In the spirit of the game?????

[umped up]

Round robin play. Games are 1:45 long. Game time starts on first warmup pitch. I always use a stopwatch to keep track of the time and I tell the coaches at the plate meeting how I will do this. I say on the first warmup pitch, as soon as that ball hits the catchers mit, I will start my stopwatch and that will be the official time. There is never a problem. I hate calling out a game time because there are too many discrepancies when it comes down to that final minute.

I'm the BU in this game. I start the watch at 1st warmup pitch like directed. First batter of the game comes to bat and after the first game pitch, PU calls out a game time. Im like, what? I immediately looked down at my stopwatch (after pulling from pocket) and noticed 2 minutes have expired. I waited until after that half inning to correct the time. I went over to the score keeper and explained that we are using a stopwatch. She had 8:58 game start but since I noticed a 2 minute difference I had her change it to 8:56. (not that it matters, right?) I'm not sure why PU couldn't understand this. We even talked about it before the game as of why a lot of us use the stopwatch. He seemed to get it. Maybe by habit, he blurted it out.

It comes to this. It's the bottom of the 6th, home team down by 2 with 2 outs. Theres about 4 minutes left at this time and Im thinking we are playing another full inning. Well, a walk ensues, then a base hit and before you know it the time is down to a minute before the game is official and this is the last half inning.

Well, the time expires with a hitter still at the plate, I signaled to my partner by pointing at my wrist and a slicing my throat action letting him know the official time has expired. Just a nod of his head.

Batter makes an out within the next couple of minutes. PU signals nothing so I put my hands up and said, that's ball game, the time has expired. The home team was being instructed to take the field. The coach comes out of the dugout with some time apparatus saying that there is 2 minutes left. I said, "no, the time has expired according to my stop watch". He said but the PU announced the game time and it was 8:58 and there is a couple minutes left here.

I explained to him that we discussed this during the plate meeting and I start the time on the first warmup pitch and after hearing the PU announce the time, I went to the official score keeper (on his team) and explained it and changed the time to 8:56.

This didnt matter at this point. He was sticking to the game time that was announced. He said that he wasn't aware of the change because noone let him know of it. At this time his players are askew on he field while the other team is in their organized little line to shake hands.

I stick to my guns knowing that this game was played to it's entirety, "officially". He now was getting more animated and saying that I'm wrong, just plain wrong. He says, "you are doing an injustice to my kids, it's my kids your hurting here, that's not in the spirit of baseball". While I can see where he is coming from, I made the choice that it was official. The game was played in the allotted amount of time given.

The thing that I may have done wrong was when I said to the coach, "is it an injustice to your kids or all the kids, If we play another inning and you end up coming back and winning, is it an injustice to now the other kids"? It absolutely is im thinking. The game was official and just because a coach want's me to put another 2 minutes on the clock because of the mishandling of time, the other team now loses and jerks a win away from them even though they beat them fair and square. I could only imagine the argument from the other coach who would have had a better argument.

I learned to make sure coaches know of any changes (not just to count on the official score keeper) and if PU doesn't call when time is expired, I will.

Did I do the right thing in making the game official?

[KLAH316]

Only ONE of you should control the official time. Whoever I work with, we always talk about it prior to going on the field. If I am PU I ALWAYS run the clock. If I am BU, I ask my partner what he prefers. I always have a stopwatch as well so I'm usually the one who manages the clock anyways.... During the plate meeting, I tell both coaches I am keeping time with a stopwatch and I start it in front of them as the meeting ends. We all shake hands then I take the watch out and start it saying "Time starts now.".

I have never had an issue with time management when it's done this way.

[Replacematt]

First, you were BU.

Second, time limits themselves are not in the spirit of baseball. As you have seen, they cause more issues than they alleviate.

[ukce1861]

Baseball should not be subject to a time limit.

Youth baseball however, most certainly should...

In my opinion, it makes more sense for the BU to keep the time. One, he can check it much more easily and inconspicuously. Two, it's harder for the coaches to bug him about it all the time, cause he's camped out in right field.

