umped up

Thanks for the help guys, going 1B extended would be the best bet for the PU in that situation. Definitely a learning moment....and of course me working to get a better angle for the tag.

If the play happend like I am invisioning it, I would call him safe. I asked an umpire at a camp (he does D1 ball) about what makes a catch a catch? He explained to me it has to be voluntary release meaning putting his throwing hand into the glove to rid the ball. There are obvious ones of course like an outfielder making a catch then trotting back to the dug out and drops the ball. This is still an out. There has to be some common sense applied to some of these rules. If an outfielder makes a running catch and takes another 5-6 steps, runs into the wall and the ball is dislodged, it's a no catch. I had a play (before I knew about the voluntary release) where the hitter hit a line drive to the right of the SS, he lunged at it and caught it. With his momentum taking him another 4-5 steps off balance, he ended up falling down and rolling then the ball comes out. U1 calls him out and everyone was talking about how the ball was on the ground. He met with me and I told him what I saw. I said he caught the ball, took another 4-5 steps then fell forward and rolled then dropped the ball. I said he's out. I made the wrong call. Since he never had control over his body and no voluntary release it would be a no catch.....if Im understanding properly. I know with the experienced umpires here, the right answer will come out. That's how we learn. Maybe the same rule doesn't apply on a tag play (voluntary release)

Thanks. That's what I need right there was the intent of the rule. So when does the catcher start to move out? during the movement towards home or the release (arm starting to move forward?

For clarification, when does the catcher step out of the box to recieve the pitch? Is it during the release or when the pitcher starts his motion home. I'm thinking its during the release since in the rules (MLB)8.05 L the pitcher, while giving an intentional base on balls, pitches when the catcher is not in the catcher's box. Im keying on the word "pitches" but not sure. If there are runners on base, its a balk if the catcher leaves the box early. With noone on and this happens, is it just nothing? I'd assume so since there's really no penalty to dish out. One might think, who in the world would intentionally walk a batter with no one on? Barry Bonds. I've seen this happen a number of times when in a one run game, they walk the power hitter usually with two outs though.

Sometimes you have to enforce something that is going to lead to game changing situation. I've had coaches say a run is on me. Most of the time, they are wrong. I don't care that I get cussed in the post game if what I did was correct and needed to control the game. Twice I have specifically made calls that ended games that took teams out of state play-offs. I have made many others that were big or possibly pivotal but these directly took teams out of the tournament. They were both completely correct and I would make it again. I assure I was the bastard of the day but that's life. I totally agree with that. I should have said that if you think you missed a call and it was detrimental to the outcome, you don't want to be that guy. Fortunately, I've never been on the end of causing a team to win or lose because I blew something. Last year, I made an obstruction call on the third baseman in the bottom of the 7th that ended the ball game. The coach was furious even though I was correct in the ruling. The runner was stealing third and the throw went to left field, when the runner does his pop up slide he continues home except the 3rd baseman was on the home plate side of third and the runner fell down when he collided with him. He got back up and continued home. He was out by about 4-5 steps. Without the obstruction he scores easily. The left fielder wasn't backing up the throw so you can imagine how far away he was from the ball. Coach blamed me for the loss but I just kept walking off the field with my partner....

Makes sense! This is the exact reason why I joined this forum, not to do battle but rather to learn. Thanks for the help.

Yeah, I agree with you two. Meandering was a poor choice of words there. That's one thing I hate about the two man is that sometimes your angles are bad. I try everytime to get the best angle but once in awhile it happens. I was taught to ask for help like I did and probably wont use that mechanic again. Also the UIC said that the plate guy was sleeping and focused on the wrong play. I definitely see why he would watch the runner touch the plate but when the UIC told me that 1st base had precedence over watching a touch at home made me think he was sleeping at the wheel. The only reason I used the word nitwit is that after hearing other umpires opinion about it, they had me think he hung me out to dry. When I'm behind the dish, I always make sure I'm looking down at first for a pulled foot, running lane interference and swipe tag. I usually just gamble and assume the runner touches home when I know the play is at first. I know that could get me in deep doo doo if an alert coach notices that I didn't see him touch home and decided to appeal it since he knows that I don't know. I guess I'm a little confused now of exactly what the proper mechanic is here. I always try to help my partner out by putting an extra set of eyes on a play (whenever possible) so that I can bail him out if needed. I do like however not to point to PU and ask, "did he pull his foot or get the tag" and simply make a call to the best of my ability from the information that was in front of me and If hell breaks loose then call time and go talk to my partner. I guess if he has nothing, I just stick with the call I made and move on. Thanks guys.

