JV/9th Grade Courtesy Runner

[MPLSMatt]

I work a lot of JV and 9th grade ball - always solo. In these games the coaches just exchange line ups - I'm not given a copy and am often not informed of subs. I've noticed a couple of times that the courtesy runner being inserted by the coaches are players who have already played in the game in another position (sometimes last out, other times players who've played but been removed). By official rule it's an out (CR7) and the sub is restricted (casebook CR1). Do you let it go if no one appeals? What do you do if Def. Coach appeals?

Personally, I'm not going to say anything unless it's appealed and if it is, I've got an out and a restriction. I think it's a harsh rule for JV game but all I have is the book so it is what it is.

[Umpire in Chief]

Without a line up card I may discretely say to a coach, "I don't know how you are playing,but in varsity level games we do it....."

[yawetag]

Be really careful how you handle these situations. I'd check with the state association to see what their rules are on sub-Varsity games. It's possible they've got a "have fun" attitude toward the games. If not, you need your organization to make it clear that the games will be played under the rules dictated by the state.

I'd feel very uncomfortable working a high school sanctioned game that doesn't work by the FED rules (minus any small changes), unless it's allowed by the state association.

[johnnyg08]

See how they want those games umpired. If you try to show them how many rules you know, you could be out of a job.

It's not likely, but I don't know how competitive games are to acquire in your area.

Good luck. Maybe in the future, bring it up at the plate meeting. Ask them if they want the courtesy runner rule enforced by the book or if they have their own house rules? Also, don't assume the 9th grade/JV coach knows the rule.

[zm1283]

Around here, the JV coaches don't even exchange lineups and don't give us one for the JV game most of the time. We let them handle the subs/courtesy runners and all of them are fine with it.

[noumpere]

I agree with Matt to let it go until questioned but I disagree that Id then enforce the out. Since I wouldnt allow the sub in the first place if I had a lineup card and Id just make the coach put in a correct runner thats what Id do here if I was told about it.

[ukce1861]

I agree with Matt to let it go until questioned but I disagree that Id then enforce the out. Since I wouldnt allow the sub in the first place if I had a lineup card and Id just make the coach put in a correct runner thats what Id do here if I was told about it.

I'm with you. I think I'd have trouble enforcing the out since I don't even have a lineup card. What's going to happen later when somebody you don't recognize as being ineligible becomes a CR and one of the coaches wants you to call them out and restricted? I would say, either you need to keep a lineup card or tell the coaches it's on them.

This is always the biggest concern to me about not keeping a lineup. It's great - until somebody wants me to straighten something out...

[JaxRolo]

Here we follow all FED procedures and rules even at Middle School games

[sdix00]

ANY game I work, I insist that I receive the lineup card. Including 8U softball.

I mark any subs and ask the coach to clarify how the player is entering the game. Double check with the opposing coach if it is a questionable entry, and off we go.

[johnnyg08]

I guess I don't insist on a lineup card. We have a precedent in many of our games where everybody knows everybody, we don't do lineup cards.

[ukce1861]

Most of the summer ball I do, I don't have lineups. The coaches exchange them and keep track - and that's fine with me. But I tell them at the plate, when they tell me they've already exchanged, that I'm not going to get in the middle of any substitution debates. You bring me a lineup, I'll keep track of it and enforce sub related rules. You choose not to, don't ask me to bail you out later.

[sdix00]

Yeah, OK. I guess I don't ask during fall ball.

[yawetag]

I don't ask in fall ball, but that's typical for the rule set they're using (most leagues state as such). However, unless your state association allows it, you have to follow the rules for FED baseball.

[Rich Ives]

I don't ask in fall ball, but that's typical for the rule set they're using (most leagues state as such). However, unless your state association allows it, you have to follow the rules for FED baseball.

If neither team cares about lineups don't waste your time caring. Heck, in middle school ball in these parts rosters are large and mus-play rules are in effect. You'd go nuts trying to track them. And don't worry, Mom will yell if Johnny doesn't get his innings (not unlike they did in LL).

[24sdad]

Yeah, OK. I guess I don't ask during fall ball.

Fall ball varsity...I dont think they even exchange line up cards around here. This is the time for teams to see who can do what, work on various aspects of their game, etc. It is not uncommon to see someone bat, get out, and come up two batters later to try it again. Illegal subs are common place. Neither coach cares. It is a time for everyone, including us, to work on those things we need to work on, try out new things (ie plate stance), etc. Its one man, $65 cash at plate meeting and they will throw in $10 more if they decide they want to go nine (which they usually do).

[mstaylor]

Again I will stress that MS and JV are what build varsity programs. This means not only players but managers and umpires. While it can be more relaxed you still have to go by the niceties so they learn properly. The coaches will not learn the varsity way, keeping line-ups, bat rules and other stuff if they can do as they wish at the lower levels. The same is true for umpires. They can not learn line-up management, mechanics and other needed tools without following the rules and working two man.

In our area they are allowed an EH but it is made very clear that it is a JV only thing.