Pro School

[Tony B]

Not that I think anybody here would do it, but unfortunately I've seen it first hand ---

DO NOT TRY TO OUT SMART ANY INSTRUCTOR!

DO NOT ASK "WHAT IF" QUESTIONS!

DO NOT EVEN APPEAR TO BE DISENGAGED FROM THE INSTRUCTION!

DO NOT TRY TO ONE BETTER ANY INSTRUCTOR

DO NOT BE A BROWN NOSE

DO NOT ASSOCIATE WITH ANYBODY WHO DOES ANY OF THE ABOVE. YOU COULD BE SEEN AS GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION.

DO IDENTIFY THE TOP PEOPLE IN YOUR GROUPS AND WORK COLLABORATIVELY WITH THEM, STUDYING, PRACTICING MECHANICS, ANYTHING.

Instructors love when they are walking down the hall late night hearing guys practicing their calls "He's out!" , "Safe!", "He's off the bag!", "Strike" ...

[AZump78]

"DO IDENTIFY THE TOP PEOPLE IN YOUR GROUPS AND WORK COLLABORATIVELY WITH THEM"

That is a good one.

[Codyw09]

Does any one know when and where the PBUC eval course is and how long it will run for? I have been asked to work russ matt(florida) in early march but Im pretty sure they're about the same time.

[Haid D' Salaami]

Does any one know when and where the PBUC eval course is and how long it will run for? I have been asked to work russ matt(florida) in early march but Im pretty sure they're about the same time.

PBUC eval course is in Vero Beach, FL from Mar7-18th...PBUC does not do anything with Russ Mat..

You can always ancel on Russ Matt... PBUC is not Guaranteed .. i saw a guy lose his spot with 2 days to go...

[cookie]

Headed to the new PBUC school next Sunday!

Those of you going use these next few days while you can to ask questions. We have guys here who have gone both to Harry's & Evans, both for the fun of it and for a job and even a few guys who have had stints in MiLB.

Astrosdawg07, I will see you there on Sunday the 8th, also.

Any of you who have been at the other 2 umpire schools (Wendlestedt or JEAPU), were you (or did you encounter others) over 50 doing the school thing, older umpires who were there not to get into the pro's (obviously because of their ages), but instead for the sheer joy of learning? I'm an oldster and only have been umpiring for the last 6 years, but this is something I've been wanting to do since day one (2006) when I started; so I'm now taking advantage of my recent retirement from teaching (12/31/11) and going for it! AND I expect to put out no less intensity and enthusiasm toward it than the younger umpires who will be looking for pro jobs! My legs are still in good shape as well as my health (knock on wood), so I either do this thing now or never.

I'd appreciate any comments/tips from some of you who have done the umpire schooling in your 50's plus, or you younger umpires who encountered older umpires doing the training with you...

[johnnyg08]

Headed to the new PBUC school next Sunday!

Those of you going use these next few days while you can to ask questions. We have guys here who have gone both to Harry's & Evans, both for the fun of it and for a job and even a few guys who have had stints in MiLB.

Astrosdawg07, I will see you there on Sunday the 8th, also.

Any of you who have been at the other 2 umpire schools (Wendlestedt or JEAPU), were you (or did you encounter others) over 50 doing the school thing, older umpires who were there not to get into the pro's (obviously because of their ages), but instead for the sheer joy of learning? I'm an oldster and only have been umpiring for the last 6 years, but this is something I've been wanting to do since day one (2006) when I started; so I'm now taking advantage of my recent retirement from teaching (12/31/11) and going for it! AND I expect to put out no less intensity and enthusiasm toward it than the younger umpires who will be looking for pro jobs! My legs are still in good shape as well as my health (knock on wood), so I either do this thing now or never.

I'd appreciate any comments/tips from some of you who have done the umpire schooling in your 50's plus, or you younger umpires who encountered older umpires doing the training with you...

First of all, congratulations on your retirement! Second, go to Evans when you go. Jim's class this year has a 75 yr old man in his 5wk class as well as many others probably in your age bracket. Go for it, if you love baseball and you love umpiring go to Evans' school Jim and his staff are extremely professional and friendly. You will not regret going to Evans school. Have fun!