We are charged $4 per game for a scheduling fee. That's how our assigner gets paid for his time. He makes it clear at the beginning of the season that he will allow a few "turn backs" but don't complain when all of the sudden you aren't scheduled many games. Arbiter is a fantastic tool. Things come up in life and most sensible people know this but it's the ones who are irresposible that ruin it for the majority. If you accept a game, fulfill your obligation.....period. (yes there are always exceptions) Your track record will usually go in your favor or against.....

Thank you for the reply. I was taught (given U-1 is doing his job) to immediately point at him and ask. What you said though makes good sense. Even though in my heart I know he was out giving the circumstances, I handled it terrible. I look back now and laugh.

This story is actually hilarious (now anyway) This took place last year in MSBL (Mens senior baseball league) and was doing the 18 and over team. Here's the Sitch. I'm in the "C" slot and a ground ball hit to F-6, I meandered and got straight lined with F-3 on a swipe tag. F-3 comes off the bag and swipes at the runner and I had no clue what the call was. There was two outs and immediately, I pointed to U-1 and said, "did he get the tag"? Here's where the s$%# hits the fan. He shrugged his shoulders and said, "I didn't see it". I'm all alone here because he had no interest in helping me. To gather my thoughts, I visited U-1 to discuss and the decision was all mine. I had no clue what to do here. What call do you make when no one seen the play? Ok, here's where it gets stupid on my part. I walked down the first base line towards the runner and the fielder as they are anxiously awaiting my call. I look at R-1 and said, "Ok, where going to put you on the honor system here, did he tag you"? He grinned at F-3, then composed himself and said "no". I could tell by his response that he was tagged. So I called him out. Wow! The jokes were starting and I deserved it. They were talking about my crystal ball, human lie detector, etc. A lot of it was in fun but nonetheless, a serious tone to all of it. I screwed that up badly. My worst situation yet and I'm sure many to come. What is the proper way to handle this when neither of you saw the play? And by the way, my nitwit partner says that he was looking down to make sure R-3 touched home plate. Seriously? That play supersedes the important one at first?

When I was at the Topeka clinic, I was listening to a lecture from Jim Evans. He was saying that a player can block the bag if he is making a play on the ball. Huh? I'm not clear on this at all. How is it legal for a player to block a base? I'm sure that I misunderstood him but I even asked him and all he said was "is he making a play on the ball"? If that's the case the first baseman could drop to his knees during a pick off attempt by the pitcher not allowing the runner to have access to the bag. He is in fact making a play on the ball. What is the ruling on this? Does a player "ever" have the right to block the bag during a play? I know that plays at home are a little different given the age and the slide rule, which brings up another point. The catchers seem to move up the line (while the throw is being made to them) and the runner is expected to move around him and not make contact. I've had coaches argue with me on this and all I could tell them was that as long as the catcher is making a play on the ball, it's legal. Am I wrong?

oops, I mean elbow.

I've always been taught to sell what you believe and stick with it. Timing is crucial here, like many of you said, gather all the information around you then make the call and sell it. Believe in it and go with it and move on. Does anyone remember seeing in a college game ole miss against Arkansas. The left handed batter took a pitch high and in and he acted like it hit him. He put on one hell of an acting job. He acted like it hit him directly on the wrist. He hopped around holding his wrist, bending over in pain and the whole time he's doing this, the PU is not rewarding him the base. The replay clearly shows that the ball didn't even touch him. The ensuing pitch is KS and he points the bat at the ump in anger and gets TOSSED. What a knucklehead. Im going to try and post it, but Im not sure how to do it.