[Jimurray]

Only ONE of you should control the official time. Whoever I work with, we always talk about it prior to going on the field. If I am PU I ALWAYS run the clock. If I am BU, I ask my partner what he prefers. I always have a stopwatch as well so I'm usually the one who manages the clock anyways.... During the plate meeting, I tell both coaches I am keeping time with a stopwatch and I start it in front of them as the meeting ends. We all shake hands then I take the watch out and start it saying "Time starts now.".

I have never had an issue with time management when it's done this way.

Time limit games suck and are not real baseball. But when you umpire one ,which we all have to do, get the facts straight at the plate with the TD's concurrence. (I know the TD should not be there). BTW, in my neck of the woods the time starts at first pitch. And, based on my experience, if you have a TD, let them call the time.

[KLAH316]

Only ONE of you should control the official time. Whoever I work with, we always talk about it prior to going on the field. If I am PU I ALWAYS run the clock. If I am BU, I ask my partner what he prefers. I always have a stopwatch as well so I'm usually the one who manages the clock anyways.... During the plate meeting, I tell both coaches I am keeping time with a stopwatch and I start it in front of them as the meeting ends. We all shake hands then I take the watch out and start it saying "Time starts now.".

I have never had an issue with time management when it's done this way.

Time limit games suck and are not real baseball. But when you umpire one ,which we all have to do, get the facts straight at the plate with the TDs concurrence. (I know the TD should not be there). BTW, in my neck of the woods the time starts at first pitch. And, based on my experience, if you have a TD, let them call the time.

I can't disagree with everyone regarding Baseball and time limits.... However, it is always the umpires responsibility to keep track of time limits in all of the associations that I am an Independent Contractor for.... Therefore, I always do it the same way that I described above.

[yawetag]

Off topic, but how are you having 2 minutes between the first warmup pitch and the first pitch of the game?

[T-Rav]

Doesn't our control of the game start with receiving the lineup's, so when does the official time occur? Once the plate meeting is over or once you get the lineups, on the first pitch, or when the first pitch of the game is thrown to the batter? I just bought a stop watch so that I will never have to go to my cell phone on the field and always keep the game moving.

[umped up]

Off topic, but how are you having 2 minutes between the first warmup pitch and the first pitch of the game?

Easy. It took 2 minutes to throw 8 warm up pitches and a throw to second, then the first game pitch. There ya go.

[yawetag]

Off topic, but how are you having 2 minutes between the first warmup pitch and the first pitch of the game?

Easy. It took 2 minutes to throw 8 warm up pitches and a throw to second, then the first game pitch. There ya go.

That's about 30 seconds too long, assuming pitcher threw 8 in less than a minute.

[JaxRolo]

There have been times when I tell the coaches that time starts the second we break off the plate meeting and the home team takes 5-7 minutes to have a meeting, warm up pitches and get started. Then they complain when they run out of time.

[JaxRolo]

There have been times when I tell the coaches that time starts the second we break off the plate meeting and the home team takes 5-7 minutes to have a meeting, warm up pitches and get started. Then they complain when they run out of time.

[umped up]

Off topic, but how are you having 2 minutes between the first warmup pitch and the first pitch of the game?

Easy. It took 2 minutes to throw 8 warm up pitches and a throw to second, then the first game pitch. There ya go.

That's about 30 seconds too long, assuming pitcher threw 8 in less than a minute.

And the usual couple past balls, I'm sure.

[Rich Ives]

_{4.02 defines the start of the game. That's what I'm going to claim unless there's a written local or tournament rule defining it otherwise.}

[UmpJM]

Rich,

_{4.02 defines the start of the game. That's what I'm going to claim unless there's a written local or tournament rule defining it otherwise.}

Pretty much how I see it.

On games I work that have a time limit, I will give the official start time to each bench immediately before putting the ball in play for the first pitch of the game.

I pull my watch out of my pocket and give the next minute as the official start time.