[dumbdumb]

Headed to the new PBUC school next Sunday!

Those of you going use these next few days while you can to ask questions. We have guys here who have gone both to Harry's & Evans, both for the fun of it and for a job and even a few guys who have had stints in MiLB.

Astrosdawg07, I will see you there on Sunday the 8th, also.

Any of you who have been at the other 2 umpire schools (Wendlestedt or JEAPU), were you (or did you encounter others) over 50 doing the school thing, older umpires who were there not to get into the pro's (obviously because of their ages), but instead for the sheer joy of learning? I'm an oldster and only have been umpiring for the last 6 years, but this is something I've been wanting to do since day one (2006) when I started; so I'm now taking advantage of my recent retirement from teaching (12/31/11) and going for it! AND I expect to put out no less intensity and enthusiasm toward it than the younger umpires who will be looking for pro jobs! My legs are still in good shape as well as my health (knock on wood), so I either do this thing now or never.

I'd appreciate any comments/tips from some of you who have done the umpire schooling in your 50's plus, or you younger umpires who encountered older umpires doing the training with you...

Darn

52 and out. Must be nice. Congratulations.

Cookie

Either school is super from what I have read.

As you well know, you are never too old to learn.

If you really want to learn as many of the safes and outs (ha) of umpiring, from my reading of all the info out there, this is the way to go. Soak everything at the school up without the pressure of needing a job. This experience should help you immensely, not only from the educational standpoint, but also from the perspective of advancement opportunities, if you so desire, in your area (no guarantee here-you still have to apply the schooling to the field). Once again, as an educator and being able to take this from a learning perspective is unique. I just don't think anyone out there, if given the chance, would not want to attend one of the schools from everything I have read, job or no job.

Now on the other hand, you are one of the few who will be allowed to go listen and talk (mainly listen) to the instructors without the worry of procuring a job. You will not be penalized for not doing safes and outs all night long (wasn't that a song). Apparently, from past reading, both schools have instructors gather at the local watering hole to tell stories. I'm sure Jim can tell a million Earl Weaver and Billy Martin stories. I am sure Harry and Hunter can tell a million Tommy Lasorda, Gene Mauch, Whitey Herzog stories. You may also learn how to handle some situations from their past experiences, or at least how they handled them back then, versus how they want these situations handled now, as you learn them in the class.

Those of you who want a job, do not do the above.

Good luck and enjoy that Florida weather.

When you come back, don't be one of "those" guys towards your local group, just put everything you learned into practice but do things the way your local group wants things done. It will be easy to adapt. If anyone asks you what they taught at the school, by all means tell them what they taught, as well as "why" they think that way, but do not "push" the school thinking on anyone. Let them approach you and ask you. Do not go home and preach the gospel of umpire school to your local group or put on airs. Go with the flow and help out as needed but do not, and I repeat do not, give the attitude that the school is the my way or the highway, the be all or end all, of everything about umpiring.

Soak it up and learn.

Then

Come back here and tell us what you learned (of course we get this for free) of your experiences and what they are teaching and "why" (I am sure you taught science. who, what , when, where, why of everything). That way, we can put to use, some of the things they are teaching and "why" they think what they teach works best when on the field (doesn't have to mean they are right, just why they think their way is the best way and the theory behind it). i.e. In a 3 man( although you will be learning 2 man), why they go to the umpire on the first baseline on a left handed batter, versus going to the infield guy in the middle, etc, etc. Maybe they will mention something about this if they mention things about moving up to a 3 man in AA.

Go and enjoy the both the school and the Florida weather. Good luck.

[cookie]

johny08 and dumbdumb,

Thanks for the comments and to further clarify: I am already financially and psychologically committed to the new PBUC Umpire School in Vero Beach, Fl Jan8 thru Feb 5th. That's where I'm heading...

[mstaylor]

We have six or seven guys in our group that have been to school, one to a school that no longer exists, several to Harry's and several to Evan's. The lastest went to Evan's and partnered with Mazz last summer and will be returning to PBUC this year. Another guy was a gnat's hair from getting a job but chose not to return a second year as Harry suggested.