I'm thinking that going unnoticed is good (to a point). Don't let the game become bigger than you are, you still need to control it and intervene when necessary. Ideally, you never want to be a part of the outcome. If the umpires names stay out of the coaches mouths during there post game meeting with the team, you did your job. How many times do you hear coaches bark at umpires "that's on you blue" or "that's your run blue". I've had those and I hate the feeling.

funny, I meant to say R-2 and R-3

This may not be anything and I'm sure it's not.....but Bottom of the 7th inning, down by 1 f-2 and f-3. The hitter hits a walk off. Both runners score but the hitter rounded first and got halfway to 2nd and veered off to join in the celebration at home plate. The team was yelling at him to run the bases so he circled around and hit 1st base "again" and continued his trot around the bases. I'm just not sure there is a rule in place stating you cant hit a bag twice. I know it could be abandonment but it wouldn't have mattered since the two runs scored and that was enough to seal the deal. Just curious about him hitting first base twice. Thoughts??

I l love your shirt by the way..........Your the one who's had some great responses and I know this because of the shirt. Just so you know that is not really me. If it was I would have my hands all over myself all the time! Yes, I know this. lol. I would love to argue with her...errrrrr them.....ummmm, where was I? Oh....that's right, I was wanting to tell you of a shirt that I own, That I think is cool. "If you want to be safe at home, sleep with an umpire".

Your another guy that has some great points that I've learned from. This site is great. Thank you for welcoming me and believe me, I will flood this room with questions and situations. How the hell else do you learn? Right? Awesome........

I l love your shirt by the way..........Your the one who's had some great responses and I know this because of the shirt. :wow:

forgive me for my ignorance but I'm not sure of one of those abbreviations. What is "FED"? I see it often but never knew exactly what it stood for. Thanks.

Hey all, I have been browsing this site for a long time and finally decided to join. I got tired of chomping at the bit with questions and to simply add some input. I have learned a lot from just reading. There are some very intelligent umpires here and through time, You won me over. I'm from Kansas City and in my third year of umpiring. Im 43 years old and yes, I still play the lovely game of baseball in the MSBL. My passion is baseball. I've come to the realization that I cant play this game forever and the next best thing to it is umpiring. This way, I can stay close to the game I so adore. The things that seperates me from a lot of the umpires out there is that I care. The money is nice but that's not my motive. My first year of umpiring was 2 years ago and starting out with the 9 year olds.....wow! What a train wreck! I know why you start there though....you'll encounter all the oddities for you to figure out and give you the experience to handle situations. I put forth a great effort and learned quickly. I gave all my hustle, concentrated on good mechanics, watched other umpires after my work was complete, learned from others mistakes and before the year was over, I ended up doing the college showcase at Kaufmann stadium. What a treat. I progressed throughout the year, it wasn't like I did little league all year then.....bang, Kaufmann. I started with 9 yr olds for a couple of weeks, went to 10-11, a couple of weeks, then 12-13......then majors....then 15-16......yadi yadi. My second year, I ended up doing another game at Kaufmann stadium (Royals) but this time, I did the dish for all nine innings. This year was my first year doing college baseball. KJCCC. To my surprise, I did a conference game against Allen County and Fort Scott. What a treat that was. Not bad for the start of my third year of umpiring. don't get me wrong here, I'm not bragging, I'm just implying that caring about what you do pays off. I spend quite a bit of time in the rule book and on sites like this. This by the way is the only site that I've paid money for...............and it's well worth it. Side note: I have been to two 3 day clinics in the past 2 years, one involving Jim Evans do a lot of the instructing. I'm sure like most clinics these days, they were held doing live college baseball and sessions on the side. Anyway, Im glad to be part of this forum and looking forward to learning every single day. One of my favorite quotes comes from Tony Larussa, "The thing I love about baseball is that I learn something everyday". That's how I approach umpiring, I'll never know it all!