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mstaylor

By mstaylor
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AZump78

AZump78

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I found it entertaining when students attending PBUC in '10 relayed stories about they had to take time to cover some mechanics that wasn't covered at Harry's. Just saying. I know Harry's is a friend of this site, and a good institution, but to say that his school focuses more on mechanics than Evans is bunk. I haven't attended Harry's but talking with those that have attended both schools have an almost unanimous opinion on where to go, including current MLB umpires that are Harry's grads.

Unless you've attended both, don't make comparisons.

So let me just make sure I understand your post accurately:

-Last year at PBUC the instructors had to go over some mechanics, for the sake of the Harry's guys.

-Of those who attend both schools, "almost all" say Evans is "the place to go"

-There are MLB umpires that you know of that went to Harry's but now advocate going elsewhere.

If those are incorrect than please correct me.

As for #1, at PBUC they teach you the PBUC way. Not Harrys or Evans way. So I am sure some things were covered that were different from what was taught at either school.

#2-I am sure of the people you spoke to, that could be true, but I am pretty sure that the claim that is "almost unanimous" is a bit of an exaggeration. How many guys do you even know that have gone to both schools that you gathered this info from? I know a LOT of umpires and I know literally one person that went to both schools.

#3-I highly, highly doubt this one. But if you care to cite the source I am sure it would carry a little more weight....

I am NOT NOT NOT trying to get into a p*ssing contest on which school is better here. I just think if you throw these types of statements out there for the world to read you should be at least questioned on their accuracy.

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PBUC's The Umpire School graduated its inaugural class on Sunday morning (Feb. 5th) with notification to 14 students to return in March for the PBUC Eval Course, And just as I had fully expected, the

AZump78
AZump78

If you are reading this and thinking of going-GO!

Codyw09
Codyw09

I am enrolled in Harrys, thanks to Warren and Hunter for helping find the right school for me.

UmpTTS43

UmpTTS43

Posted
Posted

I found it entertaining when students attending PBUC in '10 relayed stories about they had to take time to cover some mechanics that wasn't covered at Harry's. Just saying. I know Harry's is a friend of this site, and a good institution, but to say that his school focuses more on mechanics than Evans is bunk. I haven't attended Harry's but talking with those that have attended both schools have an almost unanimous opinion on where to go, including current MLB umpires that are Harry's grads.

Unless you've attended both, don't make comparisons.

So let me just make sure I understand your post accurately:

-Last year at PBUC the instructors had to go over some mechanics, for the sake of the Harry's guys.

-Of those who attend both schools, "almost all" say Evans is "the place to go"

-There are MLB umpires that you know of that went to Harry's but now advocate going elsewhere.

If those are incorrect than please correct me.

As for #1, at PBUC they teach you the PBUC way. Not Harrys or Evans way. So I am sure some things were covered that were different from what was taught at either school.

#2-I am sure of the people you spoke to, that could be true, but I am pretty sure that the claim that is "almost unanimous" is a bit of an exaggeration. How many guys do you even know that have gone to both schools that you gathered this info from? I know a LOT of umpires and I know literally one person that went to both schools.

#3-I highly, highly doubt this one. But if you care to cite the source I am sure it would carry a little more weight....

I am NOT NOT NOT trying to get into a p*ssing contest on which school is better here. I just think if you throw these types of statements out there for the world to read you should be at least questioned on their accuracy.

I find it amusing that some can post "facts" about one school without knowing all of the details and it seems to slide on without any questions, but when I decide to post a rebutal it's an issue. No problem. In order to humor you.

#1 FACT Although some mechaincs were changed from both schools to the PBUC system, some students had no idea concerning certain philosophies/terminology.

#2 FACT 8 out of 9 umpires I know that attended both choose one over the other. One in the majority even got his PBUC invite after graduating from Harry's. That is almost unanimous in my book.

#3 FACT I am the source. I have witnessed and been engaged in discussions with MLB umpires that have given their opinion.

If you ask me what school I believe is the one to go to, to become a complete umpire and work for a job, my answer would be Evans. Now that PBUC is starting, I tell guys that are trying to get in to go there.

