umped up

Batter squares to bunt, the pitch was a slow curveball, he fouled it back except this one had about a foot arch on it. The question is, when is it considered an out if the catcher catches it or a foul tip? On the above scenario, the catcher just missed it before it hit the ground, which made me wonder how i would have called that if he caught it before it hit the ground.

I would think "no call" because the fielder has the right to make a play on the ball and the runner has the right to the bag. "I have nothing"!

I know it's been awhile since I've bothered my fellow brothers but I have a few questions. What a busy and hot as hell season so far. On a KS, the ball deflects in front of the plate, F2 hollers "inside", right then BR immediately alters his path and starts running way inside the runners lane. F2 throws to F1 without issues........but. What if his throw is errant and goes into RF because the runner made him throw wider than expected? Is that interfernece? Does the throw need to hit BR? I'm hearing conflicting responses. I think that would be interference because he "intentionally" interferred with the throw. Thoughts.

This has never happened to me before and now on 2 seperate occasions in the last 2 weeks, it's happend twice. R1, base hit to right, R1 heading to 3rd, (I'm PU) I'm covering 3rd, R1 slides and the call is OUT! R1 immediately after his pop up slide, throws an elbow at the 3rd baseman, I immediately eject him. All is fine and good with that. Now the manager from the other team comes out and wants the BR to return to 1st base claiming without the thrown elbow, BR would have been thrown out at 2nd. HMMMMM. I know you cant assume an out. I met with my partner and we just left BR at 2nd. I have this discussion with other umpires and recieved mixed opinions. Some say if BR wasn't at second base yet, it's a dead ball and BR returns to 1B. If the 3rd baseman wasn't in the act of making a throw to 2nd during the elbow throw, leave BR there. I can see where this might boundary on interference if in the act of throwing. Is the ejection irrelevant on the baseball field as far as a dead ball goes. Sit 2 R1, R2, base hit, throw goes home (Im FU) throw is going to beat R2 by a mile....R1 is rounding 2nd and I notice him stopping hard between 2nd and 3rd seeing the low throw from the outfield and he'd be dead meat once F2 makes the easy tag and throws him out at 3rd. Well, right then, R2 plows into F2 and immediately get tossed out of the game, R1 (while the collision happened) continued on to 3rd easily. Now, nothing happened here with coaches, fans or parents but I was thinking....without the collision, R1 would have at the least be caught in a rundown. Would that also be interference on R2? He did impede on him attemping a throw to third or the opportunity to run at the runner. Hmmm

that starts to get a little too complicating. If there is a balk, you would think that all runners advance plus the batter for interference. why do they have to complicate these things by having different applications for different organizations? GEEZ... :FIRE:

PERFECT! Thank you for the rule. Just looked it up and it's clear. No more responses necessary. Thanks bro.

I was asked by another umpire while traveling to a game together a rules question. Pitcher in the set position W R3. R3 takes off for home. F-1 legally throws the ball home like a pitch but the catcher jumps in front of the plate to make a tag on R3. He asked what I had. I said it would be interference on F-2 for not allowing B1 the opportunity to swing at the pitch. He said, "nope". What? He said it was a balk since the ball never crossed the foul line. Hmmmmm. He said it's just like a pitcher dropping the ball on the mound and it not crossing the foul line. Never heard of this situation. I always thought it was interference on F2. Thoughts...

I paused the video just before he spins then hit play and pause again. It appears he actually lost ground. The front foot comes up and slightly back and down again. I did this 3-4 times over and it definitely appears he gained no ground whatsoever.

Here's where things went wrong. When you hear this, and see that's it coming from inside the dugout - he's gone. He should've been ejected before you even got to the dugout; when you get there, you're just shutting down the discussion and telling him to leave immediately. Then your partner never has an opportunity to let him stay. If I could only do it over again.......

I just learned a hard lesson. I can assure you that this kind of game will never (never say never) happen again as long as im involved. I should have overruled him and thrown the thug out of the park. I'm ashamed and embarassed. Who said anything about "overruling" someone. The BU has the same authority at the PU. If you decide something needs to be taken care of then do it. Yes but I always thought that the PU ruled the game as far as when he makes a decision, it's his decision. Period! He made the choice to keep the thug in the game, I allowed it because he was the chief. Sorry I didn't realize I should have overruled the one in charge....

I just learned a hard lesson. I can assure you that this kind of game will never (never say never) happen again as long as im involved. I should have overruled him and thrown the thug out of the park. I'm ashamed and embarassed. :ph34r:

Yes, thank you for that. My application needs some work. I'm definitely not an English teacher.

Im not too sure of that. The pitcher didn't square off, he just threw it up and in. The batter, because of all the hoopla, I assume, took a few steps towards the pitcher but digressed right away when ordered to. 1B also retreated once ordered and the game went on. I don't see where EJ's are warranted there.

