Galarraga's Perfe...1 Hitter

[Mike Prince]

The Commissioner can change the call and has changed calls in the past. I've read over and over on this, and other, forums that the most important thing is getting the call right. Why is this any different? Joyce already admitted he made a mistake, so the right thing to do would be to overturn the call in deference to the spirit of the game and not hold so tight to the letter of rule (in this instance, so as to prevent anyone from responding saying we should have all calls changed in order to make everyone happy....).

But that opens another door. Suppose that there was a defensive banger by the Phillies in Roy Halladay's perfect game the other day (purely as a theoretical example, I have no specific play to reference) that on slo-mo replay looks wrong and the opposing manager/team wants to make a big deal about it....hopefully you get the idea, it is not a perfect game from many perspectives and that is a large appeal of the game. It's not MLB'10 on xbox where everything is perfect.

I understand your perspecive to a point, but if this call is overturned in a matter of days/weeks/months the event of the (im)perfect game and all of the outcry/emotion/sympathy will be forgotten by many but the door is now open to "executive review" of any close call to preserve shutouts/close games/(insert scenario here). We may as well have the government "save" baseball at that point ( just making a humorous point with that, not trying to kill this thread )

Did Galarraga earn a perfect game? Yes, absolutely - he was awesome. Is he entitled to it because someone else made a mistake? Absolutely not.

Edited June 3, 2010 by bikerider

[fbara]

Joyce missed a judgment call. It's a simple judgment call (out/safe). It sucks that it was in this situation, it's terrible the way the Detroit Tigers acted after the game. It is what it is. The minute MLB starts overruling one out/safe or fair/foul call, this game will become a travesty. Managers will be wanting every little banger to be replayed. And you know what? I could do the job of a Major League umpire if that happens. We all could. Go out there, look good, make a call and if you're wrong, who cares right?

Ok, I'm sorry for hijacking this thread, but I think it needs to be pointed out that MLB HAS changed calls in the past. This is nothing new. After they changed past calls, no revolution happened, it didn't rain dogs and cats, the cities didn't burn down, life went on and so did baseball.

As for George Brett, Lee MacPhail, American League President at the time, ended up overruling the umps for having too much pine tar on his bat and reinstated his HR. Not a perfect analogy, but one none the less, and found while doing a google search for only a few min. My point is, and I do have one, is that there's historical precedent for overruling ump calls and the game survived.

frank

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if i keep going on this thread i might hit 100 posts!!

Edited June 3, 2010 by fbara
adding snide remark.

[BrianC14]

The Commissioner can change the call and has changed calls in the past. I've read over and over on this, and other, forums that the most important thing is getting the call right. Why is this any different? Joyce already admitted he made a mistake, so the right thing to do would be to overturn the call in deference to the spirit of the game and not hold so tight to the letter of rule (in this instance, so as to prevent anyone from responding saying we should have all calls changed in order to make everyone happy....).

Baloney.

In the past, things were changed based on RULES interps, such as with George Brett's 'pine tar'.

All you're advocating here is to allow baseball to slip further down the slope.

If it's OK to reverse this call, then how about reversing the travesty of the call made in Don Larsen's WS game? Let's get them all re-written, then. Wouldn't want to walk on precedence now, would we?

Edited June 3, 2010 by BrianC14

[kcfan102]

Baloney.

In the past, things were changed based on RULES interps, such as with George Brett's 'pine tar'.

All you're advocating here is to allow baseball to slip further down the slope.

True. MLB ruled that that call wasn't in the "spirit of the rule". This was a rule interpretation. Teams can protest situations that question the rules. Wednesday wasn't a rule question, it is a judgment call.

[Mike Prince]

Teams can protest situations that question the rules. Wednesday wasn't a rule question, it is a judgment call.

Truth. Play on (which they are right now )

[BrianC14]

If MLB is going to overturn a call "because it's the right thing to do" or some other touchy-feely freakin' thing, then let's just chuck human umpires altogether, then. The technology exists so that umpires aren't even necessary - let's dump them and use electronics.

Wow, won't that be fun?

And while we're at it - the players make mistakes all the time, too. Let's use robots instead. Game tickets will go back to $1.50 for a box seat.

Yes, let's do it.

:banghead:

[Umpire in Chief]

Well I almost made it all day at work (3:15) without being asked about the play. It was non-confrontational, but when you're known as the umpire, you will sometimes catch heat for what the pros do.

[fbara]

I just heard on a sports radio program that MLB announced they would not reverse the ump call. Instead they will look into "reviewing the umpire system including expanding the role of instant replay". So this chapter is over.

We do many things each day because "it's the right thing to do" even though it might go against the rules, and no, that's not being touchy-feely or any or anything similar. To me, it's pretty cold if EVERYONE involved in an issue admits a mistake was made and we don't make an effort to correct that mistake because of some allegiance to a 'rule'. Rules change, every day, for many reasons. Not doing the right thing (again, after all parties involved agree a mistake was made), that's a shame.

http://wcbstv.com/local/umpire.bad.call.2.1730488.html

Edited June 3, 2010 by fbara
added url

[Mike Prince]

To me, it's pretty cold if EVERYONE involved in an issue admits a mistake was made and we don't make an effort to correct that mistake because of some allegiance to a 'rule'. Rules change, every day, for many reasons. Not doing the right thing (again, after all parties involved agree a mistake was made), that's a shame.

To me, that's life . Why should baseball be any different? No rules were broken in this instance so there is nothing to change.

The effort to correct the mistake is to get it right the next time.