If it starts getting "close" towards the end of the game, I'll give each bench a courtesy update at the half inning break.

JM

[NWA_UMP]

In our area it is set by the TD's. Most of the time the time limit starts on the first warm-up pitch. I use a stopwatch feature as well. If we are getting close I'll let teams know at the half inning break. If time expires during play I will wait till the next break in action to ANNOUNCE time has expired. I will also make a production of turning off the beeping watch attached to my belt loop just so everyone knows as well.

In youth ball time limits are just part of the game. Coaches learn how to work it and that is part of the game. Nothing like a coach barking about his rival stalling or wasting time. I look at them and tell them they have every right to do what they are doing. Kind of like the home team bunting to get out of an inning to play more or to get back to the TOP of the line up if they are losing and time is close. Gamesmanship is a must...

[Pops]

In our youth ball league, we have a time limit rule which requires us to finish the inning we are in when the time limit occurs (unless the home team is ahead and they are at bat). This eliminates stalling tactics by the coach who is closely watching the clock. A new inning may be started as long as the time limit has not occurred when the third out is made by the home team.

The original post asked the question, "Did I do the right thing in making the game official?"

I think the better question would be, "Did I manage the game correctly in order to avoid controversy at the end of the time limit?" And the answer is obviously no. The controversy could have been averted by working better with the PU and coaches as the game was starting so that no misunderstanding could occur at the end of the game.

[noumpere]

Doesn't our control of the game start with receiving the lineup's, so when does the official time occur? Once the plate meeting is over or once you get the lineups, on the first pitch, or when the first pitch of the game is thrown to the batter?

The game time starts whenever the tournament rules or local league rules say it starts. Some say its the first pitch and some say its the plate meeting and some say its the game time listed on the schedule and some say something else. Know your local rules.

In our youth ball league, we have a time limit rule which requires us to finish the inning we are in when the time limit occurs (unless the home team is ahead and they are at bat). This eliminates stalling tactics by the coach who is closely watching the clock.

No it doesnt and most time limit rules that I have worked with have the same provision of completeing the inning.

[umped up]

Doesn't our control of the game start with receiving the lineup's, so when does the official time occur? Once the plate meeting is over or once you get the lineups, on the first pitch, or when the first pitch of the game is thrown to the batter?

The game time starts whenever the tournament rules or local league rules say it starts. Some say its the first pitch and some say its the plate meeting and some say its the game time listed on the schedule and some say something else. Know your local rules.

In our youth ball league, we have a time limit rule which requires us to finish the inning we are in when the time limit occurs (unless the home team is ahead and they are at bat). This eliminates stalling tactics by the coach who is closely watching the clock.

No it doesnt and most time limit rules that I have worked with have the same provision of completeing the inning.

In this particular tournament, it was in the rules that the time started with first warm up

[scrounge]

By rule you were right, but if the PU announces a time to everyone publically, you probably should have just adjusted your watch to that. By correcting the scorekeeper, you in essence overruled your partner (who may or may not have known he was implicitly overruling you when you said at the plate meeting that you had the watch, I understand, but that's a lot more subtle). Did you tell the PU you changed the time? If not, why not? Why pick up that end of the stick?

Just strikes me as a bit too legalistic. If the PU says it's 8:58 and you didn't go to him and discuss the time change before the correction, then it's 8:58.

[Minnz]

This didnt matter at this point. He was sticking to the game time that was announced. He said that he wasn't aware of the change because noone let him know of it. At this time his players are askew on he field while the other team is in their organized little line to shake hands.

I stick to my guns knowing that this game was played to it's entirety, "officially". He now was getting more animated and saying that I'm wrong, just plain wrong. He says, "you are doing an injustice to my kids, it's my kids your hurting here, that's not in the spirit of baseball". While I can see where he is coming from, I made the choice that it was official. The game was played in the allotted amount of time given.