Haid D' Salaami

Haid D' Salaami

Posted
Posted

I found it entertaining when students attending PBUC in '10 relayed stories about they had to take time to cover some mechanics that wasn't covered at Harry's. Just saying. I know Harry's is a friend of this site, and a good institution, but to say that his school focuses more on mechanics than Evans is bunk. I haven't attended Harry's but talking with those that have attended both schools have an almost unanimous opinion on where to go, including current MLB umpires that are Harry's grads.

Unless you've attended both, don't make comparisons.

So let me just make sure I understand your post accurately:

-Last year at PBUC the instructors had to go over some mechanics, for the sake of the Harry's guys.

-Of those who attend both schools, "almost all" say Evans is "the place to go"

-There are MLB umpires that you know of that went to Harry's but now advocate going elsewhere.

If those are incorrect than please correct me.

As for #1, at PBUC they teach you the PBUC way. Not Harrys or Evans way. So I am sure some things were covered that were different from what was taught at either school.

#2-I am sure of the people you spoke to, that could be true, but I am pretty sure that the claim that is "almost unanimous" is a bit of an exaggeration. How many guys do you even know that have gone to both schools that you gathered this info from? I know a LOT of umpires and I know literally one person that went to both schools.

#3-I highly, highly doubt this one. But if you care to cite the source I am sure it would carry a little more weight....

I am NOT NOT NOT trying to get into a p*ssing contest on which school is better here. I just think if you throw these types of statements out there for the world to read you should be at least questioned on their accuracy.

1..PBUC fixed both schools... with the pickoff and the double play footwork...

2.. I do know of 1 guy.. yep just one who went to both. in back to back years.. all he says is Jim's is a great place for a Umpire who is brand new..and Harry's is for a guy who has been around.. and Jim's focuses on the rules... ( 700 questions) and Harrys' is more for Mechanics...

The saying is go to jim's to learn the rules and Harry's to learn to Umpires.. ( meaning mechanics)...

Weak mechanics will keep a Umpire off the field more than anything.. cause weak mechanics make you look weak.

AZump78

AZump78

Posted
Posted

I found it entertaining when students attending PBUC in '10 relayed stories about they had to take time to cover some mechanics that wasn't covered at Harry's. Just saying. I know Harry's is a friend of this site, and a good institution, but to say that his school focuses more on mechanics than Evans is bunk. I haven't attended Harry's but talking with those that have attended both schools have an almost unanimous opinion on where to go, including current MLB umpires that are Harry's grads.

Unless you've attended both, don't make comparisons.

So let me just make sure I understand your post accurately:

-Last year at PBUC the instructors had to go over some mechanics, for the sake of the Harry's guys.

-Of those who attend both schools, "almost all" say Evans is "the place to go"

-There are MLB umpires that you know of that went to Harry's but now advocate going elsewhere.

If those are incorrect than please correct me.

As for #1, at PBUC they teach you the PBUC way. Not Harrys or Evans way. So I am sure some things were covered that were different from what was taught at either school.

#2-I am sure of the people you spoke to, that could be true, but I am pretty sure that the claim that is "almost unanimous" is a bit of an exaggeration. How many guys do you even know that have gone to both schools that you gathered this info from? I know a LOT of umpires and I know literally one person that went to both schools.

#3-I highly, highly doubt this one. But if you care to cite the source I am sure it would carry a little more weight....

I am NOT NOT NOT trying to get into a p*ssing contest on which school is better here. I just think if you throw these types of statements out there for the world to read you should be at least questioned on their accuracy.

I find it amusing that some can post "facts" about one school without knowing all of the details and it seems to slide on without any questions, but when I decide to post a rebutal it's an issue. No problem. In order to humor you.

#1 FACT Although some mechaincs were changed from both schools to the PBUC system, some students had no idea concerning certain philosophies/terminology.

#2 FACT 8 out of 9 umpires I know that attended both choose one over the other. One in the majority even got his PBUC invite after graduating from Harry's. That is almost unanimous in my book.

