UMPHUB.com

[Haid D' Salaami]

The site looks good. I don't agree with the Advantage/Disadvantage video and the philosophical stuff at all. Just get into the best position and call what you see.

He says that you should reward a fielder for a good play if it's a bang/bang play because he "Did his job" by making a nice play. Also says that on a fair/foul decision as PU on the 3B line you should give the benefit to the batter because he "beat" the pitcher.

Some of this stuff is a good way to get fired.. give the benifit to the batter cause he beat the pitcher... come on.

[SAB_UIC_TX]

I liked the catcher video, if you've never caught there are some subtle tactics you can pick up on from seeing them like this. Interesting mechanic on steal of third, but bottom line getting angle is more important that distance. Advantage/disadvantage, that sounds like trouble to me, bang bang play with F6 bobbling the ball means he didn't do his job but still got the throw there in time to be an out. See what you call and call what you see. This to me is anticipating the outcome of a play.

I want to see how often they update content before I give them my business. 25% of the content up and available right now was showed in the test drive area. Unless they put this up 3 months ago.....just sayin

[JaxRolo]

I liked the catcher video, if you've never caught there are some subtle tactics you can pick up on from seeing them like this. Interesting mechanic on steal of third, but bottom line getting angle is more important that distance. Advantage/disadvantage, that sounds like trouble to me, bang bang play with F6 bobbling the ball means he didn't do his job but still got the throw there in time to be an out. See what you call and call what you see. This to me is anticipating the outcome of a play.

I want to see how often they update content before I give them my business. 25% of the content up and available right now was showed in the test drive area. Unless they put this up 3 months ago.....just sayin

+1

I signed up today and already watched all the videos.

I sent them and e-mail and asked them if they are going to cover rules and interpretations. I will let you know what I find out.

[mstaylor]

I liked the knee pop video, the catcher one was decent. The covering third was interesting but I don't know that I will change without trying it on the field. I didn't like the advantage video at all. I will save my money for a while.

The videos are well done, that I like. The percentage of content that I agree with isn't high enough yet.

[Jeff C.]

I just watched the covering third video. I actually started doing the mechanic last year. I noticed that on steals of third, I tended to go straight to the bag, which of course is a terrible angle. It's pretty much a hope and prayer that you get it right. I was struggling, so I just started doing this mechanic of moving on a straight line toward the plate. It absolutely opened up the view! Now, I'm not saying it's end all to be all, but for me it works.

[cbiesecker]

Being new to umpiring, I wasn't sure how to take the Advantage/Disadvantage video. Was this something that seasoned umpires truly did? Based on the responses that I've seen so far, I take it that on a bang/bang play it's best to just umpire the call itself and not take into consideration how the bang/bang played originated at all.

[mstaylor]

Take the advantage video with a grain of salt. At one time that was the prevailing attitude, and to some extent it could still be used today, but on the whole call it as you see it. Now absolutely go with it if you are working one man.

[Haid D' Salaami]

Take the advantage video with a grain of salt. At one time that was the prevailing attitude, and to some extent it could still be used today, but on the whole call it as you see it. Now absolutely go with it if you are working one man.

agreed... I am not gonna cal someone out cause he made a nice play or had some hustle....with all the game videos around.. you can get in trouble. many of yrs ago that was ok.. now I think it is different.

[dumbdumb]

Take the advantage video with a grain of salt. At one time that was the prevailing attitude, and to some extent it could still be used today, but on the whole call it as you see it. Now absolutely go with it if you are working one man.

Now come on MST. You haven't mentioned comparing apples to apples here on that steal of third although I know you thought the same thing. Let's see that first slide and tag from both positions. Then lets see that 2nd slide and tag from both positions.

I want the exact same slide and tag in relation to the bag for the positioning explanations, not 1 slide and tag in relation to the bag for one umpire position, and another slide and tag in relation to the bag for another position.

Remember how we all talk about angles in umpiring. These two plays were like night and day to go along with the explanation on the steal of third.

[mstaylor]

Take the advantage video with a grain of salt. At one time that was the prevailing attitude, and to some extent it could still be used today, but on the whole call it as you see it. Now absolutely go with it if you are working one man.