The thing that I may have done wrong was when I said to the coach, "is it an injustice to your kids or all the kids, If we play another inning and you end up coming back and winning, is it an injustice to now the other kids"? It absolutely is im thinking. The game was official and just because a coach want's me to put another 2 minutes on the clock because of the mishandling of time, the other team now loses and jerks a win away from them even though they beat them fair and square. I could only imagine the argument from the other coach who would have had a better argument.

Yup that is where I say you had a mess up. Never ever saw things like that to a coach. Opinion has no place as an umpire. Out/Safe, Strike/Ball, Rule is right or wrong. Do not get into arguments on philosophy with a coach. Game is over leave the field with your partner.

[umped up]

By rule you were right, but if the PU announces a time to everyone publically, you probably should have just adjusted your watch to that. By correcting the scorekeeper, you in essence overruled your partner (who may or may not have known he was implicitly overruling you when you said at the plate meeting that you had the watch, I understand, but that's a lot more subtle). Did you tell the PU you changed the time? If not, why not? Why pick up that end of the stick?

Just strikes me as a bit too legalistic. If the PU says it's 8:58 and you didn't go to him and discuss the time change before the correction, then it's 8:58.

Absolutely, I talked with him before hand. He said that he totally forgot about the stop watch on the warm up pitch. He was totally cool with me doing that. If I would have just added a couple minutes to my watch when he did that, Im sure that would have come to bite me in the rump from the other team somehow.

[umped up]

This didnt matter at this point. He was sticking to the game time that was announced. He said that he wasn't aware of the change because noone let him know of it. At this time his players are askew on he field while the other team is in their organized little line to shake hands.

I stick to my guns knowing that this game was played to it's entirety, "officially". He now was getting more animated and saying that I'm wrong, just plain wrong. He says, "you are doing an injustice to my kids, it's my kids your hurting here, that's not in the spirit of baseball". While I can see where he is coming from, I made the choice that it was official. The game was played in the allotted amount of time given.

The thing that I may have done wrong was when I said to the coach, "is it an injustice to your kids or all the kids, If we play another inning and you end up coming back and winning, is it an injustice to now the other kids"? It absolutely is im thinking. The game was official and just because a coach want's me to put another 2 minutes on the clock because of the mishandling of time, the other team now loses and jerks a win away from them even though they beat them fair and square. I could only imagine the argument from the other coach who would have had a better argument.

Yup that is where I say you had a mess up. Never ever saw things like that to a coach. Opinion has no place as an umpire. Out/Safe, Strike/Ball, Rule is right or wrong. Do not get into arguments on philosophy with a coach. Game is over leave the field with your partner.

Definitely will keep that in mind. Thanks

[semper_fi_72]

If your doing a tournament the game times are published and hopefully your running on time.

If you do manage to get games started a little early or late then we have to make sure we use the correct start time and everyone knows it.

In these cases game time starts the time the plate meeting is concluded.

Good luck to both of you game time is........

Home team take the field.

As BU it is not your place unless it was discussed previously with PU.

PU is in charge of the game and you work for him.

[Pops]

Doesn't our control of the game start with receiving the lineup's, so when does the official time occur? Once the plate meeting is over or once you get the lineups, on the first pitch, or when the first pitch of the game is thrown to the batter?

The game time starts whenever the tournament rules or local league rules say it starts. Some say its the first pitch and some say its the plate meeting and some say its the game time listed on the schedule and some say something else. Know your local rules.

In our youth ball league, we have a time limit rule which requires us to finish the inning we are in when the time limit occurs (unless the home team is ahead and they are at bat). This eliminates stalling tactics by the coach who is closely watching the clock.

No it doesnt and most time limit rules that I have worked with have the same provision of completeing the inning.

Noump: I think you are saying that stalling tactics are not eliminated by requiring the game's inning to finish. Maybe not 100%, but to a large degree, yes they are. This rule was put into place for this very reason in our league years ago and has worked well. Without it coaches would get a lead and find various ways to stall until the time limit was reached (like running out the clock in a basketball or football game). Although they can still do that a little bit, the team that's behind can still be guaranteed to bat in their last inning without the game being called.