Poll: U3K Mechanics

[mstaylor]

I have much respect for Harry and his school, and I rarely question him but I don't like that mechanic. The single arm pointing to the right just doesn't look good. I'm not saying it is wrong, just not my preference.

[Kevin Finnerty]

We agree once again!

I can't see myself doing that one. I'm comfortable with the verbal and the no-catch/safe signal. If that becomes the accepted mechanic, I'll do it, but it's not so I won't---yet.

[SAB_UIC_TX]

But all im saying is giving the safe mechanic, and signaling the third strike, then if the catcher touches the BR right away, your given 3 mechanics in about 2.6 sec... way too much... is all im saying..

Now as for what Harry's is teaching...

"No Catch".. and extend your right arm out the side palm open, indicating a no catch... if the ball goes way back to the backstop, no signal is needed..

Harry's is trying to make it simple.. K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid..LOL and if you only make the minimum movements you as a Umpire will look better.

PBUC is teaching the same way.

Is this the mechanic for PU or BU?

[SAB_UIC_TX]

I learned this mechanic from Evans, call the strike, verbalize 'no catch' or 'ball on the ground', give the safe mechanic or point to the ground.

Personally I call/signal the strike, point to the ground and verbalize "NO catch". I feel the verbal is important and here's why, with younger kids they all take off on strike 3 no matter what, what are you teaching them by saying nothing and letting them throw the ball all over the diamond, same if you give no signal. Why let them throw it around the diamond and possibly give up runs when the Batter is out.

[LMSANS]

I learned this mechanic from Evans, call the strike, verbalize 'no catch' or 'ball on the ground', give the safe mechanic or point to the ground.

Personally I call/signal the strike, point to the ground and verbalize "NO catch". I feel the verbal is important and here's why, with younger kids they all take off on strike 3 no matter what, what are you teaching them by saying nothing and letting them throw the ball all over the diamond, same if you give no signal. Why let them throw it around the diamond and possibly give up runs when the Batter is out.

Why are you saying "no catch" if the batter is out? :shrug:

[Haid D' Salaami]

I learned this mechanic from Evans, call the strike, verbalize 'no catch' or 'ball on the ground', give the safe mechanic or point to the ground.

Personally I call/signal the strike, point to the ground and verbalize "NO catch". I feel the verbal is important and here's why, with younger kids they all take off on strike 3 no matter what, what are you teaching them by saying nothing and letting them throw the ball all over the diamond, same if you give no signal. Why let them throw it around the diamond and possibly give up runs when the Batter is out.

All that I'm saying is.. that is there too many signals in a very short time..think about it..swing and miss..

1. Signal strike

2."no catch" with a safe signal

3. Then maybe a out mechanic if the batter is tagged right there.

think 3 different arm mechanics in about 2.38 sec...

[Haid D' Salaami]

Most D3K happen when the batter fully swings or checks his swing. On rare occation you have the called strike that F2 just drops. If it's a called strike, signal and vocalize the third strike, then "no catch" with safe mechanic. With a check swing senario, if you have batter going, point with appropriate hand, "yes he went" or "yes" then safe mechanic with "no catch". If you don't have him going, it is probably in your best interest to go to your partner before anyone asks. If your partner has him going then signal/vocalize third strike, give the safe mechanic with "no catch". If the batter makes a full swing, all you need to do is give the safe mechanic with "no catch".

This is what is being taught at school and at the top college clinics: signal 3rd strike if needed, use the safe mechanic with palms open facing down, and vocalize "no catch".

Mechanics have changed and are tweeked over the years. Above is the currently recognized mechanic in this situation.

I have heard some say that players and coaches misunderstood what was said. A} not your problem B} if umpires would adopt the same current accepted mechanics, coaches and players would know what the call is C} not your problem

What Top college clinics are you talking about..

Mid America teaches the way I'm describing..

Music City the same..

International the same

Advanced clinic in Houston the same...

LOL

[Haid D' Salaami]

But all im saying is giving the safe mechanic, and signaling the third strike, then if the catcher touches the BR right away, your given 3 mechanics in about 2.6 sec... way too much... is all im saying..

Now as for what Harry's is teaching...

"No Catch".. and extend your right arm out the side palm open, indicating a no catch... if the ball goes way back to the backstop, no signal is needed..

Harry's is trying to make it simple.. K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid..LOL and if you only make the minimum movements you as a Umpire will look better.