Now come on MST. You haven't mentioned comparing apples to apples here on that steal of third although I know you thought the same thing. Let's see that first slide and tag from both positions. Then lets see that 2nd slide and tag from both positions.

I want the exact same slide and tag in relation to the bag for the positioning explanations, not 1 slide and tag in relation to the bag for one umpire position, and another slide and tag in relation to the bag for another position.

Remember how we all talk about angles in umpiring. These two plays were like night and day to go along with the explanation on the steal of third.

Yes, I did think the same thing. Show the same slide from both angles.

[Haid D' Salaami]

The site looks good. I don't agree with the Advantage/Disadvantage video and the philosophical stuff at all. Just get into the best position and call what you see.

He says that you should reward a fielder for a good play if it's a bang/bang play because he "Did his job" by making a nice play. Also says that on a fair/foul decision as PU on the 3B line you should give the benefit to the batter because he "beat" the pitcher.

I agree with you. But I also love that he decided to actually put this conversation on video. This conversation and other ones just like it occur between partners all the time. The man has Omaha experience so I am interested to hear what he has to say.

I think that at the time he had Omaha experience this might have been the cause.. but with the invention of HD TV I don't believe we can umpire like this.

[Umpire in Chief]

Take the advantage video with a grain of salt. At one time that was the prevailing attitude, and to some extent it could still be used today, but on the whole call it as you see it. Now absolutely go with it if you are working one man.

agreed... I am not gonna cal someone out cause he made a nice play or had some hustle....with all the game videos around.. you can get in trouble. many of yrs ago that was ok.. now I think it is different.

A bit off topic. ... Believe it or not there was a middle school system (Thankfully I haven't worked for in a few years) that told our assignor that they wanted us to and I believe their phrase was 'on close plays reward the team or player made a good play or demonstrated extra effort.' but this MS league was pure awful. It probably manifested itself more as punish the team or player who jacked the play up the most.

[johnnyg08]

That's just a horrible philosophy to teach new umpires. They may not understand the spirit of that line of thinking and get themselves in huge trouble.

[dumbdumb]

Take the advantage video with a grain of salt. At one time that was the prevailing attitude, and to some extent it could still be used today, but on the whole call it as you see it. Now absolutely go with it if you are working one man.

And you know the one and only thing to like about one man=no one to get help from. (I just had to say that).

Very good analysis on the first 2 sentences. If the theory is in fact any good anymore, IMHO it "could" as you say only be (thought of) for plays where everyone knows that the call is so infinitesimally close (what coaches would call a tie that can go either way) that you give that diving to the right behind the bag Brooks Robinson play at third on the throw for the force, or on the tag play if the ball beats runner and the fielder does the proper tag down to the ground and stays there (ie-not stop at his knee) and doesn't pull the tag up 5 feet before the runner gets there.

We saw where Jeter got the umpire in trouble by telling the reporters (yes Jeter knows how to work the press, and fans and make himself look like an angel) the umpire said the ball beat him to the base, when in fact the umpire told him he was tagged. Jeter broke the rule of getting caught for an out at third. Probably got fined, just like giving up a home run on an 0-2 pitch, either by the team or the kangaroo court. This was what Lenny Dykstra used to do years ago. He would dog a play and make an out, and then in his next at bat he would ground out again, but he would slide into first making it look like he was hustling to get the crowd back on his side (false hustle). Anyone knows you get to first base quicker by running through the bag and not sliding when no type of tag play on a throw off the bag is involved. What a "jetbag".

[UMP45]

Isn't Casey starting to deep?

[zm1283]

The site looks good. I don't agree with the Advantage/Disadvantage video and the philosophical stuff at all. Just get into the best position and call what you see.

He says that you should reward a fielder for a good play if it's a bang/bang play because he "Did his job" by making a nice play. Also says that on a fair/foul decision as <acronym title='plate umpire'>PU</acronym> on the 3B line you should give the benefit to the batter because he "beat" the pitcher.

+1

It must be one of those "Advanced Mechanics" I don't agree with.

But I am signing up and giving it a try.

This isn't an advanced mechanic. An advanced mechanic would be something like taking plays at third from foul territory as PU on a rotation in the 3-man system. This stuff is just one guy's outdated opinion if you ask me.