Coaching travel ball, and seeing how generally poor the umpiring truly was, played a large part in convincing me to try umpiring. Why do the other sports have generally good officiating and umpiring such poor officiating. I haven't officiated any other sports but baseball but is it maybe that baseball is so much more complex than the other sports? There is so much to baseball and without proper training (which most don't get) your going to miss a lot of things. I know in my area, a lot of the umpires that I've worked with seem to do it for the money and not care too much about the game itself. I know of a guy who tells players if they cant afford league fees to help umpire youth baseball and he'll apply the games they do to their fees. Wow! They could do 6 games at $30 per and the $180 will be taken off his fees. Or, he could do all the games necessary to fulfill the total fee to play. Right there you are asking for a disaster. Zero experience and just throw them out there........ I had a post game with my partner and he didn't seem to see where the problem was. I told him that he should have tossed the guy in the dug out but he disagreed claiming that he thought he had him under control. He didn't understand where the problem was. I didn't want to piss him off and tell him his strike zone was garbage, so I said to him I thought the zone was a little inconsistent. He disagreed. He obviously wasn't seeing things that were right in front of him. He missed more things than balls and strikes in that game. He allowed a courtesy runner for an ex catcher until the coach said he couldn't do that. The other coach started spouting that PU already said he could. PU called time and brought me in. (at this time, I didn't realize the switch) I asked PU if the kid on first is the catcher at this point in time? He says no. Cant do it I said. He walks off and says, " my bad coach but he can't have a runner". One of many little things that I didn't bother bringing up. I asked my partner in the parking lot how many years of umpiring he had under his belt, he says, " quite a few". Hmmmmm. I would guess this was his first but ya never know......

Im sure soon enough it will end up on you tube. Supposedly, the whole incident was on video. That will be handy in court.

I look back on this and what I should have done was to have my partners back. He simply allowed both teams to question his zone all game which lead to one of the fans on the visiting dugout to say "stop your bitching", which was misinterpreted with "calling his Mother a bitch". That would never have happend if it was squashed early on. By allowing the "out of uniform coach" to stay in the game after his outburst was a HUGE mistake. He should have been gone right then and there. I will do that differently it anything like that happens again regardless of who the PU is. He was the man in charge so I let it be. MISTAKE on me. By him staying in the game, it caused the other coach to have words with him which escalated to the brawl. I'm ASHAMED! This did not have to happen. WE allowed this happen. I asked the UIC when and if I should step in and take control and he said definitely take control if my partner is not. I didn't want to step on his toes but look where that got me. It really sickens me to no end. It should be about the kids man. Those parents and coaches were a horrible example for them. :bang:

Coaching travel ball, and seeing how generally poor the umpiring truly was, played a large part in convincing me to try umpiring. I couldn't agree with you more. This is one of the issues I left out of this whole post. I was asking myself throughout the game when do I (or can I ) take over the game. He let the arguing go way to long. They were brutalizing him behind the dish (both teams) and he just took it. Occasionally, he would say, " you do your job and let me do mine ". He never gave out a warning to stop questioning his strike zone. Here was an umpire out of his league. He should have never been doing a championship game let alone a 14 yr old game. When I was talking with the commisoner, he said his organization was partly to blame by scheduling umpires who have no business umpiring at certain levels. This umpire was pretty bad. He had no clue where to be on the field, proper mechanics, attitude, etc. I told him early after the incident that the hostile coach who was threatning should leave the game. He responded by saying " that he's quiet now ", I just shook my head and went about my business. I look back on this now and wish I would have just taken matters in my own hand before it got to the point it did. I should have come to his rescue when he allowed all the yelling at him to go on. I feel somewhat responsible. I really don't want to bash on another fellow umpire but he was terrible. Wow is right!

Would you believe............Watching it? :ZZZ:

3 day tournament, it's Sunday and my final game of 6 for the day. It's the championship game. 14 majors. These two teams have played each other a few times in the past and in this tournament. Coaches yelling at the players.... " Go, Back, What are you doing, Take another, look at me, now, take another, get your head in the game, what are you thinking, you wanna come out, swing the bat, thats not a quality pitch, get in front of the ball, do you wanna quit now, are you serious, throw the ball will ya, hit the cut and many more. What ever happend to letting the kids play baseball? These kids are scared of making mistakes that they are making them. They no longer have a mind of their own with the way these coaches are hollering at them and making every move for them. Let them play the game and correct them in the dugout or better yet at practice. Give them the freedom to enjoy the game and learn from THEIR mistakes. I feel it's more about the coaches and their bragging rights after it's all said and done about who took first place. They go back to work on Monday and brag about his tournament team... This championship game was filled with testosterone. The home team had four overzealous Italians that hollered over every close call and pitch while the other teams coaches were getting frustrated with their antics. Let me get to the meat and potatoes here and skip all the other garbage. I'm in the "A" slot and I hear a parent on the 3rd base side say, " hey watch your language there's kids present ". I took notice but thought nothing of it thinking it was just a player using bad language telling a story or what have you. Then all the sudden I hear, " F U Mother FR, I'll kick your ass "! There was this person in the dugout talking to a fan on their side. I called time and immediately started walking to the dugout along with my partner. At this time he was shouting obscenities to this person and threatning to kick his ass. The coaches were holding him back at this point because he was trying to go outside the dugout to get to him. Apparently, this person said out loud "quit your bitching" and the guy in the dugout thought he called his Mother a bitch. This fan was from the other team and videoing the game. He was told to get back on his side at this time. The person in the dugout was out of uniform and the PU asked for him to leave the dugout. He responded by saying he was a coach. The PU allowed him to stay. (He should have been gone for his language) After a few minutes of getting this to settle, the very next pitch was high and tight. B1 took 3-4 steps towards F1, I said, " no you don't, get back in the box and at the same time F3 was walking towards B1 and I told him to get back to his position ". There was obviously immense tension in the air. The next half inning, Im in the "A" slot and after a few pitches the 3rd base coach goes to talk to PU and didn't look happy. I'm not sure what he was talking to him about but I could tell he was displeased about something. He walked back to 3rd base and before the next pitch, he turned around and hollered over to me " hey, I thought he told him to leave the dugout " as he's now walking back towards PU. I started walking to my partner when this person who was out of uniform started yelling back at the coach. The next thing I notice when I look up is the two opposing coaches are pushing each other and that's all it took for all hell to break loose. The dugouts cleared, players started charging, fans came onto the field and it was an all out brawl. I noticed a couple of players shoving and I broke that up quickly but that's all I could do at this point. From here I just kept my head on a swivel while watching a lot of shoving and yelling. There were just as many people trying to break it up as there was the ones trying to fight. Without getting in to all the details, the HT coach threw a punch and connected with the VT coaches chin. After about 3-4 minutes we got them seperated. The game was in the TOP of the 7th with the HT up by 7 with one out. We had called the game.... The police were called and lawsuits pending. The police blocked off the entrances so that noone can leave and all statements were taken. After 3 days of kids playing their butts off and making it to the final game, the winner is..........noone. Where did all the fun in baseball go??????

Another way is asking them why the batter can't advance. Chances are they'll say it's because the ball i s dead. So then you ask them if that means runners can't advance on a WP. Then the light will go on. Funny you say that. I just did a tournament this weekend where a coach argued this very thing. The ball hits the dirt then the hitter, I send him to 1B. He came to argue that the ball was dead, I said to him, " if you have a runner on first and the pitcher bounces one past the catcher and the runners takes off for second, what would you say if I sent him back to first and said it was because the ball was dead "? He said, " we'll it wouldn't be dead unless it hit the batter". Exactly! So it remains live "unless" it hits the batter meaning the ball is live and well if it hits the ground. Bingo. He got it.....

It could also be OBS if you judged the fielder, without possession of the ball, completely prevented the runner from having access to the base. This may have been covered in an earlier post but must the fielder have the ball or be making a play on the ball for it not to be obstruction?

Absolutely not necessary umped up, Based on your description of "first baseline extended up the 3B line a little bit" it sounds to me like your positioning for this play was poor. Additionally, I would have made every effort to indicate to my partner he was not to come talk to me that inning, so as not to give the perception - as stated above - that we were discussing the play. Furthermore, I would most certainly not have shaken hands with my partner for any reason if he did come and visit. When a coach comes out to argue firing on all cylinders, it is not wise to get into a "yes he did" "no he didn't" pissing contest right off the start, especially if the coach is yelling. You make good points. Never thought much about the shaking of the hands thing. As far as my positioning, I may not explain exactly where I was, it's one of those things I guess that you need to be there to see exactly where I was. I had a fantastic look at it. I was 100% the tag was made. I know that even though you see it indefinitely doesn't mean your position was correct. I started at 3rd base extended and as I saw the play unfold, I worked my way up the 3rd base line (of course off the line a bit) and caught the angle of the swipe of his foot or backside. I was positioned in a fashion to where I either see daylight or a tag. Should I have just let him go off on me? As I think about it, I think the asnwer is yes. By me saying, "yes he did, he got his foot", isn't going to change his mind. He already knows that I think I got the tag. Sooooo. Just let him go off for a bit as long as he doesn't get too carried away and simply move on?

I totally agree with you on that one. I had a partner that liked to visit between innings all the time. I'm not an advocat of this. When I'm the BU, I position myself in short right and wait until the catcher throws the ball to 2nd. As the PU, I position myself just up the 1st base line and count pitches. I know that sometimes you meet here and there but not every fricken time.

Thanks. Sounds like a good way to handle that.

I agree 99.99% Only time I would like my Partner to speak up is if I forget to say "are your Players Legally and properly equipped. (I don't remember that ever happening, but just in case) I want my a$$ covered. Ok, let me ask you this. In tournament play, there are times your partnered with new blood. If at the plate meeting, what do you do if he doesn't really know how to handle one. Is this as simple as to ask him before the game if he knows how to do a plate meeting? Then go over what to talk about if he's not sure?