PBUC is teaching the same way.

Is this the mechanic for PU or BU?

PU

Evans tries to make things hard sometimes....

just like on the check swing mechanic, but the PU thought he went.. evans way.. " yes, stand up and then say "he went"

harrys.. "yes he did".. pretty simple to me..

BTW way I went to a Evans Clinic...LOL

and I had a partner who went to Evans so I got to learn from him, and Im pretty good buddies with 2 instructors..LOL

...

[Richvee]

I learned this mechanic from Evans, call the strike, verbalize 'no catch' or 'ball on the ground', give the safe mechanic or point to the ground.

Personally I call/signal the strike, point to the ground and verbalize "NO catch". I feel the verbal is important and here's why, with younger kids they all take off on strike 3 no matter what, what are you teaching them by saying nothing and letting them throw the ball all over the diamond, same if you give no signal. Why let them throw it around the diamond and possibly give up runs when the Batter is out.

All that I'm saying is.. that is there too many signals in a very short time..think about it..swing and miss..

1. Signal strike

2."no catch" with a safe signal

3. Then maybe a out mechanic if the batter is tagged right there.

think 3 different arm mechanics in about 2.38 sec...

If the catcher blocks the ball in the dirt, comes right up and tags the batter right away, (lets say within 2.38 seconds or so ), you probably haven't even began to say "no catch" yet, or signal safe. If you have started, obviously cut it short and call the BR out. I think the safe signal and the verbal "No catch" are for those times when it's not obvious to F2 and/or the batter that it's "strike three, no catch". The actions of both the batter and F2 will dictate what needs to to said and/or signaled.

[UmpTTS43]

Most D3K happen when the batter fully swings or checks his swing. On rare occation you have the called strike that F2 just drops. If it's a called strike, signal and vocalize the third strike, then "no catch" with safe mechanic. With a check swing senario, if you have batter going, point with appropriate hand, "yes he went" or "yes" then safe mechanic with "no catch". If you don't have him going, it is probably in your best interest to go to your partner before anyone asks. If your partner has him going then signal/vocalize third strike, give the safe mechanic with "no catch". If the batter makes a full swing, all you need to do is give the safe mechanic with "no catch".

This is what is being taught at school and at the top college clinics: signal 3rd strike if needed, use the safe mechanic with palms open facing down, and vocalize "no catch".

Mechanics have changed and are tweeked over the years. Above is the currently recognized mechanic in this situation.

I have heard some say that players and coaches misunderstood what was said. A} not your problem B} if umpires would adopt the same current accepted mechanics, coaches and players would know what the call is C} not your problem

What Top college clinics are you talking about..

Mid America teaches the way I'm describing..

Music City the same..

International the same

Advanced clinic in Houston the same...

LOL

I guess I don't know which part of the mechanics I described you disagree with. I am thinking it is the one concerning giving the safe mechanic with closed fists. All of the instructors I have dealt with, including NCAA evalualuators, will laugh you off of the field if you use that. I guess it's one small quirk that differs from area to area. As long as you signal, it should be good.

As far as too many mechanics within a short period of time, sometimes you just have to umpire. I have had this situation once in my career. R1/R2. I am in A position. Hard line drive that short hops into F3's glove just fair past first base. F3 touches first base then attempts to tag R1 returning to first who is safe. Mechanics: point fair, signal "no catch", signal out on BR, signal safe on R1. From the bench and stands it looked like point, safe, out, safe. Of course skip came out for an explanation. Once he had it the discussion was over, but it demonstrates that we must do our job in officiating the game and that can include multiple mechanics in a short amount of time.

[mstaylor]

Richvee explained it very well, if the ball shorthops the catcher and he tags the batter right away, it's just going to be the point or hammer for the strike and an out on the tag. Same shorthop and either the catcher rolls the ball or the batter starts to walk away, show the strike, safe mechanic and out on the tag. Same play, two different actions, causing two different sets of mechanics.

[hckyosgood30]

On a D3K I don't verbalize at all. I just simply make my strike mechanic then go to the safe sign. To answer you Haid's question. Yes batters are taught to listen for out/catch in order to not run, and to peak at the ball and umpire while coming out of the box. When I was playing college baseball if we didn't do this we would run laps until we learned. I agree with most that if you say "no catch" and a runner stops it can get hairy quick.

[Haid D' Salaami]

Just like rich... if it shorthops, I just give the out mechanic when BR is tagged out...if it moves in any direction,all I'm doing is saying no catch..

[NWA_UMP]

All I work is High School and lower...that being said, we are instructed to give the "safe" mechanic with closed fist...that's it. No verbal.

I can see the benefit of giving a verbal call to clarify or alert all parties involved. I don't see me doing anything other than signalling strike, signalling No Catch w/verbal "no catch". Doesn't seem to hard to me...

[mstaylor]

I have heard others say to show a safe signal with closed fists. I don't understand why the difference, I use a safe signal period. You don't show a no catch in the field with closed fists and this is really no different. Do what your association says do, I just don't get the logic.

[NWA_UMP]

Taylor...we're told to give the closed fist safe signal on ALL NO CATCHES...including outfield....

:shrug:

The only logic I see is we are using open hands for a Safe w/regards to a base...closed w/regards to the catch....

For clarification...the mechanic we are taught is to just extend our arms directly out from our shoulders with closed fist...no waving like we do with a safe call. On a safe call we are taught to bring our hand even to shoulder heigth, elbows back and extend our hand until they are in line with our shoulder...that's it...nothing more, nothing less. We don't want anyone trying for a vertical takeoff

[Haid D' Salaami]

I don't think that is a good mechanic... I have never heard of anyone teaching this, and if you gi to some areas you will be told to fix it...

[NWA_UMP]

Haid...so you're saying we are told to do an incorrect mechanic...and that I would be told to fix it?

As I stated in my original post. I work nothing higher than HS Varsity. That is what our association instructs us to do. So I'm somehow doing it wrong because why? Please explain...

[Haid D' Salaami]

Look, if your assoc is cool with then fine... I can tell you this is not taught at any of the Umpire School's, or top College Clinics....it's not really wrong, just doesnt look as good...and if your intent is to move up, they will ask you to fix things like these...

Exp.. placing your hand on the catchers back to gauage how far away you are when setting up, I do it just to make sure I'm far enough away, and it is the lighest touch, then my hand goes down, heck sometimes bet I dont touch him. A umpire whom has worked 6 regionals told me to not even do this, as it can cause a argurement later, or get into a pissing contest..all he said is it's the little tiny things that seperate the good umpires.

[mstaylor]

Haid:

I agree with your umpire buddy, don't touch catchers at all. I don't have a problem with reaching out to create space but touching is not acceptable. My son cayght and he absolutely hated umpires that did it. He was very good at working with the umpire buut he would not accept him touching. He would mention it to him, if it didn't stop he would snap on him. You could call him out on a borderline strike three and mildly aggrevate him, touch him and he would snap. He never went far enough to let a pitch hit an umpire but he didn't dig as many on problem umpires.

[JaxRolo]

I never understood be touching the Catcher thing.

There is no need to do it!

You can just look and see where you are.

(null)

[Mr Umpire]

I make my strike 3 call. Then, if I see it not caught, I signal "safe" and say "no catch". I'll have to think about the "ball is on the ground" but I think it takes too long for my preference. Not a problem yet with it. And, without good reason, I am not changing it.

My reasoning is b/c it tells the batter and catcher what to do on the play. Plus, giving the signal as well, tells them something is going on even if they don't hear me completely.

[Haid D' Salaami]

I never understood be touching the Catcher thing.

There is no need to do it!

You can just look and see where you are.

(null)

But then your taking your eyes off the pitcher..and if he balks, what are you gonna say then....lol

[NWA_UMP]

I never understood be touching the Catcher thing.

There is no need to do it!

You can just look and see where you are.

(null)

But then your taking your eyes off the pitcher..and if he balks, what are you gonna say then....lol

You seem to have an answer for everything...what's the "proper" way to set up behind F2...I don't touch him either...I step into position with one move. Right foot in the "split" and left foot in the "slot" and straight down from there....LOL

[Fittske24]

You seem to have an answer for everything...

No disrespect here.... But Haid D' Salaami is right. When the pitcher has the ball on or near the rubber there are a multitude of things the PU should be watching. This is not the time to be looking down to get your spacing from the catcher. I know it sounds like a small thing but these are the type of subtleties that seperate good umpires from the upper echelon. Once you reach the college and pro level, most if not all umpire are good umpires. Sure 99 times out of 100 you can look down and nothing will happen.....but is that one time when you do it and you miss a balk or something that you should have seen.