As a group we have embraced their acomplishments and gleaned as much knowledge from them as possible. We have advanced our group much farther by having access to their knowledge. As far as having a big head, I have more problems with giuys that haven't been to school.

[dumbdumb]

johny08 and dumbdumb,

Thanks for the comments and to further clarify: I am already financially and psychologically committed to the new PBUC Umpire School in Vero Beach, Fl Jan8 thru Feb 5th. That's where I'm heading...

Oops, sorry not to include "The Umpire School" down in Vero, whose instructors make up the PBUC.

Here is an old SI Vault article about one of the old schools from 1984, with one of your instructors mentioned in the article. Since he is from Chesapeake, VA, UIC should know him or at least know of him. If UIC does in fact know him and can communicate with him every now and then, it should help UIC with his umpiring and other guys from that area if he has the time to help.

Always good to have an English teacher that is the Curriculum coordinator.

http://sportsillustr...836/1/index.htm

The Chief instructor you will meet also worked (not necessarily as partners) in the same League (Midwest in 1981) with the Curriculum coordinator from old Sporting News umpire cards.

[cookie]

dumbdumb,

I'm reading the 1984 SI Vault article you mentioned and my eye caught this line:

"...Brinkman's Florida school attracted an assortment of candidates. Most were in their early 20s or 30s, though there was also 60-year-old Silvio Morreale of Poughkeepsie, N.Y., who said he'd come south "to fulfill a dream."

Coincidentally, Poughkeepsie is only 16 miles away from where I live, so I did a people search for Silvio Morreale, hoping to get in touch with him about his experience. But alas, it was not to be. The information provided stated that he had passed away in 1994 at 71.

Also, I didn't catch on right away by what you meant when you wrote "52 and out." Oh, my age age is a decade + more than that. I'm rivaling Silvio (God rest his soul)...

[mstaylor]

My assigner went to Brinkman's school.

[dumbdumb]

dumbdumb,

I'm reading the 1984 SI Vault article you mentioned and my eye caught this line:

"...Brinkman's Florida school attracted an assortment of candidates. Most were in their early 20s or 30s, though there was also 60-year-old Silvio Morreale of Poughkeepsie, N.Y., who said he'd come south "to fulfill a dream."

Coincidentally, Poughkeepsie is only 16 miles away from where I live, so I did a people search for Silvio Morreale, hoping to get in touch with him about his experience. But alas, it was not to be. The information provided stated that he had passed away in 1994 at 71.

Also, I didn't catch on right away by what you meant when you wrote "52 and out." Oh, my age age is a decade + more than that. I'm rivaling Silvio (God rest his soul)...

Glad you are going no matter your age. I just said that phrase thinking maybe you were able to get lucky and get out after 30 years which would make you 52-53 if you started at 22-23. Nothing negative was meant at all. I could care less about your age as long as you are trying to learn things about umpiring to help improve yourself.

Oh yeh, isn't it nice to know you don't have to get up and go back to your regular job this week?

[dumbdumb]

My assigner went to Brinkman's school.

Was it strictly the Brinkman school or had it changed over to Brinkman/Froemming when he went. Not that it matters one hill of beans, but it seems like I have read that the school went from Kinnamon to Brinkman to Brinkman/Froemming to Evans.

[Haid D' Salaami]

Headed to the new PBUC school next Sunday!

Those of you going use these next few days while you can to ask questions. We have guys here who have gone both to Harry's & Evans, both for the fun of it and for a job and even a few guys who have had stints in MiLB.

Astrosdawg07, I will see you there on Sunday the 8th, also.

Any of you who have been at the other 2 umpire schools (Wendlestedt or JEAPU), were you (or did you encounter others) over 50 doing the school thing, older umpires who were there not to get into the pro's (obviously because of their ages), but instead for the sheer joy of learning? I'm an oldster and only have been umpiring for the last 6 years, but this is something I've been wanting to do since day one (2006) when I started; so I'm now taking advantage of my recent retirement from teaching (12/31/11) and going for it! AND I expect to put out no less intensity and enthusiasm toward it than the younger umpires who will be looking for pro jobs! My legs are still in good shape as well as my health (knock on wood), so I either do this thing now or never.

I'd appreciate any comments/tips from some of you who have done the umpire schooling in your 50's plus, or you younger umpires who encountered older umpires doing the training with you...