[Haid D' Salaami]

The site looks good. I don't agree with the Advantage/Disadvantage video and the philosophical stuff at all. Just get into the best position and call what you see.

He says that you should reward a fielder for a good play if it's a bang/bang play because he "Did his job" by making a nice play. Also says that on a fair/foul decision as <acronym title='plate umpire'>PU</acronym> on the 3B line you should give the benefit to the batter because he "beat" the pitcher.

+1

It must be one of those "Advanced Mechanics" I don't agree with.

But I am signing up and giving it a try.

This isn't an advanced mechanic. An advanced mechanic would be something like taking plays at third from foul territory as PU on a rotation in the 3-man system. This stuff is just one guy's outdated opinion if you ask me.

+100

[UmpHub]

Hi everyone -

I'm Jonathan Davis, the Founder of UmpHub.com. Thanks for all of your comments about our new website - keep them coming!

I appreciated the specific feedback I've read about the play at 3rd base, the tricks catcher's use and especially Advantage/Disadvantage.

One thing I'd like to point out: unlike other DVD's you've purchased or camps you've attended where people tell you what to do because it's in a book or is the "flavor of the month" for a mechanic, our focus at UmpHub is to capture the stories of senior umpires and share them with you.

A guy like Tom Jenkins has forgotten more about umpiring than most of us will ever hope to learn (true story: he actually knows the DH rule better than anyone you've ever met). Some of his techniques might not work for you, some of his stories may rub you the wrong way. What I'm hoping will happen when you watch them is that you'll be challenged to think about situations differently.

In the case of Advantage/Disadvantage, Tom is sharing something that most guys his age won't tell you they do (even though just about everyone does it). Can you use Advantage/Disadvantage in a middle school or high school game? Absolutely!

The thing to keep in mind: if a shortstop goes into the hole, fields a ball backhanded and comes up throwing to a bang-bang play at first base: NO ONE is going to argue with you if you call the BR out. Why? There was a great play defensively and the shortstop earned it.

To re-cap: there are tons of DVD's and Camps you could attend to be told the textbook way to do things. I've bought them and attended them and I'm a better official for having done so. UmpHub's goal is to be different. We're going to focus on the things you aren't going to hear or see anywhere else. Lively discussion at U-E or the other forums is great - it means we're accomplishing what we set out to do!

We're going to have new content every week (@SAB_UIC_TX: we launched last week). This week you'll learn about a technique to make arguing your case in a tough call down the line easier. We'll also be rolling out actual game footage of strange and interesting things starting in February 2012.

Lastly, Warren asked me if there is a PROMO CODE that I would be willing to provide for the readers of Umpire-Empire and the answer is sure! To get 25% off of a one year membership (it actually makes the cost of 1 year the same as a 6 month membership) enter: 25OFF1 at check-out.

Thanks again for your thoughts and discussion everyone. Strikes and Outs!

Sincerely,

Jonathan Davis

Austin, TX

jd@UmpHub.com

[Umpire in Chief]

Thanks Jonathan!

[johnnyg08]

Hi everyone -

I'm Jonathan Davis, the Founder of UmpHub.com. Thanks for all of your comments about our new website - keep them coming!

I appreciated the specific feedback I've read about the play at 3rd base, the tricks catcher's use and especially Advantage/Disadvantage.

One thing I'd like to point out: unlike other DVD's you've purchased or camps you've attended where people tell you what to do because it's in a book or is the "flavor of the month" for a mechanic, our focus at UmpHub is to capture the stories of senior umpires and share them with you.

A guy like Tom Jenkins has forgotten more about umpiring than most of us will ever hope to learn (true story: he actually knows the DH rule better than anyone you've ever met). Some of his techniques might not work for you, some of his stories may rub you the wrong way. What I'm hoping will happen when you watch them is that you'll be challenged to think about situations differently.

In the case of Advantage/Disadvantage, Tom is sharing something that most guys his age won't tell you they do (even though just about everyone does it). Can you use Advantage/Disadvantage in a middle school or high school game? Absolutely!

The thing to keep in mind: if a shortstop goes into the hole, fields a ball backhanded and comes up throwing to a bang-bang play at first base: NO ONE is going to argue with you if you call the BR out. Why? There was a great play defensively and the shortstop earned it.

