't know if the grid method is better or not, but my head was spinning. I wasn't able to answer one question correctly in Jeopardy. Luckily we were in teams and our side managed to win, but not with my help.

[semper_fi_72]

We no longer have the problem of how or what is taught in the school system

We started Home Schooling our 2nd and 4th Grader this year.

I have a very strong dislike for our school system here in California and believe they are failing our children.

The best part is now when I or the wife asks what did you learn today, we know exactly what was taught

There is also no better way to start the day then to have one daughter lead you in the Pledge of Allegiance each morning and then one of us saying a prayer before we start our lessons.

Keeps us busy but it is so rewarding.

[mstaylor]

I recently went with my son to his 10th grade Algebra-2 class. It was bring a parent to school day and I had time to attend a couple of classes with him. In his math class we played algebra Jeopardy. They were doing the grid or box method for many of the equations and I was completely lost. Now it's been a few years since I stepped into a math class, but I was always good at math in High School and College, I even managed to pass 1st semester Calculus in college. Of course it took me 3 tries, and needless to say after that, I changed my major. I was looking forward to visiting his math class in hopes that I could dazzle my son with all of that silly knowledge I have. My son said I should stick to writing essays.

We did algebra equations much differently back in the day. I don't know if the grid method is better or not, but my head was spinning. I wasn't able to answer one question correctly in Jeopardy. Luckily we were in teams and our side managed to win, but not with my help.

I find it very disturbing that kids in Algebra II is using the grid method to find answers. To me, at that level you should be able to do it conventionally or be using a calculator.