First of all, congratulations on your retirement! Second, go to Evans when you go. Jim's class this year has a 75 yr old man in his 5wk class as well as many others probably in your age bracket. Go for it, if you love baseball and you love umpiring go to Evans' school Jim and his staff are extremely professional and friendly. You will not regret going to Evans school. Have fun!

Just cause Evans has a guy.. that umpired when Babe Ruth played... doesnt mean you can't go to Harry's and learn even more..

Harry's focuses more on Mechanics and Evans more on rule.. Harry's says.. if you can apply the rule on the field that is more important than knowing the rule..

Mechanics will make or break and Umpire.. I was trying out to work Non Conference games at an SEC school.. the assignor says. wow your mechanics are really great..he never said.. wow you really know the rule book well...LOL

[AZump78]

Yea but screw up a rule on that SEC field and I can guar-on-tee you will never see that field again!

The guy I sat next to for 5 weeks solid at Harry's was 65 and had never umpired a day in his life. There was another guy in his 50s who likewise was a green as could be. They got all the same attention and instruction as the 100+ Salaami's that were there.

The only school that makes little to no sense for you to attend as a "seasoned" citizen would be PBUC, for obvious reasons. However, I am sure they would be glad to cash the check if you decide that is where you want to go.

[cookie]

Yea but screw up a rule on that SEC field and I can guar-on-tee you will never see that field again!

The guy I sat next to for 5 weeks solid at Harry's was 65 and had never umpired a day in his life. There was another guy in his 50s who likewise was a green as could be. They got all the same attention and instruction as the 100+ Salaami's that were there.

The only school that makes little to no sense for you to attend as a "seasoned" citizen would be PBUC, for obvious reasons. However, I am sure they would be glad to cash the check if you decide that is where you want to go.

Though I believe that both the Wendelstedt and Jim Evans schools are wonderful schools to attend, I think you're mistaken about the PBUC school. I had the opportunity in early December to attend an umpires' clinic in SC and meet several of the PBUC umpires who were there providing expert instruction over the weekend. They will also be the instructors at The Umpire School. I spoke personally about my concerns with Dusty Dellinger - PBUC Field Instructor who provided me with a very reassuring understanding of the mission of the new PBUC school, and that as a "seasoned citizen", I would find a welcoming atmosphere as an older student at the school. Similar assurances were spoken personally to me over the phone in mid-December by Darren Sgagnardi - Field Instructor and Andy Shultz - Administrator.

Also, since it is the first year of the school, the number of students enrolled might be significantly less than the other two schools, thus providing for a lot more individual attention.

Well, I guess it's all wait and see..

P.S. When I was a kid in LL (years ago), I played on the Dodgers. It's going to be kind of nostalgic to be at the old Dodger spring training grounds.

[AZump78]

I am sure you are right. Spags and crew will take good care of you I'm sure. Dodgertown is nice and I am sure you will learn a ton wherever you go!

Best of luck and congrats on making the decision to go to a school (any school!). It will open a lot of doors in your umpiring career.

[UmpTTS43]

I found it entertaining when students attending PBUC in '10 relayed stories about they had to take time to cover some mechanics that wasn't covered at Harry's. Just saying. I know Harry's is a friend of this site, and a good institution, but to say that his school focuses more on mechanics than Evans is bunk. I haven't attended Harry's but talking with those that have attended both schools have an almost unanimous opinion on where to go, including current MLB umpires that are Harry's grads.

Unless you've attended both, don't make comparisons.

[mstaylor]

My assigner went to Brinkman's school.

Was it strictly the Brinkman school or had it changed over to Brinkman/Froemming when he went. Not that it matters one hill of beans, but it seems like I have read that the school went from Kinnamon to Brinkman to Brinkman/Froemming to Evans.

Brinkman/Froemming. We had two guys go the same year but the second died shortly after that.

[Haid D' Salaami]

I found it entertaining when students attending PBUC in '10 relayed stories about they had to take time to cover some mechanics that wasn't covered at Harry's. Just saying. I know Harry's is a friend of this site, and a good institution, but to say that his school focuses more on mechanics than Evans is bunk. I haven't attended Harry's but talking with those that have attended both schools have an almost unanimous opinion on where to go, including current MLB umpires that are Harry's grads.