[Umpire in Chief]

The official word is out The call will not be reversed:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/2010-06-03-39564926_x.htm?csp=34sports&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+UsatodaycomMlbAl-TopStories+%28Sports+-+MLB+AL+-+Top+Stories%29

[BrianC14]

So watch - "in the best interest of the game", Selig will install even more video replays. Games will take even longer. MLB will charge ESPN, Fox, et. al. even more to televise games. Ticket prices will go up, Pay per View will increase, too.

Lovely, eh?

What a sorry excuse for a baseball Commissioner.

LEAVE THE GAME ALONE, SELIG, YOU CONTEMPTIBLE DIRTBAG.

[DirtyDawg]

Why does everyone always go to La Russa as the baseball expert?

[Big Red]

So watch - "in the best interest of the game", Selig will install even more video replays. Games will take even longer. MLB will charge ESPN, Fox, et. al. even more to televise games. Ticket prices will go up, Pay per View will increase, too.

Lovely, eh?

What a sorry excuse for a baseball Commissioner.

LEAVE THE GAME ALONE, SELIG, YOU CONTEMPTIBLE DIRTBAG.

+1, but I have a feeling it won't end there, especially considering he will no doubt see this as another opportunity to leave his "mark" on baseball before the interim-commissioner-for-life "retires." The remainder of Selig's comments are even more worrisome:

"As Jim Joyce said in his postgame comments, there is no dispute that last night's game should have ended differently. While the human element has always been an integral part of baseball, it is vital that mistakes on the field be addressed. Given last night's call and other recent events, I will examine our umpiring system, the expanded use of instant replay and all other related features. Before I announce any decisions, I will consult with all appropriate parties, including our two unions and the Special Committee for On-Field Matters, which consists of field managers, general managers, club owners and presidents."

Someone posted earlier that he stated, "I will examine our umpiring system regarding the expanded use of instant replay..." but above is the actual quote. Wonder if that exam by Dr. "Strangelove" Selig will include latex gloves.

Last time I saw references to a "Special Committee" the USSR was still around and I've noted previously how this "on-field committee" does not include any umpire reps, though is stacked w/ owners & presidents.

Too bad Selig can't be completely ROAD (though he conspicuously was on other issues during his "tenure")...his arrival never shoulda happened and his departure can't come soon enough.

[yawetag]

Why does everyone always go to La Russa as the baseball expert?

Even as a Cards fan, I was confused. My only thought is that Herzog wasn't available, so they went to the next name on the list. LaRussa's a lot easier to get a hold of.

[dumbdumb]

Sorry for this question at the end, but, for those of you in the know, why has Joyce not been picked as a crew chief? Does that Gossage mustache bother Jimmie Lee Solomon and Mike Port that bad? He worked the WS in 1999 and 2001 which is almost back to back. He has not returned since. Maybe now, with the way he just handled himself, they will consider him worthy, if one of the 4 people that might retire next year is a crew chief. What's the scoop here?

[Mr Umpire]

The Commissioner can change the call and has changed calls in the past. I've read over and over on this, and other, forums that the most important thing is getting the call right. Why is this any different? Joyce already admitted he made a mistake, so the right thing to do would be to overturn the call in deference to the spirit of the game and not hold so tight to the letter of rule (in this instance, so as to prevent anyone from responding saying we should have all calls changed in order to make everyone happy....).

Getting the rule call right. Judgment calls do not fall in that area.

[Umpire in Chief]

Dumbdumb, Interesting question. It may be politics, it may also be that he just doesn't want the position. In every walk of life there are folks who don't want the leadership role for a variety of reasons. Not saying this is the case with Joyce.

But just imagine the media s:censored:tstorm that would brew up if he were to be promoted next year to Chief. Although the mainstream media has been pretty kind to him, I bet that could change.

[ehawkins1]

Some people have been making Jim Joyce and Don Denkinger comparisons (Not here per say, but in other places), and here’s the thing, it’s been 25 years since Denkinger blew that call. If MLB umps have one truly epic gaffe every 25 years or so,( which equals four per century) that doesn’t strike me as such a bad track record really. It’s just part of the game’s human element...

[Big Red]

Some people have been making Jim Joyce and Don Denkinger comparisons (Not here per say, but in other places), and here’s the thing, it’s been 25 years since Denkinger blew that call. If MLB umps have one truly epic gaffe every 25 years or so,( which equals four per century) that doesn’t strike me as such a bad track record really. It’s just part of the game’s human element...

hawkins,

Very good points. As far as the comparison to Denkinger, one of the very first was from Joyce himself in his post-game news conference when he mentioned something about how he knew what Denkinger felt like. Then ESPN had Denkinger on most of the day yesterday.

Of course, it's a comparison that seems inevitable given the unique similarities...bang-bang play at 1st involving the pitcher covering, and the stakes: World Series in one, perfect game in another.

But, if there's something to be learned from it all, i.e.--avoiding such stupidity as the DJ giving out Don's address & the subsequent hate mail/death threats to him & his family (looks like Joyce has already encountered some of that) or how to handle a blown call; then compare away.

As the saying goes, "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

However, along the same line of thought, it's a shame that's why we are discussing Denkinger 12 yrs after his retirement...regardless of his esteemed career, that is his legacy. As Joyce said after yesterday's game, this is not what he wanted his 15 minutes to be and I feel for the man.

We all know the truth is he could get every call perfectly right the rest of his career, solve world hunger 10 years from now and the 10 o'clock lead-in would read...

"Today, a man named Jim Joyce solved world hunger. You may recall he was the Major League umpire who blew the call at first base in 2010 robbing a Detroit pitcher of a perfect game. Stay tuned for further details on his upcoming Nobel Peace Prize."

[LMSANS]

So there were no gaffs in the playoffs last year?:question1: