Reversed call after injured player

[Pops]

I wish I had a video to post of this play, but instead you’ll have to visualize it based on my description.

HS game, and I am PU. R2, 1 out. F2 receives a pitch and attempts to pick off R2 who wandered too far off second. My partner is in C and watches as R2 begins his dive back into the base. When R2 has just launched his dive, the thrown ball hits him in the face and he goes down about 1foot short of second but within easy reach of the base. He went down immediately and just landed in a lump. R2 is still stunned as F6 picked up the ball and tagged him a few seconds later.

My partner delays his call a few seconds trying to determine what has happened to the runner but finally calls him out. By this time the OC comes out to check on R2 who is still lying there. R2 eventually gets up and starts back to the bench.

Now while this is all going on, I approached second base and asked my partner what he saw and he tells me what I stated above. We decided to apply 5-2-1-d and 5-2-1-d-1 and give R2 second base.

Did we misapply the rule? We knew R2 would have been safe if he wasn’t temporarily incapacitated.

[UmpJM]

Pops,

As described, sounds like he was out to me.

Tough situation.

JM

[Kevin Finnerty]

Sorry, but he's out.

[cyclonehokiece]

HTBT, but I have an out.

[mstaylor]

5-2-1d The part after the comma is the part that makes him out. It didn't sound like further action would place in further harm so 5-2-1d1 does not apply.

[jkumpire]

Yes, he probably should be out, but you responded to the higher calling of an official, the safety of the player. Good job.

[Pops]

So if I understand this correctly, if a player is injured during a live ball, he can be put out without exception and we can not do anything to change the outcome of the play. In that case, we blew the call.

That brings up another question...is it appropriate to notify the coaches to say we were wrong in that decision (I feel like I should apologize...I don't usually make those kind of calls). I don't want them to move forward in their seasons thinking the ruling was correct.

[mstaylor]

You can kill it if you feel by leaving it live it could present greater danger to the player. In this case that isn't true so leave it live. As far as talking to the manager. That depends on your relationship with them. Some you can do that with and others you can't.

[UmpJM]

jk,

Yes, he probably should be out, but you responded to the higher calling of an official, the safety of the player. Good job.

Gotta' disagree. Calling the player "safe" rather than "out" has absolutely no bearing on anyone's safety.

JM

[semper_fi_72]

I got a OUT.

As far as discussing it with the Manager.

No

You don't have to admit your mistakes from a previous game to a Manager or a Coach.

Now that you know what possible mistake you made, learn from it and move on.

That same mistake will not happen again in the future.

[mstaylor]

I tend to agree with Semper, I kicked a defensive MC enforcement that should have ended a game. Instead it extended the game and the team that would have won, lost and was out of the play-offs. I never explained my mistake to the coach, I did with my umpires.

[Mike Prince]

I agree with not contacting the coach. While it may seem right to you to do so now, it easily could come back to haunt you in the future. You kick a call in another one of his games and then he says "when will I get my email from you...". The reasons why you should not do it far outweigh any reason or excuse you can come up with to justify it.

[johnnyg08]

Yeah, changing an out to safe...sorry guys. But I think others have covered that on here. Thanks for sharing your story. I hope the kid is okay.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I had a partner call a dead ball strike on a kid who ducked a pitch by placing his effing head in the strike zone and giving himself an earful. As he laid on the ground kicking and moaning, my partner tells me quietly, "It was a strike." I said something to the effect that when they're done attending to him, you need to make the call known. All he had done is call time.

So when they get the kid up to his feet (more scared than hurt), my partner declares, "That was a dead ball strike. The ball hit his head over the plate and in the strike zone. It's strike three and he's out. I'm sorry, but that's the call."

Well, needless to add, the SH*# started to fly. Head Coach: "Kevin, you have to do something!"

"Well, Jim, I am going to do something, I'm going to confirm that he is correct about the rule and he made the correct call. Your batter's head was in the strike zone when he was hit. The ball is dead and a strike is called and he's out." Then I added, "You should thank him for having the decency to wait until your player recovered and got to his feet before breaking the news that he's out."

Equally cruel outcome to the fallen player who can't get to his base safely. But cruel or not, a rule is a rule and an out is an out.

[Pops]

Thanks for the comments guys. I emailed my partner but not the coaches. I'll be seeing the one who it went against in 2 weeks. They won the game anyway and he's a good guy so I don't expect any trouble.

[mjr_2013]

It is HTBT, so I will reserve judgement on what I would have done, however... By the sound of it, no one had any problem with the out call in the first place. Coach came out, both coach and player were going back to the dugout, and your partner was probably about to head to his next position when you went out there. Why did you go looking to potentially change the call?

Sure you want to get the call right, but if your partner didn't ask for help, the coach didn't say anything, the player was ok with being out, and you were not positive he should have been called safe, why did you go out there at all?

[Pops]

It is HTBT, so I will reserve judgement on what I would have done, however... By the sound of it, no one had any problem with the out call in the first place. Coach came out, both coach and player were going back to the dugout, and your partner was probably about to head to his next position when you went out there. Why did you go looking to potentially change the call?

Sure you want to get the call right, but if your partner didn't ask for help, the coach didn't say anything, the player was ok with being out, and you were not positive he should have been called safe, why did you go out there at all?

The assistant coach in the 1B coaching box was doing some chirping about giving the runner second base which got me thinking (I should have not listened) and my partner was a rookie with little experience and little confidence in his calls. There was some time after the call when the runner was just lying there and the OC came out to evaluate his injury. That's when I made the decision to talk to my partner. You're right about HTBT.

[ukce1861]

jk,

Yes, he probably should be out, but you responded to the higher calling of an official, the safety of the player. Good job.

Gotta' disagree. Calling the player "safe" rather than "out" has absolutely no bearing on anyone's safety.

JM

Um...if he's not safe, he must be unsafe, right???

[BT_Blue]

I have to agree with the guys that say let the out stand. It sucks but it is correct.

[Thunderheads]

same thing happened to us in a game last season.

Home team winning by 7 or 8, ...TOP of 7 ....

2 outs ....BR walks, and steals 2nd.

F1 turns for a pick off and nails R2 right in the back ...off the bag ....we moans in pain off the bag, F6 picks up the ball and tags him. My partner bangs him .... ball game.

We get flack from the HOME TEAM coach ?!?!

"coach, if you had a problem with it, you should have told your F6 not to tag him!" :shakehead:

[mstaylor]

We had a situation a couple of years ago on opening day of the season. Batter hits an one hopper to center field, comes out of the box and blows his ACL. While he lay there two runs score then they tag him out. Completely correct call.

[midmoump]

Example video (OUCH!):

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=10082289&topic_id=&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_10082289&v=3

[Welpe]

That's nuts...

[BT_Blue]

^^ GROAN!!! ^^ LOL

Two words... NUTTY... BUDDY!

[MPLSMatt]

I had a partner call a dead ball strike on a kid who ducked a pitch by placing his effing head in the strike zone and giving himself an earful. As he laid on the ground kicking and moaning, my partner tells me quietly, "It was a strike." I said something to the effect that when they're done attending to him, you need to make the call known. All he had done is call time.

So when they get the kid up to his feet (more scared than hurt), my partner declares, "That was a dead ball strike. The ball hit his head over the plate and in the strike zone. It's strike three and he's out. I'm sorry, but that's the call."

Well, needless to add, the SH*# started to fly. Head Coach: "Kevin, you have to do something!"

"Well, Jim, I am going to do something, I'm going to confirm that he is correct about the rule and he made the correct call. Your batter's head was in the strike zone when he was hit. The ball is dead and a strike is called and he's out." Then I added, "You should thank him for having the decency to wait until your player recovered and got to his feet before breaking the news that he's out."

Equally cruel outcome to the fallen player who can't get to his base safely. But cruel or not, a rule is a rule and an out is an out.

This takes balls the size of watermellons but I love that you made him make the call.