#3 FACT I am the source. I have witnessed and been engaged in discussions with MLB umpires that have given their opinion.

If you ask me what school I believe is the one to go to, to become a complete umpire and work for a job, my answer would be Evans. Now that PBUC is starting, I tell guys that are trying to get in to go there.

WOW-You know NINE GUYS that had to school twice AND chose a different school the second time around? That is amazing!

Just out of curiosity, I would love to know out of those nine:

How many went to Harry's first, didn't get picked, and then to Evans and made it to PBUC? (and vice-versa)

Also, how many chose as their "recommended school" the one that sent them to PBUC over the one that said they weren't qualified?

mstaylor

mstaylor

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I know guys that have attended one or the other, none that attended both. I have seen these guys work when they return and I think the rules at Evans/mechanics at Harry's is fairly accurate. I also know that grads from both schools come back damn fine umpires. I don't know all the instructors at PBUC but I have under quite a few of them and they will run an excellent school. I would imagine the rules will be a little less because it is a week less in instruction.

UmpTTS43

UmpTTS43

Posted
Posted

I believe it is a 6-3 split. In talking with those guys, we discussed the pros and cons of each school and had an opinion on what the better one was for them regardless of how they got to PBUC. I'm sure Harry's is a very good institution, but I have opinions like others. I am biased, I only went to one school.

Others expressed their opinions, I expressed mine. I have worked and do work with Harry guys and Jim guys. In the end we are all working in an avocation that we love. Once you get to the point where you are proficient and happy where you are at, it doesn't matter if you are an alum of Yale or Harvard.

mstaylor

mstaylor

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I believe it is a 6-3 split. In talking with those guys, we discussed the pros and cons of each school and had an opinion on what the better one was for them regardless of how they got to PBUC. I'm sure Harry's is a very good institution, but I have opinions like others. I am biased, I only went to one school.

Others expressed their opinions, I expressed mine. I have worked and do work with Harry guys and Jim guys. In the end we are all working in an avocation that we love. Once you get to the point where you are proficient and happy where you are at, it doesn't matter if you are an alum of Yale or Harvard.

Agreed, the overall quality of umpire coming out of either school is going to be pretty good. I have yet to be able to watch a MiLB umpire and tell which school they attended. You can if they are instructors at a clinic, their terminology is different.

Haid D' Salaami

Haid D' Salaami

Posted
Posted

I believe it is a 6-3 split. In talking with those guys, we discussed the pros and cons of each school and had an opinion on what the better one was for them regardless of how they got to <acronym title='he Professional Baseball Umpire Corp.'>PBUC</acronym>. I'm sure Harry's is a very good institution, but I have opinions like others. I am biased, I only went to one school.

Others expressed their opinions, I expressed mine. I have worked and do work with Harry guys and Jim guys. In the end we are all working in an avocation that we love. Once you get to the point where you are proficient and happy where you are at, it doesn't matter if you are an alum of Yale or Harvard.

Agreed, the overall quality of umpire coming out of either school is going to be pretty good. I have yet to be able to watch a <acronym title='Minor League Baseball '>MiLB</acronym> umpire and tell which school they attended. You can if they are instructors at a clinic, their terminology is different.

I can usually tell.

mstaylor

mstaylor

Posted
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Posted

I guess you can tell from some of their basework, there are subtle differences. In a clinnic situation you will hear certain terms that only Jim teaches and others that Harry teaches. That may blur when we start seeing guys coming out of the new school because there is a mix of both at PBUC.

Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted

One of our own (not sure he's posted yet) ....but, ..my primary partner for the past 2 seasons is at Evans right now. He's excited, and I'm looking forward to his report-backs during his stay......

Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted

And ...

The first report came in last night! :)

Having a great time. Said they went over some plate-work and position A (no runners on) ...my buddy said, he's already a better umpire! Cool stuff!

Said Jim is a great guy, and talks about his school, and the talk about the differences between his and others, and what others say about them. Interesting.

So far, so good ... he's really excited, as he should be!

