Galarraga's Perfe...1 Hitter

[th3]

I dont think the pitcher had control of the ball and thats what the ump saw..i know he didnt say that, but thats what i think

[Chance]

With the past couple weeks being filled with umpires in the news, this call will sure be on highlight reels for years to come. I dont think it would have been nearly as big as issue if there was nothing on the line, ie: no hitter, perfect game. It would just have been a kicked call, which happens as we all know. We all have to live with calls that we have booted but no doubt this one is personal for Jim. He changed history, took something away from a kid who may never have that opportunity again. I have seen Jims resume and no doubt he is one of the best the MLB has to offer. IMHO replay undermines all officiating. Yes our job is to get the call right but I think it takes away from the history of the game. This call with further push replay to be used more and in different ways other then the home run. Mistakes happen to everyone and I have all the respect in the world for the men in blue, but the media portrays us as deterrents to the game, only putting us in the spotlight for those calls missed. Whos knows what we will see next, will Terry Francona take a page from Bill Belichick and pull a red flag from his sock?

[Thunderheads]

Things get interesting AFTER the next batter comes up.

Cabrera won't let it go.... then after the game is over, 1/2 the Tigers team chase down Joyce as he's trying to leave the field, including Jim Leyland.

Brian, did you happen to see /hear Leyland after the game ?? He's nothing but a class act. He gave Jim Joyce nothing but props and he said/admitted he was yelling at him because it was emotional,.... but he said, ...that's the way it is and we need to move on....

[yawetag]

Joyces angle and distance were perfect to see the pitcher double clutch.

Do ANY of you think that the double clutch in any way influenced the call?

Joyce stated himself that he thought the runner beat the throw. He never mentioned the possible bobble, so I doubt it influenced the play.

[Thunderheads]

Guys, this is a great string of videos, including the audio of Joyce ...and ....Leylands comments a few vids down ...

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=8616789

[callstrikes]

Joyce stated himself that he thought the runner beat the throw. He never mentioned the possible bobble, so I doubt it influenced the play.

Mr. Joyce is a gentleman who took full responsibility for the call. Why would you doubt that it influenced the play? No Pro that I know of makes a call at first without first confirming control of the ball.Don"t get me wrong, I think he made the wrong call. I also think that if the call were made in the third inning of 5 to 1 game we wouldn't be talking about this, muchless doubting his state of mind, what he thought of the pitcher or what his positioning was.

If he follows his rotation tomorrow(Today) he will be shown the greatest repect by those pichers, catchers, and Jim Leyland, because they know he is one of the best.

On a personal note, we umpires represent the integrety and rules of baseball, whether we do coach pitch for free, rec ball for very little,or any level of ball.

When we put on the uniform or even post on an umpire message board, we need to forget that we are Johnnies dad, Cardinal fans, or what good players we were in High School. Let's be UMPIRES. We don't need to blindly support those who are wrong orfoolish, but try to learn and get better by starting with the mirror, instead of pointing fingers

[Mike Prince]

Balk Hater is only one of us to remotely see the play as it happened. Out of position? straightlined? Had it out for him? You are talking about one of the top two or three guys in the business. I am embarrassed by some of these responses. Joyces angle and distance were perfect to see the pitcher double clutch. He may make the same call 9 out of 10 times and the commentators would say "Tough luck, he didn't have control of the ball"

Everybody probably agrees that it was the wrong call, but not why it was wrong. It was wrong because it was the 27th out of a perfect game. Situational ethics, you bet! Make the obvious call......the ball beat the runner......he is always out..That is what people are asking us to do. Do ANY of you think that the double clutch in any way influenced the call? Do any of you check the mit at first before making your calls?

Mr Joyce was very gracious and fell on his sword. He offered no excuses. What is the excuse of you guys that question his integrety, positioning, etc. We will learn more about baseball umpiring and life in general, by following Mr. Joyces' example.

Wonder if you saw that Joyce is quoted as saying he kicked the call. If he saw the pitcher double clutch then why is he saying he blew it? Edit: I re-watched the video and there was no double clutch. the ball was firmly in the web and after the touch of first Galarraga opened his glove and the ball fell into the pocket. No bobble. I agree Joyce is a stand-up guy and his response is admirable but he makes no mention of a bobble or any other excuses.

Also consider that he never "sold" the call you are proposing that he made. The "best in the business" sell that call and at least signal the bobble of the ball with the safe.

Edited June 3, 2010 by bikerider
Watched video for another time.

[callstrikes]

I saw the play live and also saw the quotes. He blamed himself entirely and brought no other person or action into his apology. To bring the pitchers actions into the equation would have cheapened the whole process. A pro does not make a call at first without checking on possession of the ball, period. That said, it was the wrong call in that situation and he will have to live with it.

As far as selling the call, I honestly don't recall how demonstrative he is. Many of the guys are very basic with the e xception of big outs at home. All except Tim McClelland. I don't think he sells any call.

[BrianC14]

Brian, did you happen to see /hear Leyland after the game ?? He's nothing but a class act. He gave Jim Joyce nothing but props and he said/admitted he was yelling at him because it was emotional,.... but he said, ...that's the way it is and we need to move on....

Take a look at the YouTube video... first Leyland comes out to question Joyce right after the call. Fine. He's pretty level-headed there, just wanting to hear from Joyce on what he saw.

AFTER the game, we see Leyland, who's obviously been told of what the replay shows, and he (along with 1/2 dozen or more of Tiger players) is intercepting Joyce's path off the field, screaming bloody murder. He doesn't look too classy there, does he? Oh, I see - "it's emotional" ? And it wasn't emotional right after the call? Of course, the fans see what Leyland is doing, and then they start screaming for Joyce's head as he's headed up the tunnel.

As for the media.... I refuse to give them a pass - - cripes, some of the talking morons on every morning TV talk show are calling it "robbery" - - nevermind that 99.9% of these idiots wouldn't know a baseball from a bow & arrow, but they've got air time and a hot mic, and so they're calling Joyce's call "robbery". Give me a (*&@*& break. Then there's some yutz on CNN discussing "situational ethics" (as I see Mr. Callstrikes using that term in this forum)....

Well, here, I'll say it: Situational ethics my ass.

If you call that same play "Safe" in the 5th, then the same play is the same call in the 9th, or 14th, or 23rd. As evidence of "situational ethics" being total BULLSPIT, I point out the umpire's (Pinelli) call of strike 3 in Don Larsen's perfect world series game.... at the time he claimed "the batter had an obligation to swing at the pitch if it was close". BULLSPIT. That "third strike" pitch was nowhere near close - the guy was simply justifying a poor call - - -apparently, because of the sake of "the situation". Well, la dee freakin' da! SINCE WHEN DO WE UMPIRES GET TO INSERT OURSELVES (AND OUR SENSE OF 'SITUATIONAL ETHICS') INTO A GAME?

Here's a recap of Larsen's WS perfect game as it ended... note the "situational ethics" not only for Larsen's perfect game, but also the clear "situational ethics" of the home plate umpire:

With two outs in the ninth inning, Larsen faced pinch hitter Dale Mitchell, a .311 career hitter. Throwing fastballs, Larsen got ahead in the count at 1-2 On his 97th pitch, a called strike, Larsen caught Mitchell looking for the 27th and last out. Mitchell complained that the pitch was high and outside to home plate umpire Babe Pinelli (who was working his final game behind the plate, retiring after the season). Mickey Mantle later admitted that the pitch looked high from his center-field angle. Dodgers outfielder Duke Snider said, "I think he (Pinelli) wanted to go out with a no-hitter," adding, "But there were 26 outs before that and he got them all. You can't take anything away from him."

Joyce made what he believed was the right call at the moment. That's what he does for a living. That's what we umpires of amateur baseball do for fun and some beer money. This business of "situational ethics" is horseSH*#.

I'm done with this - it makes me physically ill to hear of it anymore.

Edited June 3, 2010 by BrianC14

[BrianC14]

i thought he bobbled the ball in his glove it was a tough call

Then you'd have made the wrong call for a different reason. The ball wasn't bobbled.

[Thunderheads]

Take a look at the YouTube video... there's Leyland, intercepting Joyce's path off the field, screaming bloody murder. He doesn't look too classy there, and the fans see that, and so of course, they start screaming for Joyce's head.

Brian, I live in the Detroit area, I saw the game on Fox Sports Detroit as it happened, ...I know what you're referring to, obviously.

Question still stands: Did you see the video of Leyland AFTER THE GAME from the clubhouse? That is what I'm referring to. Also, ...Joyce himself said ... (paraphrase) " Leyland had something to say and I had to let him say it rightfully so. The Tigers were angry and they had a right to be.

Leyland, in the video , in the clubhouse, gave Joyce nothing but props and accolades, and admitted he was yelling and admitted it was emotionally charged.

It takes a man to admit things, right and wrong, both Joyce and Leyland have done this , and showed it

[Mr Umpire]

Why he may have missed the call does matter. Whether it be straightlined or out of position or a bobble. The reason is so others don't do the same thing. These guys are on TV for all to see. This helps all of us since we don't have recordings of our games everytime we go out there. We need this and need to use it when available.

Yes, they check for control and I believe he did have control. He has made no reference to a bobble. He just said he missed the call. Plain and simple. Reading more into this than he says is useless. Speculating about the commentators comments is useless as well.

We are not bashing him. Most of us don't do that. Those of us who umpire don't do that. We discuss it. We try to figure out why it happened. We want to know why it happened. We do this to not do it ourselves. Their level means we can see their mechanics since they have the most recent ones and are on TV.

[BrianC14]

Brian, I live in the Detroit area, I saw the game on Fox Sports Detroit as it happened, ...I know what you're referring to, obviously.

Question still stands: Did you see the video of Leyland AFTER THE GAME from the clubhouse? That is what I'm referring to. Also, ...Joyce himself said ... (paraphrase) " Leyland had something to say and I had to let him say it rightfully so. The Tigers were angry and they had a right to be.

Leyland, in the video , in the clubhouse, gave Joyce nothing but props and accolades, and admitted he was yelling and admitted it was emotionally charged.

It takes a man to admit things, right and wrong, both Joyce and Leyland have done this , and showed it

I have you down as a Tiger 'homer', OK? There's nothing wrong with that, but I think you should admit to some level of bias for anything from that.

What Leyland did after the game was WRONG. That's just my opinion. What he should have been doing was pulling his players away from Joyce and the other umpires, and trying to restore some decorum. Instead, he's out there leading (inciting?) the protesting. As the fans see this, they are just going to see something's up, and that's when they start piling on.

What he then says in the locker room for the TV cameras is too late. Honestly, I hope that MLB changes crews for tonight's game, but I doubt that Selig has that much sense. I doubt that the fans will be as magnanimous as Leyland tried to be (after the fact).

[ehawkins1]

I think this sums it up really well, and this should be the graciousness shared between umpires and players/managers all the time:

...after first base umpire Jim Joyce blew the call on what would have been the 27th out, as fans booed and the announcers went crazy, what did pitcher Armando Galarraga do? He smiled, readjusted his cap and headed back to the mound to finish the game. It brings tears to our eyes just thinking about it.

Other people yelled and screamed. Detroit Tigers manager Jim Leyland (and several players) gave the umpire the business. But not Galarraga. He showed some disbelief at the call and then went right back to doing his job, earning himself a 28-out perfect game. Even after the game Galarraga didn't display any hard feelings. "I feel sad" is what he said. About Joyce, he said, "He feels so bad -- really bad ... I told him, 'Nobody's perfect.'"

What a display of grace by Galarraga.

"I just cost that kid a perfect game," Joyce said afterward. "I thought he beat the throw. I was convinced he beat the throw, until I saw the replay."

"I don't blame them a bit or anything that was said. I would've said it myself if I had been Galarraga. I would've been the first person in my face, and he never said a word to me," said Joyce.

Such graciousness, but not only by Galarraga but by the umpire. In admitting he was wrong.

[Thunderheads]

I have you down as a Tiger 'homer', OK? There's nothing wrong with that, but I think you should admit to some level of bias for anything from that.

I live in Detroit, I guess I'd have to be a homer, but no, ...not OK. I would have said the same thing if this were a .....I don't know,....Phillies game or something ...doesn't matter.

What Leyland did after the game was WRONG. That's just my opinion. What he should have been doing was pulling his players away from Joyce and the other umpires, and trying to restore some decorum. Instead, he's out there leading (inciting?) the protesting. As the fans see this, they are just going to see something's up, and that's when they start piling on.

I don't think I've said that the 'field' actions were proper, did I ? I agree w/ the above ...but emotions got too high I guess...

What he then says in the locker room for the TV cameras is too late. Honestly, I hope that MLB changes crews for tonight's game, but I doubt that Selig has that much sense. I doubt that the fans will be as magnanimous as Leyland tried to be (after the fact).

I disagree ... you've never acted 'out of character' or 'wrong' ...then came back and re-evaluated the sitch? Come on Brian, we all have. That's where it takes being grown up enough to show it and admit it. It's never too late to say your sorry in some way shape or form, is it?

It will be interesting to hear what goes on at Comerica today :nod:

[BrianC14]

I live in Detroit, I guess I'd have to be a homer, but no, ...not OK. I would have said the same thing if this were a .....I don't know,....Phillies game or something ...doesn't matter.

I don't think I've said that the 'field' actions were proper, did I ? I agree w/ the above ...but emotions got too high I guess...

I disagree ... you've never acted 'out of character' or 'wrong' ...then came back and re-evaluated the sitch? Come on Brian, we all have. That's where it takes being grown up enough to show it and admit it. It's never too late to say your sorry in some way shape or form, is it?

It will be interesting to hear what goes on at Comerica today

First of all, this isn't about me. Sure, I've said and did things that I wish I hadn't. But I don't normally have a bank of microphones and national print and video media to follow me around afterward so I can show everyone what a great guy I 'really' am after I pop off. That changes how I would approach things.

This is about your defense of the home-team manager who DOES ONE THING on the field, and then SAYS ANOTHER THING for the media. You'll note that Leyland's comments, (which I do appreciate) came after Joyce admitted his mistake. Leyland's actions on the field came AFTER he questioned Joyce during the game. His actions speak louder than his after-words. That situation with chasing down Joyce could have turned very ugly, very fast. Leyland showed no leadership there, IMO, and that's what bothers me most about it.

Edited June 3, 2010 by BrianC14

[Thunderheads]

First of all, this isn't about me. Sure, I've said and did things that I wish I hadn't. But I don't normally have a bank of microphones and national print and video media to follow me around afterward so I can show everyone what a great guy I 'really' am after I pop off. That changes how I would approach things.

Sorry about that, no it's not about you, nor did I intend it to be ...it was a generic comment ..."you" in general, anyone, me, Tom, Jim, Pete, anyone

This is about your defense of the home-team manager who DOES ONE THING on the field, and then SAYS ANOTHER THING for the media. You'll note that Leyland's comments, (which I do appreciate) came after Joyce admitted his mistake.

Wrong. Leyland's post game clubhouse interview was not after Joyce admitted his mistake. Leyland says, "I know Jim, and he's going to look at it and he'll realize he was wrong "......not defending his feild actions, but his comments were before JJ admitted it ....

Leyland's actions on the field came AFTER he questioned Joyce during the game. His actions speak louder than his after-words. That situation with chasing down Joyce could have turned very ugly, very fast. Leyland showed no leadership there, IMO, and that's what bothers me most about it.

I can see that for sure ....

[fbara]

If he follows his rotation tomorrow(Today) he will be shown the greatest repect by those pichers, catchers, and Jim Leyland, because they know he is one of the best.

On a personal note, we umpires represent the integrety and rules of baseball, whether we do coach pitch for free, rec ball for very little,or any level of ball. When we put on the uniform or even post on an umpire message board, we need to forget that we are Johnnies dad, Cardinal fans, or what good players we were in High School. Let's be UMPIRES. We don't need to blindly support those who are wrong or foolish, but try to learn and get better by starting with the mirror, instead of pointing fingers

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5246454

Joyce will take his spot behind the plate today and Galarraga will walk out to hand him the lineup card.

"Tigers manager Jim Leyland said MLB gave Joyce the option to not work Thursday's game between Detroit and Cleveland, but Joyce chose to stick with his job behind the plate. Leyland added that Galarraga would present the lineup card and shake hands with Joyce at home plate before the afternoon game."

Selig should do the right thing in this situation and change the call, giving the perfect game to Galarraga. This is not something that should be done lightly or often, but in this case it's warranted.

Joyce also indicated his family is receiving a lot of flak right now. That's not right. It would be nice if there was a way us umpires could send him an email and show him our support. Anyone know how to do that?

frank

Edited June 3, 2010 by fbara
added quote from story.

[baseball5150]

IMHO ... anyone who attacks a man's family for something that happens at work, doesnt deserve to have an opinion ... his wife and kids didnt make that call, Jim did ...

I dont understand people sometimes, why attack the family??

[Mr Umpire]

Selig should do the right thing in this situation and change the call, giving the perfect game to Galarraga. This is not something that should be done lightly or often, but in this case it's warranted.

frank

No. It happened. The game should be left alone. Life goes on. Too bad. It sucks but it is what happened. I disagree b/c where does it end. Also, if they do that, what is done with the batter's batting average? Take an infield hit away from him? What if this sparks him on to break DiMaggio's hit record but he falls 1 game short b/c this hit is taken away?

Too many ramifications can occur by doing that.

Edited June 3, 2010 by Mr Umpire

[HokieUmp]

I don't think I've said that the 'field' actions were proper, did I ? I agree w/ the above ...but emotions got too high I guess...

Doesn't excuse it. I'm going full on with Brian on this one.

This is like a political/new commentator (think: Ann Coulter or Keith Olbermann, that way I don't get a bias charge thrown at me) who says something inCREDibly inflammatory or nearly outright slanderous. It gets all the coverage in the world, and then they can sell more books, subscriptions to websites, whatever. Then, 3-4 days later, a small "we're sorry" comes from the network, or a page 11 "Corrections" notice is printed.

Damage, as they say, is done.

Emotions or not, Leyland is supposed to be the grown-up there.

And it's that kind of crap that lets fans at a ballpark do some of the stupid s--t they do, and filters down to rec ball. Already had a "daddy" coach come out to the parking lot after a game (a freaking Mustang game!) to try and give my partner more crap, and then turns on me when I tell him to get lost, and stay out of our "locker room." Calling me endearing terms like "f-----g pu--y" - the kind of stuff that would earn him an ass-beating in a bar.

So, sorry, but Leyland especially doesn't get a pass at all.

I disagree ... you've never acted 'out of character' or 'wrong' ...then came back and re-evaluated the sitch? Come on Brian, we all have. That's where it takes being grown up enough to show it and admit it. It's never too late to say your sorry in some way shape or form, is it?

Yes, sadly, sometimes it just is.

[fbara]

No. It happened. The game should be left alone. Life goes on. Too bad. It sucks but it is what happened. I disagree b/c where does it end. Also, if they do that, what is done with the batter's batting average? Take an infield hit away from him? What if this sparks him on to break DiMaggio's hit record but he falls 1 game short b/c this hit is taken away?

Too many ramifications can occur by doing that.

I respectfully disagree with you. MLB opened the door to changing the game when they allowed replays of HR's. Once they did that, they allowed the calls and decisions of the on-field umps to be changed. Plus, the MLB has a history of overturning ump calls as well as retroactively changing the outcome of games (granted, this is not a normal occurrence, but it has happened several times), so it would be following historical precedent.

frank

[Mike Prince]

OBR 9,02 (a) Any umpire's decision which involves judgement, such as, but not limited to, whether a batted ball is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. No player, manager, coach or substitute shall object to any such judgment decision.

MLB should leave the call alone. The umpire made a judgement call that he later said was wrong. It is unfortunate but it happens and is part of the game. Disregard the circumstances and associated emotions/public outcry and follow the rule book.

Another slant on this - from the player perspectives:

Cabrera: "I can't believe I threw a bit behind the pitcher, that was a great catch, glad he didn't drop it"

Galarraga: "Oh SH*#. Tell me this isn't happening"

Donald: "Why the $%@# am I running down the line so hard?"

Edited June 3, 2010 by bikerider

[fbara]

OBR 9,02 (a) Any umpire's decision which involves judgement, such as, but not limited to, whether a batted ball is fair or foul, whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, or whether a runner is safe or out, is final. No player, manager, coach or substitute shall object to any such judgment decision.

MLB should leave the call alone. The umpire made a judgement call that he later said was wrong. It is unfortunate but it happens and is part of the game. Disregard the circumstances and associated emotions/public outcry and follow the rule book.

The Commissioner can change the call and has changed calls in the past. I've read over and over on this, and other, forums that the most important thing is getting the call right. Why is this any different? Joyce already admitted he made a mistake, so the right thing to do would be to overturn the call in deference to the spirit of the game and not hold so tight to the letter of rule (in this instance, so as to prevent anyone from responding saying we should have all calls changed in order to make everyone happy....).

[kcfan102]

I saw this on one of the articles on MLB.com

If MLB would simply over rule Joyce's call to give Galarraga a perfect game and put him in the history books, why not erase a couple of George Brett's at bats and let him have a .400 season? I'm sure there was a borderline pitch called for a third strike that he otherwise may have hit.

C'mon now. It's as simple as this:

Joyce missed a judgment call. It's a simple judgment call (out/safe). It sucks that it was in this situation, it's terrible the way the Detroit Tigers acted after the game. It is what it is. The minute MLB starts overruling one out/safe or fair/foul call, this game will become a travesty. Managers will be wanting every little banger to be replayed. And you know what? I could do the job of a Major League umpire if that happens. We all could. Go out there, look good, make a call and if you're wrong, who cares right?

These guys are the best in the world. Without replay, a second look, or super slow-mo they get the calls right the very vast majority of the time. Replay on HRs and fair/foul in trouble areas are way different from simple outs and safes at bases. And they only do replay after conferring with each other and the decision comes from the crew chief or the umpire on the play correct?

Replay shouldn't be used, and MLB shouldn't give Galarraga a perfect game because... Jason Donald was rules safe at first. End of story.