To re-cap: there are tons of DVD's and Camps you could attend to be told the textbook way to do things. I've bought them and attended them and I'm a better official for having done so. UmpHub's goal is to be different. We're going to focus on the things you aren't going to hear or see anywhere else. Lively discussion at U-E or the other forums is great - it means we're accomplishing what we set out to do!

We're going to have new content every week (@SAB_UIC_TX: we launched last week). This week you'll learn about a technique to make arguing your case in a tough call down the line easier. We'll also be rolling out actual game footage of strange and interesting things starting in February 2012.

Lastly, Warren asked me if there is a PROMO CODE that I would be willing to provide for the readers of Umpire-Empire and the answer is sure! To get 25% off of a one year membership (it actually makes the cost of 1 year the same as a 6 month membership) enter: 25OFF1 at check-out.

Thanks again for your thoughts and discussion everyone. Strikes and Outs!

Sincerely,

Jonathan Davis

Austin, TX

jd@UmpHub.com

Wow, that's fantastic...thanks for the promo code!

[yawetag]

Jonathan, thanks a lot for taking the time to come here and reply to our critiques of your site. It means a lot to me, as a consumer and an umpire, to see owners of products take an interest in how their product is being perceived and either answer to the opinion or, in some cases, change it to fix the problem.

One question: How long is the promo code good for? I'm interested in checking out the site, but may have to wait to make the purchase. However, I understand that promos are "while supplies last" or "for a limited time," and I don't want to take advantage of your gracious offer.

[UmpTTS43]

Just listened to the Advantage/Disadvantage video. I think it's a bunch of bunk. It used to have it's place but not anymore. Call the play as you see it. He talks about a fielder hustling to make a great play. What about the BR that's busting his hump to beat it out? Isn't he hustling and "doing his job"? Runner stealing and the throw is there in time, back in the day his philosophy would work. Nowadays that won't fly. No taggie, no outie. There are cameras everywhere and a missed call will recognized. Often, video of missed calls in college games are sent to the conference coordinator. I would hate to see what my assigner would say if I made the "accepted" call due to advantage/disadvantage. My favorite arguement for types of plays he was discussing is when a fielder misplays a ball, recovers and throws to have a banger out. Most will say to reward the offense because the defense screwed up. I say the defense didn't screw up. I say the defender, although initially misplaying the ball, made a great recovery and throw and completed the out. In pro ball the advantage/disadvantage philosophy is quickly dying. Same in college ball where more teams are utilizing cameras of some sort. Most, if not all, games I work are at least streamed online and the video quality is improving at an incredible rate.

Others may have their own view and opinions on this topic but I believe this video should come with a disclaimer - Use at Your Own Risk

[UmpTTS43]

Finished watching the rest of the test drive videos. Very nice. Nice info on the steal of 3rd and the discussion with the catcher. I think this could be a good resource for a lot of umpires. Best of luck to the UmpHub staff.

[sdix00]

Just listened to the Advantage/Disadvantage video. I think it's a bunch of bunk. It used to have it's place but not anymore. Call the play as you see it. He talks about a fielder hustling to make a great play. What about the BR that's busting his hump to beat it out? Isn't he hustling and "doing his job"? Runner stealing and the throw is there in time, back in the day his philosophy would work. Nowadays that won't fly. No taggie, no outie. There are cameras everywhere and a missed call will recognized. Often, video of missed calls in college games are sent to the conference coordinator. I would hate to see what my assigner would say if I made the "accepted" call due to advantage/disadvantage. My favorite arguement for types of plays he was discussing is when a fielder misplays a ball, recovers and throws to have a banger out. Most will say to reward the offense because the defense screwed up. I say the defense didn't screw up. I say the defender, although initially misplaying the ball, made a great recovery and throw and completed the out. In pro ball the advantage/disadvantage philosophy is quickly dying. Same in college ball where more teams are utilizing cameras of some sort. Most, if not all, games I work are at least streamed online and the video quality is improving at an incredible rate.

Others may have their own view and opinions on this topic but I believe this video should come with a disclaimer - Use at Your Own Risk

<OffTopic>

If you don't mind, post one of your game streams. It would be fun to watch a U-E member on the TeeVee.

</OffTopic>

[UmpTTS43]

Link moved to new topic in Free for All

For sdix00