Kevin Finnerty

Kevin Finnerty

Posted
Posted

My assigner went to Brinkman's school.

I was lucky enough to have Joe Brinkman observe one of my games last year along with Darryl Cousins, whose son was one of my catchers. I had a pretty good game and got a very favorable reaction from both of them.

Brinkman sports a hairstyle that's so long, he resembles an aging rocker more than an aging umpire. When we met before the game, Cousins had to tell me who he was.

UmpJeff

UmpJeff

Posted
Posted

Damn! All this talk of pro school and I'm seriously jonsing to go. Of course, being 50 years young, I won't be vying for a job but that wouldn't prevent me from getting the most out of the school and myself. I'm probably going to go in 2014. Just have to decide which one. I'm going to the week-long Evans camp this year between Christmas and New Years. So, I'm really looking forward to that. But, as I said, I will be going to a 5-week in 2014. I'm REALLY looking forward to that!!

  • 4 weeks later...
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cookie

Posted
Posted

PBUC's The Umpire School graduated its inaugural class on Sunday morning (Feb. 5th) with notification to 14 students to return in March for the PBUC Eval Course, And just as I had fully expected, the experience was first rate. "Spags (Darren Spagnardi) and his crew" made certain of that!

With their "controlled games" presentation on the field, they were on TOP of all possible mechanics instruction and evaluation - ranging from standard plays to those infrequentently occuring (not 3rd world) plays such as BI, CI, RLV, Balks, & overthrows into DBT requiring correct application of penalties and/or awards. For example, whereas I might have umpired 2 or 3 catcher INT during my games last year, I observed at least 75 to 80 of them during the field instruction (with a couple thrown at me during my reps).

Jorge (Bauza) and Dusty (Dellinger), lead rules & mechanics instructors, presented during AM classtime the OBR rule book in a logical, organized manner - doing away with reading the rule book consecutively from Rules 1 thru 9. Each theme/topic from the rule book would eventually make its way into that day's field mechanics which they followed up with after the rulebook instruction. However, I must admit that 3 1/2 hours of class instruction required a few trips to the readily available coffee urn for refill.

Two other important themes threaded thier ways thru the school instruction/experience: the integrity of baseball and the conditioning of umpires. Larry (Reveal), lead curricullum instructor, made it clear what umpires are fundamentally about: upholding the integrity of baseball and in no small part through the display of their own integrity on the field. The emphasis on integrity became apparent to all of us students one morning after testing when he made forcefully clear (at the loudest decibal) to everyone in attendance that that integrity had been violated by someone looking at another's test answers! To Larry, umpires are indeed what Washington Post columnist George Will wrote a couple of years ago: "Umpires are baseball's judicial branch" and we had better live up to it.The other component threading its way through the instruction was medical coordinator Mark (Stubby) Stubblefield's constant insistence on umpires' need to be vigilant about their conditioning - those injuries, ailments, etc, that always arise from umpiring, Through instruction at class gatherings and assistance to the students' ailments/injuries, Stubby empasized that PBUC wants to keep you physically in the game, and that can only be done through regular and proper conditioning.

All of this - housing, food service, class instruction, fieldwork (including cage practice), and absolutely more (for example, umpire camradery, etc.) - takes place all in one setting: The Vero Beach Sports Village (the former Dodger spring training grounds), and in the Florida weather where we did not have one rainy day throughout the 4 weeks.

As for me, completing this pro school 4-week course at age 64 has been satisfying in and of itself as my own personal achievement,,,

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BT_Blue

BT_Blue

Posted
Posted

Gives me things to think about as well. For years I have wanted to attend Evans. But learning about TUS this past year plus has really made me thing. I also like the fact that it is 4 weeks rather than 5. I too am looking at 2014 at the earliest which would put me around 35 years old. Personally I am not looking to go pro. But the experience would definitely help in terms of advancing in my local units and getting back into college ball where I was before I made my move north.

Lets also say that all of Jim Kirk's posts from when he was down in Vero were most informative and the fact that he and his fabulous company work with and support TUS definitely carry some weight in my mind.

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