Unless you've attended both, don't make comparisons.

I have a really good buddy who went to Jim's in 2010 and then Harry's in 2011.. He likes Harry's better..

and the only difference in mechanics is the double play footwork.. I like Jim's on the 1st base side..and Harry's for the 3rd base side..

oh and the way the call a check swing.." Yes, (pointing at the batter) come and and say "he went while signialing the strike...

harry's check swing "yes he did, then stand and signal the swing".. that is about it...

[dumbdumb]

Although it is in it's infancy, everyone might as well start mentioning the 3 schools. You might as well start telling us about the instructors and what they will teach concerning the rules and mechanics at "The Umpire School" compared to Harry's and Jim's. Those that have delt with anyone at the new school can chime in about how well they think the instruction will be for both the rules and mechanics. I would imagine that the total number going to PBUC will be split by 3 now instead of 2. Big difference no matter how you slice it. However, if you are the best as someone might say, you only need 1 opening to get in, the same with MLB.

[johnnyg08]

I found it entertaining when students attending PBUC in '10 relayed stories about they had to take time to cover some mechanics that wasn't covered at Harry's. Just saying. I know Harry's is a friend of this site, and a good institution, but to say that his school focuses more on mechanics than Evans is bunk. I haven't attended Harry's but talking with those that have attended both schools have an almost unanimous opinion on where to go, including current MLB umpires that are Harry's grads.

Unless you've attended both, don't make comparisons.

I have a really good buddy who went to Jim's in 2010 and then Harry's in 2011.. He likes Harry's better..

and the only difference in mechanics is the double play footwork.. I like Jim's on the 1st base side..and Harry's for the 3rd base side..

oh and the way the call a check swing.." Yes, (pointing at the batter) come and and say "he went while signialing the strike...

harry's check swing "yes he did, then stand and signal the swing".. that is about it...

Can you please talk a bit more about the double play footwork differences between the schools? What is different?

[Haid D' Salaami]

I found it entertaining when students attending PBUC in '10 relayed stories about they had to take time to cover some mechanics that wasn't covered at Harry's. Just saying. I know Harry's is a friend of this site, and a good institution, but to say that his school focuses more on mechanics than Evans is bunk. I haven't attended Harry's but talking with those that have attended both schools have an almost unanimous opinion on where to go, including current MLB umpires that are Harry's grads.

Unless you've attended both, don't make comparisons.

I have a really good buddy who went to Jim's in 2010 and then Harry's in 2011.. He likes Harry's better..

and the only difference in mechanics is the double play footwork.. I like Jim's on the 1st base side..and Harry's for the 3rd base side..

oh and the way the call a check swing.." Yes, (pointing at the batter) come and and say "he went while signialing the strike...

harry's check swing "yes he did, then stand and signal the swing".. that is about it...

Can you please talk a bit more about the double play footwork differences between the schools? What is different?

Jim's is a Step up and face the ball...i.e. if the ball is hit to the SS you would step with your right foot and open to the ball..

Harry's is a step toward the mid point of the 45' and 1st base, then as the ball is passing you you spin/ turn toward the ball ( keeping your chest toward the ball) and you keep moving, till the fielder shows you which base his is throwign to... Harry's way is to always anticapate the play going to 1st....until the players shows you different..

Like i said I do like Harry's way on the 3rd base side, cause you really get across the infield fast... both ways are effective and work.

[Umpire in Chief]

I found it entertaining when students attending PBUC in '10 relayed stories about they had to take time to cover some mechanics that wasn't covered at Harry's. Just saying. I know Harry's is a friend of this site, and a good institution, but to say that his school focuses more on mechanics than Evans is bunk. I haven't attended Harry's but talking with those that have attended both schools have an almost unanimous opinion on where to go, including current MLB umpires that are Harry's grads.

Unless you've attended both, don't make comparisons.

It is my understanding, and Mr. Salami you probably have a better perspective/experience to comment on this, that yes, PBUC does cover some mechanics issues with guys, but not exclusively Wendelstedt ones. They are teaching the PBUC way.